US Figure Skating Governing Council News

[FigureSpins]

More info and videos!  http://www.usfsa.org/shell.asp?sid=49843

[tazsk8s]

Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?

That's what I'm afraid of. It's bad enough that my area has one of the hardest standards in general for moves tests. I've seen so many Youtube videos of moves tests (kids and adults) that apparently passed according to the person who posted them, that wouldn't even be close here. And the judges pretty much judge the adult tests here on the kids' standard anyway. If they're formalizing this...I'm screwed.

If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.

I couldn't agree more.

[ChristyRN]

I moved up to Class IV today. In July, I get demoted back to Class III. How exciting! Guess I better aim to pass Bronze moves before September since it's what I've been working on since last year.

Do we lose the "master's" qualification for testing? It lowers the passing average from 2.7 to 2.5. At 51, I can use all the help I can get, especially if I have to start over learning new patterns.

[icedancer]

I am trying to wrap my head around this and wondering what the thought process is with both the "New Move" and dropping and altering some of the old Moves.  What were they thinking???

My guess is that the forward loops and the outside twizzles were too hard.

The BI 8s are hard.

Waltz 8 is too hard to be on Pre-pre (although a friend and fellow judge pointed out that this was on the Preliminary Figure Test so why is it too hard for Pre-Pre? - and no, there was no pre-pre figure test...) -

I am in the process of making a table comparing the levels of the Moves.  To answer a question from a previous poster - the adult Moves are all over the place - the Pre-Bronze has Moves from Pre-Pre, and Preliminary, Adult Bronze has moves from Preliminary and Pre-juv, etc.  so honestly the judges can't expect the same on some moves as they are on the equivalent standard test but it will be hard to sort out when you are judging.

And yeah, what about the Masters tests?

I could see getting rid of those supplemental tests - I don't think anyone in our area even knew they existed!

[nicklaszlo]

Am I understanding this correctly: The adult MITF standards are now the same as the kids standards?

If so, they've just killed the adult testing program for people over 40 and probably killed it totally for adult learners. Why bother having 'adult' tests if the standards are the same.

It appears the passing scores are unchanged, so in practice the adult tests and standard tests have been and will continue to be approximately the same.  "Killed it totally" is hyperbolic.

My reading of this is that some of the adult AND standard tests are being made easier, and some arbitrary changes are being made.  The reasoning given does not always have to do with difficulty.

Personally, if the intermediate spirals are eliminated that will encourage me to keep taking the adult tests because I will never be very flexible.  Also, I already suffered through the silver spirals.

I am about to sign up for my gold moves test (before the change).  I think the proposed change to the circle eight will make the test easier.  The shortened power circles will also be easier.

[nicklaszlo]

Guess I better aim to pass Bronze moves before September since it's what I've been working on since last year.

There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves.  Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.

[AgnesNitt]

There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves.  Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.

That 'slightly' different wording is what I'm concerned about.

TR 25.09 Adult Pre-Bronze Moves in the Field Test
Expectations for this adult standard test reflect a passing average that aligns with the pre-preliminary moves in the field test. The purpose of this test is to encourage beginning adult skaters to learn the fundamentals of ice skating. No great deal of technical ability, carriage or flow is expected. Candidates must show knowledge of the steps, fairly good edges and some evidence of good form.

That indicates to me that adults are expected to pass standards (including scores) that are equal to the kids scores. That will make testing more difficult for adult testers over 40 (maybe 30). If USFSA wants to kill adult skating, they've picked a good way to do it.

[icedancer]

So here is my table comparing the Standard Moves structure to the Adult Moves.  I hope it makes sense -

I have color-coded the Moves - the Standard Moves are on the left and the Adult on the Right -

What I see from looking at this is generally Moves are either at the same level or one level down from the Standard moves (except in Adult Silver which are all over the place).  This tells me as a judge that I can accept a slightly lower standard if the Adult Moves that are at a lower level than the equivalent standard move.  There are a few cases where the Move is at a higher level (for instance: Forward O and I spirals - so as a judge - what to do?).

Open the attachment to see the table.

[irenar5]

I plan on testing Adult Gold MITF soon and I am definitely happy about dropping the intermediate spiral pattern- so hard to do on sessions! 

No more FO twizzles!!! They were pretty much the sticking point for my future intermediate test!

And loops... I started learning my loops almost a  year ago in preparation for the novice moves some day, because they are so difficult.   But, having practiced them made me control my blade so much better.  I even have 2 different loops in my Bronze freestyle program now.   Not that I am sad about letting them go by any means :-)

[icedancer]

And loops... I started learning my loops almost a  year ago in preparation for the novice moves some day, because they are so difficult.   But, having practiced them made me control my blade so much better.  I even have 2 different loops in my Bronze freestyle program now.   Not that I am sad about letting them go by any means :-)

I was speaking with another judge yesterday and we were sad to see the loops go because of that awesome control they teach.  Difficult but the skaters that can do them have really learned a great skill.

[nicklaszlo]

That indicates to me that adults are expected to pass standards (including scores) that are equal to the kids scores.

The adult and standard track passing scores below the intermediate level have been and will continue to be the same. 

[ChristyRN]

There are no changes to the bronze moves themselves.  Just slightly different wording in the instructions for judges.

So the bronze moves aren't changing to the preliminary? I'm confused. It totally makes sense for them to match (with a lower passing standard), but why change them now? Again.

[icedancer]

So the bronze moves aren't changing to the preliminary? I'm confused. It totally makes sense for them to match (with a lower passing standard), but why change them now? Again.

Bronze Moves are not changing.

The wording in the description has changed to reflect that they are to be judged at the same numerical standard as the Preliminary MITF test.

[tazsk8s]

What I see from looking at this is generally Moves are either at the same level or one level down from the Standard moves (except in Adult Silver which are all over the place).  This tells me as a judge that I can accept a slightly lower standard if the Adult Moves that are at a lower level than the equivalent standard move.  There are a few cases where the Move is at a higher level (for instance: Forward O and I spirals - so as a judge - what to do?).

Thanks for putting the table together.  I haven't retried the Silver test since they changed to the prelim spirals, so I can't say how they're judging it compared to the standard track. But I did get below a passing score on my "invited to retry" Prelim test a few weeks ago, and the passing mark for Silver is even higher...not happening in this lifetime.

I really, really think it would have made a lot more sense to not mix up the moves and just have an Adult passing standard, and if they wanted, a Masters standard. Easier on the judges who have their passing standard defined in their head, and what a .2 below might be like. Easier on the coaches for the same reason. Better for the skaters because the progression is more logical. Yes, it would have meant that adults would have had to do the dreaded alternating 3's on preliminary, which completely disappeared from the adult track after making a brief appearance at Pre-Bronze (which was a REALLY weird place to put it).  But at least then we'd be prepared for the forward/backward 3's on Silver, and having to do them .2 below standard track would at least help get through them. I can't say I'm particularly happy about the new judges' instructions either...my take on it is they are pretty much eliminating the leeway adults were supposed to be getting.

[icedancer]

Thanks for putting the table together.

You're welcome.  I'm hoping my color-coding made sense.

[sk8lady]

I wonder if USFS would think about having two separate testing tracks for adults, one for the people they REALLY want involved, those at higher levels who skated as kids and are in Masters or Gold, or headed there, and one for people like me, who started as older adults and have busted their tuchases (tuchasii?!) and spent thousands of dollars on ice, lessons, memberships, tests, dues, and competitions to get most of the way to the Silver level (Silver moves passed, free will be next test).

I know I'm not a great skater but I've worked hard under difficult circumstances (little or no ice seven months of the year) to get where I am in my fifties. If nothing else, USFS should recognize us as a source of possible income rather than devoting more and more energy encouraging the highest level and youngest adult skaters.

Changing the age ranges will not save the LOCs money at AN, from the group numbers I saw at this year's AN, and will discourage skaters in their 50's and up from competition unless they skated as kids or have fabulous genetics. The recommendations don't reflect that a large number of competitors, for example, in Bronze Free were at the oldest ranges--15 in 4 and 12 in 5, with 16 in 3, 13 in 2, and 5 in 1; or that there were 22 competitors in Silver Dramatic Showcase 4, with a number of them being at Silver rather than their freestyle Bronze level because of ice dance qualifications. Although I would benefit from this change by the next time I go to AN, as it will be when I'm in the youngest age group of the oldest group, I think it's a poor idea if there is any idea of encouraging older adults to attend AN and enjoy the competition experience.

I don't see how moving the age ranges around saves anyone money unless the hope is that fewer older adults will enter events such as Freestyle when they realize they have to compete against someone 15 years younger than they are. Ten years makes a big difference in what your body can do when you get past 40.

[icedancer]

I wonder if USFS would think about having two separate testing tracks for adults, one for the people they REALLY want involved, those at higher levels who skated as kids and are in Masters or Gold, or headed there, and one for people like me, who started as older adults and have busted their tuchases (tuchasii?!) and spent thousands of dollars on ice, lessons, memberships, tests, dues, and competitions to get most of the way to the Silver level (Silver moves passed, free will be next test).

I know I'm not a great skater but I've worked hard under difficult circumstances (little or no ice seven months of the year) to get where I am in my fifties. If nothing else, USFS should recognize us as a source of possible income rather than devoting more and more energy encouraging the highest level and youngest adult skaters.

I LOVE this idea - I have been thinking for a long while that we actually need separate Moves for adults (or maybe as you say - just some adults) -- I have been working on a series of moves that an adult can do, do well and will make them prettier skaters without being so difficult as to discourage their doing - let alone testing.

Although I did skate as a kid and have passed Silver Dances there are certainly limitations as I age.  I have pretty much given up the idea of ever testing again - except maybe partnered dances (and get some more Pre-Golds under my belt) - but it would be nice to work on and perform some other Moves for judges - solo.

Some of my skating friends have gone back to get their solo dances - starting at the beginning with the Dutch Waltz - this is another way to test yourself - IF you are dance-inclined and have dance coaches in your area.  It is great to watch a friend who has passed her Pre-Gold dances try to skate the BEST Dutch Waltz possible - and she learned alot about her skating and dancing in the process.

[ChristyRN]

Bronze Moves are not changing.

The wording in the description has changed to reflect that they are to be judged at the same numerical standard as the Preliminary MITF test.

Oh, good. That means I can still test after I get and adjust to new skates instead of starting all over.

[sk8lady]

I LOVE this idea - I have been thinking for a long while that we actually need separate Moves for adults (or maybe as you say - just some adults) -- I have been working on a series of moves that an adult can do, do well and will make them prettier skaters without being so difficult as to discourage their doing - let alone testing.

Although I did skate as a kid and have passed Silver Dances there are certainly limitations as I age.  I have pretty much given up the idea of ever testing again - except maybe partnered dances (and get some more Pre-Golds under my belt) - but it would be nice to work on and perform some other Moves for judges - solo.

Some of my skating friends have gone back to get their solo dances - starting at the beginning with the Dutch Waltz - this is another way to test yourself - IF you are dance-inclined and have dance coaches in your area.  It is great to watch a friend who has passed her Pre-Gold dances try to skate the BEST Dutch Waltz possible - and she learned alot about her skating and dancing in the process.

I am definitely on board with all of the above! I suspect adult skaters could be a very good revenue stream for USFS if handled correctly--somewhere above being patronized and somewhere below being told to skate like 15 year olds or fail tests. I hustled through Silver Moves at the Adult level because I wasn't quite ready, but knew my back and hip would prevent me from passing the spiral pattern that's now on Silver (and my back has gotten worse in the last two years, so I'm glad I did it). While it's a great move for kids and young adults, it's virtually impossible for many older adults. But I'm sure it's not wise to shut older adults, especially retired adults with disposable income and time on their hands, out of testing. Without some kind of goal, people lose interest.

That said, I did take my first 6 dances at the standard level, then chickened out and took the next 3 at the adult level, but I've always had it in my head that if I ever finish my dances at the adult level, I'll go back and start over with the Hickory at the standard level--my scores for that and the Willow suggested I would have passed those at the standard level (but not the Ten Fox!). In the meantime I can stop dragging my feet (no pun intended)on the Fourteen Step now that AN is over--I wanted to compete once at the bronze level before having to move up because of my dance level.

[PinkLaces]

I am really discouraged reading about the judging standards for Silver and up. We already have tough judging standards here. Some of the passed tests I have seen on YouTube, would not pass here. I was a test chair for many years and have seen many tests.

That coupled with the fact that my club's board are doing some jerky things right now are making me question whether I am going to renew my membership come June.

[techskater]

At ANs during the AC meeting.  The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs.  By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less. 

[irenar5]

At ANs during the AC meeting.  The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs. By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less.

What is the rationale for this? 

[nicklaszlo]

What is the rationale for this?

Presumably cost, or maybe availability of judges.

[fsk8r]

At ANs during the AC meeting.  The rationale for the age limit changes is that other committees are putting pressure on the adult committee to lower the total number of different events offered at ANs.  By formally combining the open Intermediate and Novice and open Junior and Senior and realigning the age groups, they are trying to do that before they are forced into an action that people may like even less.

Could this all be in preparation for turning all the categories IJS?

[Nate]

I am definitely on board with all of the above! I suspect adult skaters could be a very good revenue stream for USFS if handled correctly--somewhere above being patronized and somewhere below being told to skate like 15 year olds or fail tests. I hustled through Silver Moves at the Adult level because I wasn't quite ready, but knew my back and hip would prevent me from passing the spiral pattern that's now on Silver (and my back has gotten worse in the last two years, so I'm glad I did it). While it's a great move for kids and young adults, it's virtually impossible for many older adults. But I'm sure it's not wise to shut older adults, especially retired adults with disposable income and time on their hands, out of testing. Without some kind of goal, people lose interest.

That said, I did take my first 6 dances at the standard level, then chickened out and took the next 3 at the adult level, but I've always had it in my head that if I ever finish my dances at the adult level, I'll go back and start over with the Hickory at the standard level--my scores for that and the Willow suggested I would have passed those at the standard level (but not the Ten Fox!). In the meantime I can stop dragging my feet (no pun intended)on the Fourteen Step now that AN is over--I wanted to compete once at the bronze level before having to move up because of my dance level.

I was just about to reply to someone else, but your post is quite relevant.

Pretty much the same for me.  I've pretty much surrendered to those spirals.

Bronze is as far as I'll go.

But if I ever compete, I will be phenomenal at Bronze.

If not for those spirals, I can do pretty much everything on Silver and Gold without issue.

But I'm not in this for residual pain.  If I do moves on a session, I'm pretty much guaranteed to have a sore/weak left hip and lower back for the next 4-7 days.  Sorry, no can do.