Incredible Edger sharpening machine

[Casey]

Is the IE still an ideal sharpening machine to buy today, or should I consider other options?  I have no experience or background knowledge, but with 8 skaters in the household and some bad sharpening experiences in the past, I'm toying with the idea of buying something and learning...

[Kaitsu]

Casey,
There don't seem to be many options if you want a machine with a 3" grinding wheel. At least, I'm not aware of any manufacturers other than Incredible Edger or Blademaster. Personally, I wouldn't consider anything other than a 3" wheel—it makes things much easier, especially for beginners.

Both machine options have their own pros and cons. I've already listed the drawbacks of the Incredible Edger in this thread. As for Blademaster, I see its biggest weaknesses as the grinding dust falling onto the table where the carriage is moved. Even a clean table creates some friction, and the table itself is quite small. On the other hand, the Blademaster is not as prone to vibration.

In the end, it comes down to personal preference which type of machine you like more.

Blademaster options: BRPD1B or BREXD1 and SH6500
https://eishockey-onlineshop.de/BLADEMASTER-Kunstlauf-Schlittschuhhalter
https://wissota.com/product/elite-3-d-universal-figure-skate-holder/

[tstop4me]

Is the IE still an ideal sharpening machine to buy today, or should I consider other options?  I have no experience or background knowledge, but with 8 skaters in the household and some bad sharpening experiences in the past, I'm toying with the idea of buying something and learning...

If you're willing to forgo the advantages of a 3" diam wheel, you could also consider the Wissota, which has a 7" diam wheel. It is considerably less expensive than the 3" diam wheel units.  Bill_S did a thorough review of his experience with the Wissota (from unboxing and setup to final results):  https://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8453.0.

[Kaitsu]

Casey,
I forgot to mention that no machine — not even the best on the market — can compensate for problems in motivation. If the driving force is purely making money, as is too often the case, it can be expected that quality will suffer. The sharpening's you see in the linked video were done with an Incredible Edger. The skate shop in question has over 20 years of experience and, according to their own claims, they always put the skater's best interests first. I have a somewhat different opinion on whether those promises are reflected in these sharpening's. All the skates they sharpen to look the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBRAX-ui4GY

[Casey]

Thank you for the responses.  I don't have experience to understand the advantages of a smaller wheel, but it sounds like maybe that's what I should be looking for.  I have five children skating six days a week and my spouse and myself skate less often, so it seems like I could justify buying a machine and learning to sharpen myself.  I also have a hard time trusting shops to do well, and don't especially like making arrangements to drive farther and pay even more for a more for a more reputable sharpening.  My intention isn't to make money, but potentially save it in the long run.  More importantly, I'd like to take time to practice on some old blades and do careful work and hopefully maintain  better quality rocker profiles.

[Woofoo]

Hi Casey,

I would like to advise you to wait and see if you are not in a hurry.

I go to the IE web site and found that their Next Gen machine is coming soon. So, you can wait to see if the new machine have some significant improvements.

Anyway, it is my own opinion.

Regards.

Woofoo

[Qsior]

I ordered a Modified Figure Skate Carriage Support for the Paramount and Matrix blades ($130). "No shim required, just unbolt what's on the carriage and bolt this new piece on" - that's what they wrote.
 I got it,
 It's the same as the regular one, what can I do? CNC?

[Woofoo]

Qsior,

I believe the "new" holder is to correct the over-reformed of the height of the holder for the accommodation of Paramount/Matrix blades. So it is no need to shimming washers at the bolt as my version of holder(just about 4 years ago). However, if your holder is of the most recent one, you might be buying the same thing in different name.

Regards.

[Kaitsu]

The IE has been sold as compatible with Matrix and Paramount blades and conventional steel blades for at least ten years. As you probably know, the chassis of these aluminum chassis blades is approximately 8 mm thick, whereas conventional steel blades are approximately 4 mm thick.

This 4 mm difference in total thickness shifts the blade centreline by approximately 2 mm. Therefore, the component you ordered for your skate carriage must sit about 2 mm lower than it did in the older machines, or the height-adjustment levers must have enough eccentricity to compensate for the difference. In the past, the problem was that the skate carriage could not be lowered far enough. On my Matrix-compatible machine, this component is approximately 66 mm high.

Because the blade centrelines differ by approximately 2 mm, the height-adjustment levers must provide sufficient adjustment range. I have written confirmation from Sid that the designed eccentricity is 0.14 inches, or approximately 3.6 mm. I do not know what the lever eccentricity was before the machine was modified for Matrix compatibility.

Approximately 2 mm of the available 3.6 mm adjustment range is already needed to compensate for the difference between the two blade thicknesses. In theory, the remaining 1.6 mm should be sufficient for setting the blade to the correct height. Continues..

[Kaitsu]

In practice, however, I did not have enough adjustment range for 4 mm thick blades. I concluded that the underlying cause was probably the additional eccentric adjustments built into the guide-rail system. These adjustments can be used to balance the overall skate-carriage height so that sufficient adjustment range remains available for both blade thicknesses.

I did not want to start changing the guide-rail adjustments for two reasons:

I did not want to disturb the existing machine alignment.

The difference in lever position required to compensate for 2 mm of height is very large. I did not like having the levers at such different angles for the two blade types.

With a 2 mm shim, the height-adjustment levers remain at almost the same angle with both blade thicknesses. This makes height adjustment much easier, especially because there is no scale and muscle memory is effectively the only reference. This is probably much easier to understand if you have used an IE yourself.

Personally, I do not like the 0.14-inch eccentricity, which provides approximately 3.6 mm of height adjustment. It makes the adjustment extremely sensitive and makes precise micro-adjustments difficult. The rubber friction elements in the levers make fine adjustment even more challenging. I would prefer less eccentricity and a finer, more controllable height adjustment.

[Qsior]

Kaitsu ,
What would You advise? Reducing the thickness of the 2mm matrix support?

[Qsior]

I love this machine, but the customer service...
First they used lousy belts, and now someone made a mistake and swapped the carriage supports—and somehow it's all my fault.

[Kaitsu]

Kaitsu ,
What would You advise? Reducing the thickness of the 2mm matrix support?

I'm a little unclear about what the actual problem is and what you're trying to achieve. Doesn't your machine have enough height adjustment to position the 8 mm thick Matrix blades low enough? Or are you aiming to have two separate skate holders—one for 4 mm blades and another for 8 mm blades?

How tall is the part you bought? Is it 66 mm, like mine?

[Kaitsu]

I go to the IE web site and found that their Next Gen machine is coming soon. So, you can wait to see if the new machine have some significant improvements.

I'm not sure it was a wise move for the manufacturer to announce a second-generation machine at this stage. People are now putting their purchases on hold without knowing exactly what they're waiting for or when the new model might be released.

[Qsior]

I bought a machine with a standard holder and later wanted to buy a Matrix holder. They suggested a Matrix carriage support that I could swap in—it was supposed to be around 63mm—but unfortunately, they sent a support marked "Matrix" that had the standard height of 65mm.

[Qsior]

They really are preparing something new. A new holder  design for sure ;-)

[Kaitsu]

There must be some difference between your machine and mine. I need a 2 mm shim to raise a 4 mm blade high enough, even though my skate carriage is 66 mm high — 1 mm higher than yours.

[Woofoo]

Kaitsu, Qsior,

Mine is 65.75mm and with 0.7mm shimming washer. So, it seems Mr. Broadbent had been improving the holder to accommodate the two Blades. And the 65mm is the latest version, I guess.

Anyway, it's all my guess. By the way, what is the holder you showed in the #165 post? Is it the holder they supposed to sell you?

Regards.

[Woofoo]

P.S. the shimming washer was placed between the holder and the chassis.

[Qsior]

Anyway, it's all my guess. By the way, what is the holder you showed in the #165 post? Is it the holder they supposed to sell you?

No my holder is in #160 post with spare carriage support . For 4mm blades I have regular support 65mm . I wanted to swap them for smaller 63 mm Matrix ones.

The photos in post 165 are from Incredible Edger; they tried to convince me that the Matrix support measures 63mm—which means they were showing that height using brand-new support .

[Woofoo]

Qsior,

So, I would suggest you eMail the Incredible Edger with the photos of #160 and #165 posted. And state the situation. And ask for replacement.

Since the return of the received holder is quite inconvenience and freight consuming, I think you can ask for their waiving.

See what they react. Hope you good luck. But I think that is the least they can do with the customer service in mind.

Regards.

[Woofoo]

P.S. And the photos of post #164.