Incredible Edger sharpening machine

[Qsior]

Did you verify radial and axial runout from the spindle axis after the bearing replacement? ...from the areas which are in contact to the wheel?

Hmmmm I did not .

[Qsior]

On IE , Can I sharpen normal blades as well as thick ones, e.g. matrix, paramount ?
Regular figure skate holder will fit ?
I'm wondering if I can lower holder position enough?

[Qsior]

Hmmmm I did not .

but I think everything is fine because the machine works perfectly except that I need to balance wheels

[Kaitsu]

I am not sure if there are different versions of transversal carriers where the height adjustments are. If I remember right, I did request that I need to have possibility to sharpen also 8mm thick paramount and Matrix blades and that is what I got. I have 3D printed shim plate for "normal" thickness blades. Sometimes with the thinnest blades problem was that I didnt have enough height adjustment. It was furstrating when you started sharpening and then noted that you cannot adjust height enough.Same trick I would use also on other brands skate holders, so that I do not need to adjust holder so much if I use same holder for 4mm and 8mm thick blades.

[Kaitsu]

Clear weakness in IE height adjustment is that its made by machining to surfaces to be eccentrick. To be able to have >2mm height adjustment, eccentricity has to be quite huge. It makes adjustments super sensitive. Another problem is that adjustment locking is made with rubber "washers" and tjeir 9friction affect. In practise this means that if you need to do tiny adjustment, first nothing happens, because adjustment returns to original position and next you adjust way too much. This in very frustrating feature, especially in the beginning. Since you dont have any scales, everything lays on your finger feeling. I am still struggling with this feature after several years of use. There is not so much free space to add dial gauges. I have stidied that multiple times. I have also drawn new adjustment mechanism, but its hard to find machinist whom would machine eccentrick parts with accuracy I want.

[Qsior]

I made myself a Christmas present 

[Bill_S]

That's quite a machine!

[Query]

Qsior: Did you also consider putting back higher clearance bearings in your Blademaster? And did you give up on making your own machine?

[Kaitsu]

Finally some activity in the Pro Shop!

Welcome to the "IE club" Note that it probably takes some time before you like that machine. At least in my case it took quite long time before I was happy to it. In the very beginning I did feel lots frustration. Height adjustment and surface finish quality were the main problems in the beginning.

It seems they have made several small changes to the desing. Base frame is now from two parts and maybe not made from casting anymore. In the photos it looks like the guide rods clamping points are fully U shaped and not partly V shaped like they used to be. If this is true, I would say that it was not good change. There is reason why in metrology the use V-parallels.

Dressing system cover is now fully machined. Most likely this is more cost effective way to manufacture it.

Vacuum connection has changed. Maybe its now closer to very old design where outlet is pointing downwards and not back like in my machine. Super Sharp does have this older design in her IE. It would be nice to see this area without the top cover.

It seems you didnt take hockey carriage. Its needed in the revolution blades. Medium grit wheels would be also nice to have...for stainless steeö blades and blades which requires massive material removal.

[Qsior]

Wow, your kit is really powerful. I see you bought a lot of spare parts, but what are those long profiles?

As usual, you're right. Today I tried sharpening for the first time. I have to say, I expected more WOW . I was hoping for better dust removal.

It's hard for me to feel the diamond dresser. When making small adjustments, I get closer and then move away. So, adjusting the height won't be easy either.

Vacuum connection is straight back .

I'll post a better photo later

for the price I expected more

[Qsior]

Qsior:  And did you give up on making your own machine?

Unfortunately, I'm stuck on making a diamond dresser and dust removal, I have no idea, maybe this machine will help me move forward

[Qsior]

Qsior: Did you also consider putting back higher clearance bearings in your Blademaster?

I need to correct what I wrote earlier about the bearings in the Blademaster engine. I replaced them again and after checking, it turned out I had installed CN bearings, which means normal clearance, which is what they were at the factory. I didn't install C3 bearings with a larger clearance; this time I also used CN bearings.
But why did I decide to replace them? Because the wheel was wobbling again. Only this time I know it's not the engine bearings that are bad. I found the cause.
There's play in the flange. I'm trying to adjust it by tightening the screws, but it's difficult.

[Kaitsu]

In the beginning my first impression was dissapointment, so I know how you feel. It takes time to get used with this machine.

Since shipping cost alone were $800, I did use my all awailable moneys for spare parts and accessories.

Wheel balancing is much much more critical in this machine than in your Blademaster. Unfortunately wheel balance changes when its getting smaller, so you need to repeat balancing from time to time. Time consuming job, but mandatory if you want the very best surface finish.

I do not fully understand the issue with wheel dresser. Black knob behind the machine is micro adjustment. Adjust it a bit and dress your wheel. Dont turn the knob after dressing. When you have used the whole micro adjustment range, turn the adjustment knob back to "zero position" and rotate the whole dressing system more close to the wheel.

I did buy my machine with the profiling system. If you look my picture(s), you will see additional adjustment knob next to the vacuum connection. Items you asked are profoling templates. They costed quite a lot and I really do not like the whole profiling system. This system requires hockey carrier.

Since you already have BM large wheel machine, why you choose IE instead of BM 3" machine?

I dont remember anymore, did you have some cross grinder?

[marc]

Unfortunately, I'm stuck on making a diamond dresser and dust removal, I have no idea, maybe this machine will help me move forward

Comme je t'avais dit, cela est une des partie de ma conception qui a été la plus délicate, et tu aurais pu t'en inspiré...car tu n'en était pas loin!
Pour avoir conçu ma propre machine pour moins de 1000€ , je suis persuadé d'avoir une surface d'affutage peut être aussi bien voire mieux que l'IE d'origine....Car il y a quelques amélioration à faire sur l'IE pour obtenir une finition comme Kaitsu;...
L'avantage aussi dans ma conception, c'est que si une pièce casse, on peut toutes les trouver dans n'importe quel pays! (sauf le porte diamant qui est fait sur mesure)

As I told you, this was one of the trickiest parts of my design, and you could have taken inspiration from it...because you weren't far off!

Having designed my own machine for under €1000, I'm convinced I have a sharpening surface that's perhaps as good as, or even better than, the original IE...because there are a few improvements to be made to the IE to achieve a finish like Kaitsu's...
Another advantage of my design is that if a part breaks, you can find replacements in any country! (except for the diamond holder, which is custom-made)

[marc]

If you read all the posts, you'll also understand that you'll need a grinding wheel balancer and a cross-ground wheel, essential for doing really good work...you can't have an IE and not have these as options

[Qsior]

Kaitsu,
I understand you bought a profiling system for  hockey skates? So you also had to buy a cross grinder from IE?

I don't have a cross grinder from IE, I made a separate station for cross grinding, something like Blademaster

Why I didn't buy a BM one? As you wrote earlier, the 3-inch BM one has the same problems as the 8-inch one. Table needs to be cleaned every time you use diamond dresser.

As you know, you need to use a dressing wheel several times while sharpening.
In BM it is inconvenient and guiding rods are much better than a table.

Is there anything you think would be a must-have for IE? A cross grinder from IE? Or something else? Which stones do you think are the best for normal (not hard steel) blades?

although for now I'm wondering if I did the right thing by buying IE ;-)
But as You know , dollar exchange rate is good

[Kaitsu]

No, I did buy profiling templates for figure skates. I believed that with them I can change main rocker radius or restore it to original. If you have looked Paramount skates video, you have probably seen how bad main rockers are when their are grinded handheld in the factory. I have withnessed same with Sid's rocker radius gauge as well as with the 3D printed templates.

You can use these templates only in hockey carrier. Another reason to choose also hockey carrier was revolution blades.

Profiling is done with the same wheel as sharpening. With little edger you can access just short distance behind the toe picks, not whole profile. LE is purchased later.  Since you have BM carrier, maybe I would not recommend LE for you. But some cross grinder you need if you want to make figure skates. Making cross grinder is much more easier than sharpening machine.

[Kaitsu]

I use mainly Blademaster 3DR ruby wheels. They are much harder than white aluminum oxide wheels. In some reason those original IE fine (white) wheels what I have are causing more easily snake skin patter (chatter mark) than ruby wheel. How ever they might have changed supplier since my last order. Even I have these ICE Fine wheels with two different label.

Since I have quite a lot of these white wheels on my stock, I use also them from time to time. In some carbon steel blades they have faster material revoval rate than ruby wheels. Or at least you can see more sparks, which gives the impression that you remove more material. You cannot use white wheels for cheap stainless steel blades and most likely not ruby wheel either. With the white wheel you remove more material from the wheel than from the blade. Ruby wheel gets clogged and then you grind metal with metal. In such a cases I use ICE medium wheel.

The way how you dress the wheel affects how agressively wheel cuts the steel. Fast and heavy dressing makes it more coarse and it bites more agressively and opposite. Obviously this all has also affect to the surface finish. Gusto glide and wax type of surface improvement tricks dont work in 3" machines. You will understand this after you have tried them.

[Kaitsu]

I recommend to check transferal guide rods paralellism in some table which flatness is known. I used inspection granite table. In my case rods were not parallel. I was using very thin shimm plate to correct the error.

Generally speaking, using 4 contact points is in prinsible level wrong. Its nearly impossible to make guide rods so straight and parallel that all bearings would be always in contact. For the same reason your BM skate carrier does have just three height adjustment knobs.

You can test this in your machine. Move both carries to different positions and try to rotate bearings by your finger. Most likely you will notice that some bearing has less friction than others. If you want, you can try to adjust bearings clearances to the guide rods with their eccentric adjustment system.

[Qsior]

Kaitsu,
Thank you very much for these valuable comments.
I installed the Fine Grey at the start and it was very, very soft ;-) (cheep stainless steel).
I'm curious what you wrote about ruby ��wheels. I use 8mxruby ��wheels in my large machines and they work fine with all types of blades, but maybe it's different in 3-inch machines due to the speed.
I ordered a lot of ruby ��wheels from Blademaster too , including white ones. ( Yes I remember to balance ;-) )
I'll test them.

I'm attaching a photo to compare the IE and BM diamond tips. The thread is the same, the tip height is different, but that's not a problem. I think the TSM 688 will be even better because it has a better tip shape.
Out of curiosity, I'd like to compare the IE and BM diamond tips. The thread is the same; the tip height differs, but that's not a problem. I think the TSM 688 will be even better because it has a better tip shape.

[Kaitsu]

Qsior, thanx for the new photos. It seems the base which is bolted on top of electric motor is also changed. As I can see two spot weldings in the vacuum hose connection, I assume its also fully machined and not casted anymore. Suction hole looks smaller than it used to be.

IE diamonds are sold as a calibrated (lenght from contact surface to the tip of diamond). This is needed only if you use diamond quill scale to set ROH. Instead of using quill scale, I use digital caliper as a ROH scale. With this way ROH is always same even diamond tip would wear or if I would like to use any other diamonds with same thread. So I agree you. I also agree that I am not happy to IE original diamonds quality. Some of them are very round and tip of the diamond is not in the center. Means that if you rotate diamond quill while you sharpen, you might need to  adjust your skate height.

All diamonds in the picture are brand new. Zoom to see their tips shape.

[R45]

One of the main reasons for chatter marks is vibrations caused by an unbalanced wheel.
When the wheel wears off it might be balanced again.
SSM is using balancing rings on top of the wheel which are easy to use.
Maybe such a ring could be adapted for your machines?
SSM Balancing Ring

[Kaitsu]

Before IE I had copy of SSM. It had similar "stepless" balanging washer. Balancing was a real nigthmare task. Getting the wheel in to balance is comparable to winning in the lottery.

I have tried also another type of balancing "washer" which commonly used on industrial grinders. It did not work like I expected. I believe reason is the 3" wheel is too light for this system. So far hot glue and any weight that is more heavy than glue has been my solution.

[Qsior]

Clear weakness in IE height adjustment is that its made by machining to surfaces to be eccentrick. To be able to have >2mm height adjustment, eccentricity has to be quite huge. It makes adjustments super sensitive. Another problem is that adjustment locking is made with rubber "washers" and tjeir 9friction affect. In practise this means that if you need to do tiny adjustment, first nothing happens, because adjustment returns to original position and next you adjust way too much. This in very frustrating feature, especially in the beginning. Since you dont have any scales, everything lays on your finger feeling. I am still struggling with this feature after several years of use. There is not so much free space to add dial gauges. I have stidied that multiple times. I have also drawn new adjustment mechanism, but its hard to find machinist whom would machine eccentrick parts with accuracy I want.

Oooo yes , oh yes, now I know what You are writing about.
After dial adjustment in BM holders this in IE is terrible . I know it's more precise But.......
Second , when the blades are small I have to place them further forward or backward on the blade holder . I don't like it.
I also don't like the thickness of the blade holder, compared to the BM it is large, there is little space left to measure the edges.
I have good machinist , we can join forces to do better new adjustment mechanism

[Qsior]

I recommend to check transferal guide rods paralellism in some table which flatness is known. I used inspection granite table. In my case rods were not parallel. I was using very thin shimm plate to correct

Thanks again , unfortunately mine is the same. I'll try to fix it