The Judge's Perspective

[AgnesNitt]

I stumbled across this blog post from a skating judge. I think it's worth reading.

[icedancer]

Wow. Talk about sour grapes.

It's a good thing this blogger doesn't post their name although I am sure if someone was interested they could find out who it is. Yikes.

[FigureSpins]

Wow.  Just wow. 

[jjane45]

I thought it was alright...

[rachelplotkin]

I thought it was alright...

Me too.

[AgnesNitt]

From the same judge
http://ireallylikemylife.blogspot.com/2011/07/colliding-worlds-of-hockey-and-figure.html

[sarahspins]

I thought it was alright...

Same here, because they have a valid point.  It's never the judge's fault if a skater fails a test... to put the blame on a judge is just silly. 

(edited because I totally said that wrong - oops!)

[blue111moon]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that blog.  Failing two out of six tests isn't harsh; it's actually a decent percentage if we're talking about tests above Juvenile Level.  The blogger is blunter than the norm but is basically stating the truth - there are money-grubbing coaches out there who are more concerned with keeping parents and skaters happy (and continuing to pay for lessons) than in teaching correct technique - or who just don't know the correct technique and can't be bothered to learn.   Blaming the judges when a skater fails is easier than figuring out what the skater didn't do and fixing it. 

Most judges won't come out and say that to the skater's face, though.  So putting it out there in this format is one way to get the word out.

[sampaguita]

I don't see any problem with it either. In fact, I agree with the judge that coaches have to focus on the foundations. However, I am not a judge nor a coach, and nor have I ever taken tests under USFS, so my perspective may be different.

[fsk8r]

If the skater has done everything the coach has asked of them and hasn't gone to pieces with nerves and the skater fails the test, the fault lies either with the coach for failing to teach the skater everything they needed to learn for that test or with the judge for raising the standards above the norm which the coach wasnt aware of.
So assuming the judge hasn't changed their standards, the coach is at fault.

[Doubletoe]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that blog.  Failing two out of six tests isn't harsh; it's actually a decent percentage if we're talking about tests above Juvenile Level.  The blogger is blunter than the norm but is basically stating the truth - there are money-grubbing coaches out there who are more concerned with keeping parents and skaters happy (and continuing to pay for lessons) than in teaching correct technique - or who just don't know the correct technique and can't be bothered to learn.   Blaming the judges when a skater fails is easier than figuring out what the skater didn't do and fixing it. 

Most judges won't come out and say that to the skater's face, though.  So putting it out there in this format is one way to get the word out.

I agree.  If the judge gave no explanation for failing the skater, then that wouldn't be very helpful, but judges give comments on the score sheets so the skaters know what they did well or poorly on the test.    Additionally, the higher the test level, the more judges are required and the higher level judges they need to be.  It's true that some judges are pickier overall than others, but those picky judges are generally picky across the board, not just for specific skaters.  And if the picky judge didn't think you were good enough, you only need the two other judges to pass you and you pass.  It's a fair system, IMO.  Oh, and I do know one or two coaches who spend their time flattering the skater instead of correcting bad technique.  I used to be coached by one of them.

[phoenix]

In defense of coaches who have skaters fail a test now & then, there are occasionally times when I've put a skater out knowing that they would likely fail the test, & I know other coaches do this too. Examples are: a skater about to leave for college, given one last shot to get through a level. Skater who isn't working hard, needs a wakeup call. Skater trying to get through a level in time to qualify for regionals, start throwing the test out there to see where we are & what happens. Scarcity of test sessions--when one comes along, take advantage of it. Skater has terrible performance anxiety, needs to be in front of judges on a regular basis to have any hope of learning to keep it together.

Another example, at least in my area, is when the rules/elements change, like Moves did in 2010. Big adjustment all around, skaters failing left & right, partly because judges weren't following what was put out in the seminars & we didn't know what they were looking for *coughjuniormovescough*.

I know that some coaches don't do a good job. But one skater on one test session does not tell the tale of that coach's overall ability.

[Clarice]

Unless you overhear that coach telling the skater that they didn't pass because the judges are biased against their club or some such nonsense.  Sadly, I have observed that.  Blessedly, it's a rare occurrence.  Most coaches work very hard to help their skaters improve and won't put a bad test out there without a good reason, such as the ones phoenix notes.

[Sk8tmum]

Okay, my DD is a judge.  She does the lower levels, thus, she's dealing with the younger skaters (or late starters, or adults).  She hates giving a retry (not a fail, they call it a retry).  She is a skater herself.  She still tests and competes, and, darnit, she's gotten a lot of retries over the years.  She also thought that some judges were "out to get her" or "just weren't fair" - and, to be fair, some are harsher than others.  Older, wiser, she now knows that the judges that were "tough" were trying to get her to be solid at the lower level so that the higher levels would come easier. She's not a good tester: she always skates "down" in a test situation, and she certainly is not a natural dancer. 

Now, as a judge, she goes quite a distance to accommodate test days, often at a loss of income.  She is in an arena for many cold hours, for no pay, and hopefully a decent hot meal in the process. For that, she has to deal with coaches, small children, test chairs, and tons of paperwork. At the end of it, she gets a small gratuity (say, $25 in value).  She does it because she wants to give back to the sport, and she has a huge commitment to building young skaters and giving them a solid test experience.  When skaters go out on the ice bright and shiny and excited, it's very hard to give them a retry, but, she has to if the test isn't ready because, otherwise, the skater will have the wrong knowledge of their skating level. 

I can certainly tell you that she has a solid knowledge of which coaches prepare their skaters well; which ones test "just to try"; and which ones do exactly what the blog describes, which is pushing the kid thru before they are ready so that parents are excited about how fast their kid is progressing. She can't tell a skater any of this. All she can do is give solid feedback about, say, "the wide-step on the mohawk needs to be addressed" or "edges are not strong enough", "more flow needed",  "jump is cheated, needs more rotation, tighter air position".  She doesn't want to take the shine off a kid's day, but, it is heartbreaking to see so much effort and realizing that the skater honestly doesn't know that they are not ready for the test.  She also judges at comps, and she sees the same kids struggling in competitions as they are punching above their weight.  And, sadly, she often sees the same kids hanging up their skates because they're tired of being unsuccessful.

She's wiped teary eyes, cleaned up snotty noses, and given encouragement to persevere to small skaters who have not been successful in a test.  She meets with coaches and skaters to give them feedback when they ask (and has had some nasty experiences, but, most are nice). Years ago, one judge told her that if she was going to get into this, that she'd better have a thick skin, and a real passion for the sport, because, it certainly is not a job for the faint or heart or for anyone who doesn't believe that volunteering is it's own reward.

[jjane45]

Sk8tmum, thank you so much for sharing!

[amy1984]

We have one nasty judge in our area.  She's awful.  Truly.  Makes kids cry with the remarks she writes and pretty much fails every test she sees.  And I'm pretty sure she leaves a bad taste for the sport in many people's mouthes which is too bad because the majority of the judges that we have are kind, patient, and genuinely love the sport.  It's a shame that this one lady sets the tone for our area.  I think we should focus more on the positives like Sk8mum's daughter otherwise, if these GOOD people feel judged by the actions of their peers, maybe they won't stay in the sport.

[fsk8r]

I think most judges are like Sk8tmum's DD and I'd hope that most coaches are like phoenix. I think at times as skaters we need to step back and remember that everyone involved in the sport be they skater or judge are doing their bit for the love of the sport and those judging and coaching are trying to share that love with the next generation of skaters.
Sometimes, the emotion of the occasion means that we don't always recognise that and sometimes statements are made that aren't quite true.

[irenar5]

I am curious- those who thought that the blog was outrageous and with a sour tone, could you share why you think this?

[jjane45]

bluntly honest but a bit generalized

I do believe judges draw conclusions based on multiple students, multiple test sessions.

[sarahspins]

I do believe judges draw conclusions based on multiple students, multiple test sessions.

I agree... and within each club there are coaches who known for having their skaters well prepared when they put them out to test and others that just aren't, and it's not just the judges who can pick up on this.  I really think it goes beyond an ability to teach skating technique but also in how well (or not well) the coach teaches their students how to practice, how to do off ice warm ups, etc... as well as the mental preparation for test sessions (my coach did a lot of that with me before my last test, including coaching me from the boards so I'd be comfortable not having her on the ice with me - it seems like such a small thing, but I think it helped a lot).

[skatingmum2]

My daughter recently failed a  couple of tests - I guess that kids these days have few opportunities to fail in life so in a perverse way maybe it does help them learn strength of character.

She failed her novice test at first try and her junior MIF (twice before passing). The second time she failed her junior MIF a judge actually came to find me in the cafe to tell me one of her exercises had been taught to her wrong but she had really strong edges and he really liked her skating - which was so sweet of him. (I nearly fell off my chair!) She herself sorted that one out and checked up the exercise herself.

With the novice test it was two of strictest judges but they were so lovely with her afterwards telling her positives about her skating (musicality, speed and flow) and how not to over-think elements and deal with nerves. She sailed the test next time round really feeling positive.

I didn't think the judge was too bad for somebody having a rant!

[sk8lady]

I thought she was nasty and narcissistic, and I read several of her other posts to see if it carried through. It did. Here's a portion of the skating post:

"And yet, they are saddled with coaches who are money grubbing low life thieves who don't care about proper technique--all they care about is keeping the parents happy by pushing the skaters up through the levels at a rapid pace, making themselves look like super coaches in the process.

And when these skaters tank at competitions, they blame the judges. Or other skaters or coaches for psyching out their skater.
And when these skaters come across a judge such as myself at a test session, and we fail them, or refuse to give high marks if we pass them, they call us too critical and picky. Or suggest we don't like the skater for personal reasons.

Very early on one thing became glaringly clear to me: I better be judging for love of the sport, because at one time or another, each and every skater I come in contact with will hate my guts.  I will have failed them, or one of their family members or friends. Or perhaps I gave them what was in their mind undeserved low marks. At some point in time, they will wish I had taken a long walk off a short pier.
Then so be it." [Emphasis added.]

This kind of public statement is unbecoming conduct for someone judging others even if it is anonymous. Calling all coaches who think their skaters should have passed "money-grubbing thieves"? Really? There are many other reasons a coach might put a skater on the ice who is not quite ready than that they are a "money-grubbing thief." And it surprises her that immature kids who fail a test might blame the judge, although she doesn't say how she knows this? Finally, why on earth would she be judging for anything OTHER than love of the sport? Power? Money? Unending gratefulness? I don't think failing two skaters out of six is necessarily unreasonable, but this person does not seem to me to have what we in the biz call "a judicial temperament." I'm glad she is in Chicago and not here!

[retired]

I agree with sk8lady.   I would want to ask that blogging judge:  Did you go and talk to the coaches afterwards?  Did you tell them that their skaters have poor technique and are trained improperly?  I would highly doubt it.    Writing on a blog in this way is doing nothing for the progress of the sport.

[icedancer]

As a judge I totally agree with the above statements by slusher and sk8lady - this blog post is so negative and condescending.

Also USFS has made it very clear that we are not supposed to post stuff like this publicly or make any public remarks about tests we have judged etc. 

I know that the kids are sometimes scared of us and parents and skaters are sometimes surprised to know that we love our sport and are there to do a job - we had a group recently that had no idea that we would do critiques if asked -

I love judging but you do have to be tough-skinned sometimes to do it!

[techskater]

I have a sneaky suspicion I might know who this judge is and in some respects, while maybe not put in the best of ways and she/he could have chosen better words to express their thoughts, I know who the comment about money grubbing coaches may be directed at (and this judge has probably overheard these particular coaches that were singled out in the blog blaming the judges for the student not passing instead of reading the comments and using it as constructive feedback to improve the test for next go) as there are some coaches in the Chicago area that put out MIF tests as soon as the skater can get through it without major mistakes (falls, foot down) and then seem surprised when the skater gets a retry on a higher level (Intermediate or higher) when it looks like they are "walking" through the test then blame the judges for being picky.  IMO, it's unfair to the judges for the coach to blame them for the retry in most situations (probably 95% of the time).  I don't think the judge was saying ALL coaches blame the judges for retries nor is this judge saying that all coaches whose students get a retry are money grubbing, just that there appears to be a pattern with a certain coach or group of coaches where the students go out unprepared to meet passing standards.