New helmet technology, worth keeping an eye on developments

[beginner skater]

http://www.220triathlon.com/news/new-helmet-science-could-protect-brain-better/10773.html

Thought some of you would be interested in this. Using a visco elastic  layer, presumably newly developed, as it is like dried tar

[riley876]

I'm skeptical.   Impulse (i.e. area under the Force vs Time graph) is almost (but not quite) what everyone is trying to minimise.  There's a measurement called Head Injury Criteria (HIC),  which is area under the Force² vs Time graph.   Which is supposedly a better metric,  but it's essentially the same thing in practice.   

But in the end minimising HIC (or impulse) comes down to three things:

1.  Having a foam material which isn't perfectly elastic (since that doubles the impact time, since the foam pushes back after it is compressed, instead of just staying compressed).

2.  Having thick enough foam material, so the compression force can be lowered proportionally (i.e. double the thickness, halve the forces), but still not bottom out during a hit.    Though this will tend to lengthen the impact time, but will reduce Force² much more than it increases Time.

3.  Having the right density of foam from the given impact.   Too hard and you are wasting a portion of your thickness.  Too soft and it bottoms out, massively spiking the forces (and therefore the HIC).    (BTW most polystyrene skate helmets are WAY too hard for common rink incidents & every hockey helmet I've seen is way too soft.)

Their "breakthrough" looks to only address #1.  But you can already do that with any foam that either permanently compresses (like floral foam does), or temporarily stays compressed (like memory foam does)

A real breakthrough would address #2 and #3.  And that's would be a velocity sensitive foam.   Imagine a foam that was really soft and squishy, so that in minor hits it would be really soft and squishy, but in major hits it would be hard enough to also compress almost all the way, but not quite bottom out, despite the much larger forces.   Thus utilising the available foam thickness almost totally in all cases.    Which almost never happens with current helmets in the real world.

Zenith made football helmets with air cells instead of foam which promised this, but the impact testing didn't really live up to the promise (I don't know why this is).

There's also the question of preventing the transfer of rotational accelerations,  which some motorbike helmet makers have done, e.g. outer shell that can rotate on an inner shell.   Hard to get much info on this.

[Query]

There is such a thing as overkill. Any fairly decent helmet designed to handle backfalls and temple impacts (not falls of heavy things from on top, like construction helmets) probably helps a lot. It doesn't need to be perfect to save your life, or prevent you from needing emergency surgery. Preventing concussion is nice, but you are more likely to live through that than a busted head. I just don't think it is worth spending too much time on this, or developing a helmet that is so bulky no one would wear it. Sure, someone could build a really elaborate airbag system that deploys when falls are detected, but it might create more problems than it solves. Some skaters won't wear an outfit that weighs more than a few ounces - imagine how few would wear a safety system that adds 5 or 10 pounds. Better to build a system lots of people will actually wear, that reduces the injury to more acceptable levels, than to go whole hog.

Also, you don't just want to slow the total deceleration - you want to make the pressure around most of the skull fairly uniform. E.g., pressure from behind alone will probably create tensions on the front part of the skull, which could easily create a fracture up front. Might also create sheer forces in other parts of the skull. Remember that bone is anisotropic - it is overwhelmingly stronger against compression than against tension and sheer. A lot of these tests only consider compression at the impact, which is just plain wrong.

People have tried to create numerical simulation models of skull impacts. I haven't looked at them in detail. But any model which just looks at maximum force, or maximum pressure, without considering bone's anisotropy with regards to compression, tension and sheer, is probably invalid. And for skating, at least as far as I've seen, backfalls and temple impacts are pretty much the only way head injuries occur.

And when it comes down to it, other severe injuries (like tailbone impacts, ankle sprains and strains, Achilles tendon injuries, and wrist/arm/shoulder injuries) may be a lot more likely in figure skating than head injuries.

P.S. I assume you know it isn't the weight of the foam that matters - it is compressibility. Although, carpet foam, and maybe other foam, is sometimes rated by weight/square inch to compress it (almost fully?), which confuses definitions.

[beginner skater]

There is also such a thing as ignoring a risk, because everyone does 

Horse riders can buy a self inflating waistcoat with neck collar. It attaches to the saddle and deploys when the rider leaves the saddle,.

I'm glad that people are looking into improving head protection for any sport

[riley876]

I just don't think it is worth spending too much time on this, or developing a helmet that is so bulky no one would wear it. Sure, someone could build a really elaborate airbag system that deploys when falls are detected, but it might create more problems than it solves.

I would wear an airbag system if it was reliable enough.   And not too bulky or heavy.   And not otherwise an added hazard itself.

Some skaters won't wear an outfit that weighs more than a few ounces - imagine how few would wear a safety system that adds 5 or 10 pounds. Better to build a system lots of people will actually wear, that reduces the injury to more acceptable levels, than to go whole hog.

The majority of skaters won't wear anything, no matter how good it is.    They are a lost cause, and thus ignoreable.  Personally, I'd consider 1 pound to be the maximum for a usable helmet, but then again I'm not doing anything really physically demanding.   Maybe you can't do double or triple jumps with a helmet of any kind?  I wouldn't have a clue.

I agree about maybe making a compromised system that people will actually use.  The ice halo people have the right idea.   Sure, objectively, ice halos aren't great protection, but not-great that is actually used is better than nothing.

Hockey helmets are the same compromised concept IMHO.  They have pathetically thin foam, but that's the only way hockey people would agree to wear them.

Also, you don't just want to slow the total deceleration - you want to make the pressure around most of the skull fairly uniform. E.g., pressure from behind alone will probably create tensions on the front part of the skull, which could easily create a fracture up front. Might also create sheer forces in other parts of the skull. Remember that bone is anisotropic - it is overwhelmingly stronger against compression than against tension and sheer. A lot of these tests only consider compression at the impact, which is just plain wrong.

People have tried to create numerical simulation models of skull impacts. I haven't looked at them in detail. But any model which just looks at maximum force, or maximum pressure, without considering bone's anisotropy with regards to compression, tension and sheer, is probably invalid. And for skating, at least as far as I've seen, backfalls and temple impacts are pretty much the only way head injuries occur.

Any idea what the sort of forces involves in skull fractures?  Are we talking the same ballpark as concussions?

And when it comes down to it, other severe injuries (like tailbone impacts, ankle sprains and strains, Achilles tendon injuries, and wrist/arm/shoulder injuries) may be a lot more likely in figure skating than head injuries.

And many of us take precautions against these too.  And increased risk of a other injuries is in no way indicative of a lower risk of head injury, so:  so what?

P.S. I assume you know it isn't the weight of the foam that matters - it is compressibility.

Of course.  Stress vs strain graphs are where it's at.   But this thread is technical enough already without the added complication of that thrown in.   In the real world,  for a given type of foam, heavier =~= more dense =~=  more stress for same strain.

[tstop4me]

And when it comes down to it, other severe injuries (like tailbone impacts, ankle sprains and strains, Achilles tendon injuries, and wrist/arm/shoulder injuries) may be a lot more likely in figure skating than head injuries.

This viewpoint totally overlooks the severity and the duration of various injuries (impact of various injuries on overall quality of life and long-term consequences).

Preventing concussion is nice, but you are more likely to live through that than a busted head

Have you forgotten about the tragic case of Natasha Richardson, or do you dismiss it as an outlier?  And, although figure skaters are less likely to suffer repeated concussions than athletes in contact sports such as hockey and football (concussions incurred in football have been much in the news of late), the consequences of concussions should not be downplayed.  (Note:  There has been some speculation as to whether repeated high-speed spins can cause concussions.)

Also, you don't just want to slow the total deceleration - you want to make the pressure around most of the skull fairly uniform. E.g., pressure from behind alone will probably create tensions on the front part of the skull, which could easily create a fracture up front. Might also create sheer forces in other parts of the skull. Remember that bone is anisotropic - it is overwhelmingly stronger against compression than against tension and sheer. A lot of these tests only consider compression at the impact, which is just plain wrong.
People have tried to create numerical simulation models of skull impacts. I haven't looked at them in detail. But any model which just looks at maximum force, or maximum pressure, without considering bone's anisotropy with regards to compression, tension and sheer, is probably invalid. And for skating, at least as far as I've seen, backfalls and temple impacts are pretty much the only way head injuries occur.

The brain is composed primarily of soft condensed matter and fluids.  From the studies I've read, brain damage arising from concussions occurs frequently without skull fracture.  Anisotropy in the mechanical properties of the rigid skull bones would be of concern only in instances in which skull fracture does occur.

[riley876]

And, although figure skaters are less likely to suffer repeated concussions than athletes in contact sports such as hockey and football (concussions incurred in football have been much in the news of late), the consequences of concussions should not be downplayed.

I once saw an interview with Evan Lysacek where he said he'd had no less than 17 concussions.    I willing to bet THAT will have long term consequences.

[ChristyRN]

I once saw an interview with Evan Lysacek where he said he'd had no less than 17 concussions.    I willing to bet THAT will have long term consequences.

I've had at least four, with one that landed me in ICU thisclose to surgery. Two are ice-related, one from a car accident, and one from softball. I haven't stopped driving, though I did give up softball years after the head knock. I wear a Crasche band now simply because I was told I was high risk for permanent damage if I did it again within a year. I'm outside that year, and still wearing the band. I'm debating taking it off for competition later this year, but only for that. I won't wear a helmet or anything bigger/bulkier.

I imagine the will be some consequences down the road. I've always had problems with names, but it's a little worse. Same with multiple items--I simply make more lists. On the other hand, I could still be 70+ pounds heavier and saner. I'll take the risks, injuries and all.

[tstop4me]

There is also such a thing as ignoring a risk, because everyone does 

Horse riders can buy a self inflating waistcoat with neck collar. It attaches to the saddle and deploys when the rider leaves the saddle,.

I'm glad that people are looking into improving head protection for any sport

This brings to mind a heart-warming segment I saw on TV a while ago.  Someone invented an emergency parachute to be worn by skiers/snowboarders; it could be deployed in the event of an avalanche to keep the skier/snowboarder from being buried alive.  One competitor balked at the pricetag, but her parents bought her one as a gift.  The very first time she tried it on, sure enough she was caught in an avalanche during her run.  She triggered the device, it worked, and she was rescued.  That present from mommy and daddy saved their girl's life.  All of this was caught on video.

[Query]

I think the ice halo is a reasonable compromise too, for those who want it.

Here is what I mean by real overkill: picture a full body airbag. Covers everything but holes for breathing and sight. Bulky enough to decelerate slowly.

Deploys if your head drops more than 6". (No deep knee bends. No sit spins. Etc.)

Or even better, it is always deployed. So what if you can't recognize the skater, see what they are doing, or guess their gender?

It can also stiffen around the most vulnerable points of the spine. (Note: Reinforcing specific bones, like wrist protectors, almost always increases the stress on nearby body parts, like joints and other body parts in the same kinetic chain. (See any athletic training manual.) But if the airbag goes out far enough, and is soft enough, there won't be enough stress to damage joints.

Near complete protection! Say, around 10 pounds.

Needless to say, virtually no serious figure skater would wear it!

Yet, typical hockey players carry a lot more weight than that in protective gear. It's often hard to tell which players are male and which are female, etc.

I've spoken to a number of hockey coaches who've never seen a serious injury on their teams when players were in full protective gear. (I'm including full-head helmets, not the ones that just cover the eyes, etc., like NHL players use. And I'm not talking about leagues where "checking" is allowed. Checking isn't sport. Checking is bloody warfare.) (However, some rinks don't require full protective gear in stick and puck practices, and injuries result.)

A decent full-face hockey helmet isn't well designed for figure skating. But it's still reasonably well designed for it's intended purpose. Which is to stop hockey pucks, and, possibly and much less frequently, hockey sticks and hockey skate blades. According to the hockey coaches I've spoken to, they and other hockey gear do an excellent job at what they are designed for. Bear in mind that virtually all hockey players spend a lot of time practicing falls, and are therefore better trained at falling without injury than many figure skaters. So they don't especially need helmets that protect their heads from falls.

[tstop4me]

A decent full-face hockey helmet isn't well designed for figure skating. But it's still reasonably well designed for it's intended purpose. Which is to stop hockey pucks, and, possibly and much less frequently, hockey sticks and hockey skate blades. According to the hockey coaches I've spoken to, they and other hockey gear do an excellent job at what they are designed for. Bear in mind that virtually all hockey players spend a lot of time practicing falls, and are therefore better trained at falling without injury than many figure skaters. So they don't especially need helmets that protect their heads from falls.

Well, all I can say is that I hope that the Hockey Equipment Certification Council (HECC) and the various sports organizations that require HECC certification for equipment used by their players do not share your view.  In light of the recent discussions of the long-term impact of concussions incurred in football, I don't think they will share your view.  I'm not in favor of rampant litigation, but sometimes litigation leads to people doing the right things.

Last year, Virginia Tech tested 37 different hockey helmets for effectiveness in mitigating concussions.  On a scale of 1 – 5 stars (where 5 stars is the most effective), only one scored a 3.  The rest were lower.  After the test results were published, the CEO of Bauer gave an interview.  He admitted that HECC certification did not consider mitigation of concussions at all; it primarily addressed mitigation of skull fractures.  [I don't have access to the ASTM standards that HECC complies with, so I can't confirm this directly.]  But it is my hope that the research at Virginia Tech (and elsewhere) will lead to industry standards specifically addressing the mitigation of concussions.  It is my further hope that HECC will then adopt these new standards (in addition to existing ones addressing skull fracture) and that various sports organizations will require the new HECC certifications.

Yes, learning to fall properly is important for minimizing injury.  But there is a need for a proper helmet to protect a player during the learning stage.  And learning to fall properly is mainly effective when there is some advance notice.  But hockey players do get hooked from behind.  And hockey players do get checked into the boards.  And figure skaters do catch their blade against a coin frozen on the ice or a rut or a bump.  And figure skaters do get creamed by pee-wee hockey players playing tag.  And figure skaters (even Olympians) do get creamed by fellow figure skaters.

There is risk in most sports (or nearly any activity in life) that the participant must accept.  The issue is not a total prevention of injury, but an understanding of the risk involved and a reasonable mitigation of injury, consistent with being able to perform the sport. 

I'm strongly in favor of research into brain damage caused by concussions and the development of new materials and mechanical designs for improved hockey helmets.  I'm hoping that some of these advances can be applied to helmets for figure skaters.   The day may never come when elite figure skaters wear helmets during competitions.  But maybe for practices.  And for less stellar figure skaters, certainly advantageous as routine.

[riley876]

Personally, I'm not in favor of any compulsory anything (it always seems to lead to perverse outcomes).   I just want access to better technology - for myself to use.

[beginner skater]

I remember when seatbelts for driving became compulsory in the UK. Nobody wore them before, now almost everybody does. I guess it's saved lives and injuries. I had a friend at the time who was a very bad driver. Every time I rode in his car, after 10 mins he would slam on the brakes, due to lack of anticipation, and I would wish that I had the nerve to strap myself in, but it seemed rude. I was relieved when it became compulsory and now I do it out of habit.

Wrt riding helmets, they are gradually increasing the areas where they are compulsory, and improving required standards, and making inroads into micro cultures who have been resistant.

So while I agree Riley that I have never liked compulsory anything much, some times it can be good.

Great post tstop, I agree 

[tstop4me]

Personally, I'm not in favor of any compulsory anything (it always seems to lead to perverse outcomes).   I just want access to better technology - for myself to use.

The problem you face, however, is this:  with some exceptions, better technology never gets developed unless there is a sufficiently large market for it.  With respect to specialized safety gear, a sufficiently large market often does not develop unless there is a regulatory mandate. 

[Query]

With respect to specialized safety gear, a sufficiently large market often does not develop unless there is a regulatory mandate.

Unless you make your own?

E.g., start with a substantially oversize helmet, and glue in extra closed cell foam, everywhere, until you have a uniformly snug fit.

I bet you could do it!

[tstop4me]

Unless you make your own?

E.g., start with a substantially oversize helmet, and glue in extra closed cell foam, everywhere, until you have a uniformly snug fit.

I bet you could do it!

The issue is not whether you can jury-rig some sort of helmet from existing parts and materials to mitigate concussion; the issue is development of better technology (e.g., better materials and mechanical designs not currently available) to develop a better helmet overall than is currently available (e.g., more compact, more lightweight, more breathable, higher mitigation of concussion risk, ... ).

[riley876]

Unless you make your own?

E.g., start with a substantially oversize helmet, and glue in extra closed cell foam, everywhere, until you have a uniformly snug fit.

I have done exactly this, and I am confident it is a major step up from commercially available standards compliant helmets, at least for common skating falls.   

If I was forced by law (or rink rules) to wear such a standards compliant helmet, I would have to accept a major step down in safety.  Such would be one perverse consequence of such a law.    I also wouldn't be able to wear any sort of airbag helmet (though I don't think they're good enough yet anyway).

I would pay for a better commercial helmet if it contained better tech foam/air cells than I can cobble together.   But that's not going to happen with the current crop of standards.  Which are ridiculously biased to saving your life from killer 6.5m/s 250/300G hits, and ignore everything else.   Any old 2 cent chunk of expanded polystyrene can meet this standard, so why would there be reason to innovate?    See, laws don't necessarily help innovation.   In fact they're often implemented as a weapon to shut down innovation from competitors.

People seem to be spellbound by the presence of a standards sticker.   As if it's a blessing from God himself.    Extremely few people,  even those who are otherwise technically inclined, ever question if the standard is suitable for the activity. 

[beginner skater]

Was it you Riley who talked about being able to balance concerns about safety with feeling silly? If so, where does this helmet lie, and do you wear it routinely on ice?

[riley876]

Was it you Riley who talked about being able to balance concerns about safety with feeling silly? If so, where does this helmet lie, and do you wear it routinely on ice?

Me?  I look odd at all times anyway, lol.   There is no choice.  I am a freak whatever I do.   Adding a helmet and chunky derby knee/elbow/wrist pads doesn't materially make me any odder, so I'm happy to suit up and enjoy the confidence boost.    Essentially I look like a very lost roller derby player    And yes, I wear the whole kit, the whole time on skates.   None of the 3 coaches I've had private lessons from have cared either.    Might be different if I had aspirations to compete or even test, but I don't.  So literally no one cares.

But my helmet itself doesn't look unusual (vs any other helmet).  It's the shell of a commercial skate/bike helmet (Pyrme V2), with the uselessly hard polystyrene ripped out and replaced.   It looks identical to a standard one unless you look at the foam closely.

Figure skating is, at it's heart, a conformity contest.   So I certainly see why most participants are very concerned about "the look".   I couldn't conform, even if I wanted to, so I'm way beyond those sort of worries.

Actually I do get a slight kick out of turning up to a public session, donning all my "beginners gear",  putting on my "rental skates" and going out and out-skating some little Miss Suzy Snowflake in her pristine Chloe Noel twist pants and perfect shiny new white boots.

[beginner skater]

Whenever i need a boost, I will think of the lost roller derby player outskating the ice princesses 
I always think of NZ as a conservative and conforming place, is that wrong?
You really still in rental skates?

[riley876]

Whenever i need a boost, I will think of the lost roller derby player outskating the ice princesses 
I always think of NZ as a conservative and conforming place, is that wrong?

Probably only slightly less conservative than the US or UK, but AFAICT figure skating everywhere is inherently conservative and conforming.   I suspect only ballroom dancing is more so.

You really still in rental skates?

Definitely not.   Actually Wilson blades bolted to the bottom of some inline skate boots.  Which are plastic, and coloured in ample shades of gray white and blue, and therefore, don't look like leather figure boots at all.  Therefore automatically pegged by just about everyone as "rental skates" (or at least, just as good as).     I prefer them over leather boots because a) they have articulated cuffs and b) I can adjust the fit radically to suit my weirdo feet and orthotics. c) the ankle support never breaks down d) no blisters ever!

[beginner skater]

I liked the blue plastic rental boots, although the blades were often blunt. I liked the ratchet buckle system which allowed quick and tailored adjustment for my relatively normal feet.

I bought my own boots mainly for hygiene reasons, didnt want to share sweaty boots with the rest of the world.I did contemplate getting black boots so they wouldnt show the dirt, but decided to go with the flow and get white. With pink blade guards. (although my soakers are black & white skulls  )  And when they came they were sooo cute, I nearly put a piccie on facebook. I finally switched to them when one of the rental boots had deformed interleaving near the tongue which was so painful I had to switch boots in the middle of a  lesson. And I still miss the speed & accuracy with which I canould adjust my boots tightness.

But I guess the downside is you cant upgrade the stiffness of your boots?

[riley876]

But I guess the downside is you cant upgrade the stiffness of your boots?

Lateral stiffness is never an issue with the articulated cuff (i.e. you have all the stiffness in the world).  But yes, fore/aft stiffness is generally fixed on inline skates, though the higher end freestyle/slalom skates (e.g Seba FR1 etc) have adjustable pivot points that allow a couple of different stiffnesses.  But the boot I'm using for my ice skates isn't quite that flash.   

I liked the blue plastic rental boots, although the blades were often blunt.

Ah yes, "Death Wellies" as the brits call them.

I liked the ratchet buckle system which allowed quick and tailored adjustment for my relatively normal feet.

My actual inline skates have the coolest ratchet buckles.  You tighten them with a little ratchet lever.  And you can loosen them exactly one notch at a time by pressing a little tab.   It's appeals to my inner engineer greatly.

I did contemplate getting black boots so they wouldnt show the dirt, but decided to go with the flow and get white.

Ah pity!  Any figure skater willing to get the "wrong" coloured boot would have my undying respect for all of eternity (And no, Pasha, lavender doesn't count).  From a fashion point of view, I really don't like the white boot thing.   Who wears white boots in real life?   I suppose at least it's better than the artistic roller skating fashion of tan over-the-boot tights, that makes everyone look like they've got hobbit feet.  I *cringe* every time I see it.

[Query]

Hobbit feet - boots that look like oversize bare harry feet - sounds like a fun idea!

[riley876]

Oddly though, white skates are quite the "in" thing in aggressive inline skating (i.e. half pipes, bowls, rail grinds type skating).  Guys and gals both.   

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=white%20boots&tbs=imgo:1#tbs=imgo:1&tbm=isch&q=white+aggressive+skates

Any mention of Sonja Henie is likely to be met with blank stares in this crowd.