US Figure Skating Governing Council News

[sarahspins]

And, they include spirals.  (The older I get, the harder a spiral becomes.  Can kill my lower back, causing sciatica nerve pain and absolutely no skating when that flares up.)  I really hope the "adult section" thinks hard about spirals at the bronze, adult level.  They are asking for two lengths of the ice, on edges.  That's alot of repeated leg lifting.

Believe it or not, the silver spiral pattern used to be the one from pre-pre (straight line spirals).  There also used to be a stupidly difficult (for the level) 3 turn pattern on pre-bronze that is now gone since they moved the pre-pre spirals to pre-bronze and put the prelim spirals on silver.  It was that dumb 3 turn pattern that kept me from testing pre-bronze for like 2 years, then they went and changed it right about when I was finally ready to test it.  I run through that 3 turn pattern every once in a while, and I still find it very difficult for a supposedly low level pattern, and I've passed my silver moves.

The funny thing is, each time they make significant changes, they swear they won't make any more - but then more seem to keep coming.  It's frustrating since it can often take us adults more than a few months to get a test level ready to put in front of the judges - the changes to the silver test back in 2011 meant that I didn't test my silver moves until 2013, because it took me that long to get the strength and endurance to actually skate that pattern strong enough to put it in front of the judges.  Now when I look back that seems like an exceptionally long time to have worked on it, compared to the amount of work required to maintain it (I run through the whole pattern on average once a session, as part of my "warm up"), but it's the reality of skating as an adult - we just don't have the bodies that the little kids do, and I'm not even "that" old yet.

I tried to skate through the changes to the power circles on gold yesterday - YIKES.  Granted I've been working on Gold for a year now, so I'm quite comfortable with the moves as they were, but I can see that it's going to take a significant amount of practice time to get as comfortable with the new patterns, and it may be a while before they are as strong as the old ones - and I wasn't planning on trying to find a test session this summer or enough ice time to practice for a test this summer, I had already talked to my coach about waiting until fall, so the changes sort of suck for me.  There may still be a chance I can test them again before the changes go into effect, but I'm not sure I'd opt to try if I could.

[ChristyRN]

That stupid three turn pattern on pre bronze was the main reason I got a "retry" on my first attempt. It took me seven years to get the courage to try again.

[aussieskater]

There is no such thing as a negative score....

What minus sign?

I don't know whether a "negative" overall score is still possible, but it certainly was a few years ago.  I still have in my skate bag a copy of a judges protocol sheet of an event at a well-respected adult competition, and the last-placed competitor in that event did indeed end up with a negative overall score (ie: they would have earned more points by not stepping on the ice).  It must have been extremely demoralising for the skater to see that score.

After seeing the protocol sheet, I wondered if the powers that be might consider changing the rules to require that the final score be not less than zero, at least in non-elite events, but haven't seen anything in any rules to facilitate it.

[Nate]

I don't know whether a "negative" overall score is still possible, but it certainly was a few years ago.  I still have in my skate bag a copy of a judges protocol sheet of an event at a well-respected adult competition, and the last-placed competitor in that event did indeed end up with a negative overall score (ie: they would have earned more points by not stepping on the ice).  It must have been extremely demoralising for the skater to see that score.

After seeing the protocol sheet, I wondered if the powers that be might consider changing the rules to require that the final score be not less than zero, at least in non-elite events, but haven't seen anything in any rules to facilitate it.

I suppose that if you fall enough the deductions can make a score negative, now that I think about it, at the lower levels.

I don't see why they should change the rules cause of that though. That's the skater's problem. Outside of mandatory deductions it's virtually impossible to score negative in IJS.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk

[axelwylie]

I sent an email to the adult skating committee (found their info on the USFSA website) and got a reply back today. I addressed the concerns that I and a lot of other adult skaters were having around the age group proposal, and the basic response back was, "too bad."

They said that they noticed a shift in "the bell curve" so they had to consolidate the age groups. And said the would likely do it again in the near future as the bell curve shifts.

I also talked about the possibility of moving all events to IJS and they shot that down quickly. They said that skaters in the lower levels would potentially receive no points for their programs if that was the case. But I agree with what someone said earlier on this post - that might not be a bad thing because it would almost force people to learn their elements correctly.

I would encourage you all to voice your opinions to the committee as well. Please report back if they reply!

[blue111moon]

As far as I know there is no limit on how many fall deductions someone could get.  Is there a minimum score rule?

As an accountant for competitions, I've seen some pretty low IJS scores but never a negative.  As a competitor, I do remember a woman in a Bronze event in Europe whose total score was something like 0.38.  I suppose technicall a negative technical score would be possible, if there were enough falls and deductions.

[Nate]

As an accountant for competitions, I've seen some pretty low IJS scores but never a negative.  As a competitor, I do remember a woman in a Bronze event in Europe whose total score was something like 0.38.  I suppose technicall a negative technical score would be possible, if there were enough falls and deductions.

I don't think there is a cap on the number of fall deductions (or others, like music under/over time, lyrics in music when not allowed, finishing behind the music, etc.) you can have, however it's pretty rare for anyone to score below a 0 in TES and it's almost impossible to do that in PCS unless you basically go on the ice do your elements and then stand around until the music is over doing nothing in between.

Personally I think PCS is judged in too much of a "rank" order .

A skater can skate basically the same steps in Gold and Masters/Intermediate and their PCS will go up in the higher level simply because they're in a higher level.  If the judges judge by the criteria strictly, the risk of scoring so low will not be as high at the lower levels, a since even many Silver-level programs I've seen shouldn't have an issue scoring Almost in the 2's for TR/SS and a little higher in the more subjective/performance-oriented PCS criteria if they have a decent program.  I guess the silver lining is that we aren't paying thousands for a choreographer :-P

The whole point of PCS is supposed to allow a skater who has weak skating skills to still capitalize on their better performance qualities, and one who has not a great performer to capitalize on their better technical arsenal/SS/TR - while enforcing precision and correctness on the pure technical elements (Correct Turns/Edges, Proper Jump Take-offs/Landings, Checked/Proper spin positions and revolutions, etc.) but the judges seem intent (at basically all levels of competition) on boxing all of the categories into one narrow corridor.

[Neverdull44]

I had started the pre-juv moves in the field practices for a few months, but went on to more important things (my first child).  it was the three-turn pattern that was giving me fits.  Backward inside three turns.    I took a group class last year, and ended up learning them finally alot better.   I could do the pre-juv test, but I'm 45 years young.  I think it would take me 6 to 8 months of practice.   I thought the adult testing was more appropriate.  Glad to hear that those spirals are not until Silver MIF!    Whether adult or regular, after bronze MIF, I think it's going to take me 6 months to a year to pass each test.  As adults with jobs/families, it's hard to skate every day.

[Kitten23]

I've been working on my Silver Moves for so long, I remember the old Silver Moves before they were changed.  My best move was put on the old Gold test and then it went away totally (although I think it might be on the Intermediate test).  All these changes and they STILL won't get rid of that stupid 8 step outside mohawk.  Grumble, grumble.

[sarahspins]

My best move was put on the old Gold test and then it went away totally (although I think it might be on the Intermediate test).

Was that the inside slide chassé pattern?  That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver   I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern. 

[Kitten23]

Was that the inside slide chassé pattern?  That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver   I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern.

YES!!! It was the inside slide chasse (how'd you get that accent mark on your post?).  I learned that and got it immediately.  Then what do they do? They take it off the Silver test.  Don't remember what they added in its place, but I found that one so easy.

How can I start a campaign to get rid of the outside mohawks on the Silver test.  I'm not kidding. I hate those things.

[nicklaszlo]

Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.

[icedancer]

Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.

I agree!  In the dances you see these turns first at Bronze and then again at Pre-Silver (albeit only in the CCW direction) but Silver seems just right for this move.

[techskater]

Was that the inside slide chassé pattern?  That's my favorite on intermediate and I think it was once on Novice... while it was still on Silver   I would rather see them move that one back to gold instead of adding in the "new" intermediate power circle pattern.

Slide chasse pattern was never on Novice.  The "old" Novice patterns were the first move as end patterns for perimeter stroking (moves 1+2), a nasty old spiral pattern, and the bracket three bracket.  I was glad to see those go.  Slide chasse went from Silver to Gold then out of the adult test track altogether

[Kitten23]

Outside mohawks in the silver moves make a logical progression of turn difficulty.

Perhaps, but I have closed hips and am a bit pigeon toed, so according to my coach, my outside mohawks are never right.  Also, I took a really, really bad fall on a mohawk and I think that may be in the back of my mind. (Think hairline cheek fracture, mild concussion and biting through your bottom lip)

[CaraSkates]

Slide chasse pattern was never on Novice.  The "old" Novice patterns were the first move as end patterns for perimeter stroking (moves 1+2), a nasty old spiral pattern, and the bracket three bracket.  I was glad to see those go.  Slide chasse went from Silver to Gold then out of the adult test track altogether

I loved that spiral pattern!! I passed Novice two weeks before the changes - the first two moves were an endurance test - four full laps of the rink! I was happy to see the bracket/3/bracket go though, I still have the bruises from falling on that.

Perhaps, but I have closed hips and am a bit pigeon toed, so according to my coach, my outside mohawks are never right.  Also, I took a really, really bad fall on a mohawk and I think that may be in the back of my mind. (Think hairline cheek fracture, mild concussion and biting through your bottom lip)

I gave myself a concussion/broke my arm on 8-step mohawk so I feel your pain - for me, I just had to do them over and over till I stopped worrying about hurting them. I figured once I passed the move, never again. Then they showed up in the dances....and now I don't think about it at all. I also feel like the 8-step is more about cadence and even pushes then a perfect outside mohawk - at least my dance coach is pickier about the mohawks now!

[tazsk8s]

I gave myself a concussion/broke my arm on 8-step mohawk so I feel your pain - for me, I just had to do them over and over till I stopped worrying about hurting them. I figured once I passed the move, never again.

That 8 step is...yikes. Add me to the broke-a-bone-while-working-on-the-8-step club (wrist). Mine didn't even happen on the mohawk...it was the stupid steps afterward. I was trying to sit back on my blade a bit so as to get off my toepicks, sat too far back and caught a heel and WHAM. That was 5 years ago. Haven't tried the 8 step since. I'm undecided about my future with MITF testing since I'm pretty much stuck, so I don't intend to try it again anytime soon, either.

[Doubletoe]

Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?

If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.

I realize it's a little late to be responding to this post, and I am not representing the Adult Committee in any way, but I was present at the meeting at A.N. and this is one of the changes that was explained and greeted with a very positive response.  These wording changes to the adult tests in the rulebook were to make sure judges did NOT judge adults more strictly than they are supposed to.  Since a lot of judges aren't very familiar with the adult tests and adult passing standards, these updated descriptions give the judges references to the equivalent standard track test to give them perspective and an understanding of the quality level expected.  Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters. Even the word "good" was taken out in reference to edges, since to some judges, "good" means Intermediate or Novice quality.  Also, the adult passing mark remains lower than the standard track for each of these moves and the age 50+ passing mark is even lower.  We are definitely not being held to the same standards as the standard track testers.  The new wording was simply designed to describe the adult test expectations in terms the judges already understand.

I think the best change of all was that the words "in recognizable sit position" were added to the Adult Bronze Freeskate test to eliminate any misunderstanding by the judges, some of whom have been assuming an IJS-quality sit spin is expected because there were no instructions to the contrary.  All of these changes should help judges judge adult tests with the appropriate expectations, resulting in more adults passing their tests starting this summer.

As for the MIF test elements changing, I groan every time it happens, since we adults often work on a test for several years before passing it and changes really throw a wrench in the works!  Unfortunately, the standard track MIF keep changing and that forces changes to the adult tests.  I would personally love to see the adult MIF left alone for the next 5 years. . .

[sarahspins]

I would personally love to see the adult MIF left alone for the next 5 years. . .

I think we all would!

I am happy to report though, that while skating through the "new" power circle patterns last week left me feeling incredible defeated, this week things were MUCH better... like night and day better, so I don't think those changes are going to be especially problematic for anyone already working on gold.

An added bonus to the intermediate changes is that gold and intermediate now share 3 moves in common, and the hardest parts of the intermediate test (which for me was the spiral pattern, and the outside twizzles) are now gone.  Now I feel like I will absolutely be ready to test intermediate once I get past gold.

[tazsk8s]

I realize it's a little late to be responding to this post, and I am not representing the Adult Committee in any way, but I was present at the meeting at A.N. and this is one of the changes that was explained and greeted with a very positive response.  These wording changes to the adult tests in the rulebook were to make sure judges did NOT judge adults more strictly than they are supposed to.  Since a lot of judges aren't very familiar with the adult tests and adult passing standards, these updated descriptions give the judges references to the equivalent standard track test to give them perspective and an understanding of the quality level expected. 

Thanks for explaining the intent behind the wording changes. The only thing that still scares me - a LOT, actually, is that the moves standards in my area are pretty highly inflated. I spent a lot of time watching Prelim MITF videos on Youtube before I tested, and there are a number of them in other locations that passed that would have never passed here. Toepushing, steppy crossovers instead of stroking, lack of control transitioning the spirals from one side to another, and general scratchy-ness were all things I got dinged on, but all of these things showed up in these supposedly passing tests. So for the judges in my area to be instructed to equate anything to the kids levels, in any way, shape or form...it's hard not to be concerned, at least here. Still thinking testing out of the area may be my best option.

Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters.

I don't know if I've ever seen the difference between "power" and "continuous flow and strength" defined. Anyone have any input on this?

I think the best change of all was that the words "in recognizable sit position" were added to the Adult Bronze Freeskate test to eliminate any misunderstanding by the judges, some of whom have been assuming an IJS-quality sit spin is expected because there were no instructions to the contrary.

That is definitely good news. I took my bronze FS eons ago...right after they changed the structure and added Pre-Bronze, and that's what the expectation was then. I remember getting a comment that mine was "high", but the test still passed. I thought I also saw that they modified the revolutions on the combo spin on Silver, so when and if (ha ha) I ever pass enough moves tests to be able to test Silver FS, this one might be doable.

Thanks again. Guess it's "wait and see" time.

[sarahspins]

Meanwhile, the new adult test wording eliminates the use of the words "power" and "posture", since both are more difficult for adults to achieve than for younger skaters.

Did it?  Because I'm looking at Page 77 of the meeting book and it certainly looks like it lists "Focus: Power" under both of the new power circle moves under Adult Gold.  I remember the old/current one had "strength and continuous flow" as the focus.

[irenar5]

Is the moves change a done deal or do they still need to vote on it?

[FigureSpins]

Is the moves change a done deal or do they still need to vote on it?

The pattern changes are up for vote at GC, so speak to your club rep / send in proxy (indiv. members) if you object.

The wording changes to the adult moves descriptions are a done deal.

[irenar5]

When is the voting happening?

[Clarice]

Governing Council is always in early May, this year May 1 - 4.  All the information is on the USFS web site - www.usfigureskating.org.  Governing Council information is in the Members Only section of the site.  All USFS members should apply for passwords - there's no charge, but it can take a few days for the request to be processed.  Other information, such as the Rule Book, is available on the main site for anyone to access.