Figure Skating from a Man's Perspective

[SynchKat]

Canada does have a lot of ice and many many indoor and outdoor rinks but as Sk8mum said figure skating on public session is strictly verbotem. I typically get told not to "figure skate" when on a public session. .outdoor rinks are more lax with their rules.  The only issues with outdoor rinks are they destroy your blades since you are skating through leaves and other junk and sometimes it is just too cold to be outside, let alone skate.
From my experience booking ice for my synchro team, hockey takes up most of the available level ice time.  It is hard finding ice. 
As for Adult friendly clubs I only know the Toronto area so no help.  I do know of skaters in Kingston and Ottawa but that isn't close to ONSkater

[retired]

Thread split may be really helpful, lots of information on adult figure skating in Canada.

Lol, I think it got off topic because it's possible to know every male adult figure skater in Canada there are so few.   There have been a drop off in those that compete, for all kinds of reasons, mostly because life gets in the way.  As is true for women though, those that compete are not as burdened with the chores of household and children, they're either pre-kids, post-kids, or not ever kids.   

There's quite a few guys that come out to our noon open/adult skate hour.  Mostly on hockey skates and are doing it for fitness, skating laps, some occasional drills sort of thing.  Lots of seniors, and surprisingly lots of male seniors.   But beginning male figure skaters, we don't see them.    The beginner guys come out on hockey skates.  There's been a few converts, because figure skates are more stable and there's a decent looking rec skate with a figure blade out there that doesn't scream "fancy skater"  (just quoting the guys).    http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=HARnKAPHW5sukK1a2b3c4d5eCPvikVw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E
Don't laugh, I like Softecs and think they're underrated for beginners. 

[Query]

Maybe I'm wrong, and everything is truly different in Canada, despite the incredible 5000 rinks a trade organization claims. But maybe not.

Before you assume you can't figure skate in public sessions, just because people in a club say so, try it, before 2 PM, but not during lunch. If no good at one rink, try another.

People here in the U.S. used to tell me you had to skate in clubs to do that too.

In reality, I can often be the only skater in the first 15-30 minutes of a weekday daytime public session (before about 2 PM, though at some rinks not during lunch), and that at most 3 -  7 would usually join me by the end. (Except during birthday parties, and school holidays, which most rinks know about a day or two in advance - ask.) Sometimes the next session, 15 minutes later, would be a figure skating club-run session, putting 20-50 people on the ice, where the members would insist club sessions were the only way to get uncrowded ice or figure skate! And sometimes fancy figure skaters would rent private ice for several hundred dollars an hour at the same rink.

Yes, a lot of rinks have rules that say you shouldn't "figure skate" during public sessions. They usually aren't enforced when you were the only person on the ice, or often below about 10 - 15 people. The rink guard (when provided, which isn't always) usually has a lot of leeway about enforcing rules in public sessions.

You can encourage the leeway by skating courteously. If there are beginners who might be afraid of you, you might explain to them (in rink guard's hearing, if possible) that it is Your (not their) responsibility to stay out of their way, and that they can just ignore you. Take care, give everyone some distance, and don't be a danger to others. You can also quietly ask the rink guard about this sort of thing. You might be surprised how much being safe and courteous helps.

(If you need your own music, or use a magic marker on the ice, that is much harder at many rinks. Plus, an evil rink guard who enforces rules even when you are the only person there can ruin a rink.)

And just by the way - most of the people who skate daytime are either adults or well behaved kids, of the quiet home-schooled variety. They won't tease you much.

[Mergen Tatara]

I'm a straight guy and I don't care what other people think of me figure skating.  I do it out of pleasure to feel the sensation of "a bird spreading its wings flying freely" (my own words).  In fact, my favourite move is the forward arabesque spiral, which isn't even a component in men's program.  I just like the aesthetic beauty and elegance of the move, notwithstanding the muscle strain involved.  I actually get more pleasure from gliding (and trying to hold as long as possible on one foot) then jumps/spins.

My local rink is built within a shopping centre, so it's like a fishbowl where people can gawk from sides and above.  I don't focus on other people and just concentrate on skating. Because every second of ice time is precious in a 2 hr session. There're all sorts of people at the rink.    Most hang out with their friends and stop to take photos.  Others join hands (5 or more abreast) to form the Great Wall of (name yr city)  .  And the kids don't show rink etiquette by sometimes skating against the direction of traffic or turning in front of you before the end of the rink's length/width  .

Just do what you enjoy without gender stereotypes messing with your mind.  If you live your life constantly seeking the approval of others, you'll never be happy

[Nate]

My biggest issue with being an adult male is finding STUFF that you need.  You go into some skate shops and there's a thousands dresses, but absolutely nothing a man can use in there (Pants, Unitards, etc.).  I've had to go through so many hoops just to get stuff that I need and if you don't have a week or more to wait for it to get to you via an internet order you're SoL.  Girls and women do not have this issue.  Even ordering skates.  A skate shop is liable to have almost every size in every SKU for a female skater, but I've never been able to walk in and buy a pair of skates and leave.  I always had to order and wait 3-5 weeks for them to come in (and hope they didn't miff up the size, etc.).

I don't think a lot of people (females especially, not to sound condescending I'm not trying to do that) understand how frustrating that is.  Driving 3.5-4 hours to get skating apparel when a girl can go to the next town (20-25 minutes away) just wasn't cutting it.

I've since moved cross country to be in a better "atmosphere" for skating, and that was a huge reason why I moved.  However, a female would have never had to consider something this... HUGE... for such a trivial reason.

Additionally, the lack of male coaches at some rinks is a huge issue.  Personally, I couldn't even consider skating at a rink or with a club who didn't have any male FS coaches.  A lot of woman at the lower levels (in coaching terms) just don't understand the differences well enough.

And to end that, a lot of coaches don't understand that you can't teach an adult like a 5 year old.

[rachelplotkin]

A skate shop is liable to have almost every size in every SKU for a female skater, but I've never been able to walk in and buy a pair of skates and leave.  I always had to order and wait 3-5 weeks for them to come in (and hope they didn't miff up the size, etc.).

I think it's not helpful to generalize based on gender.  We have a great pro shop in our area but they do not stock every skate for women.  I had to wait about 4 weeks for my skates once they were ordered.  The clothing they stock, and it is limited, does appear to be geared toward young girls.  Not males of any age or post pubescent women.  So having to order from them or on-line is something many skaters of both genders and all sizes have to deal with.

Additionally, the lack of male coaches at some rinks is a huge issue.  Personally, I couldn't even consider skating at a rink or with a club who didn't have any male FS coaches.  A lot of woman at the lower levels (in coaching terms) just don't understand the differences well enough.

Again, making generalized statements is not helpful or even true.  Perhaps my home rink is unusual but there are numerous male coaches and I've observed them at nearby rinks as well.  I do agree it is a totally different skill set to teach adults versus children how to skate.  I consider myself one lucky beginner to have a male coach who teaches only adults from LTS through FS. 

[FigureSpins]

ITA about gender remarks; they come across as if the poster has a chip on his/her shoulder, to be honest. 

Inventory is a business dilemma: it's expensive to keep a lot of inventory on hand and most pro shops aren't making *that* much of a profit to afford the storage and carrying costs.  (Not to mention the space)

Our pro shop isn't big and other than the rec skates, they don't keep a lot of skates in stock.  Most of my skaters have to order their skates, both the boys/men and the girls/women, so that initial "discriminating against men" theory is out.  The clothing selection is also geared towards the younger skaters.  It makes sense: there are fewer adult-sized skaters.  Stocking clothing in that size means the items sit on the rack for a long time until the right buyer comes along.  In the meantime, the clothes are being pawed over and get dusty, which means they sit there longer.  I have ordered clothing and equipment through the pro shop, just to help keep the lights on, but it took longer to receive the orders and returns/exchanges were easier to do with an online shop.

We had a great clothing shop for skating/dance/gymnastics about 30 mins away and I preferred it to our rink shop, which is much smaller.  Neither kept/keeps a lot of skates in inventory.  Unfortunately, the specialty shop's wide selection of clothing in many sizes put them under and they went out of business during the recession.

A coach who teaches children differently than adults?  Thank goodness.  I can remember overhearing a male coach tell a budding teen to put their t**s on the table during a camel entrance.  Works great for the adults, he claimed when the girl's mom complained.  (Because the one adult woman skater he used it on giggled because she was crushing on him.)  Frankly, I would have told him off if he had said that to me at any age.  It's inappropriate.

What is appropriate is for a coach of any gender to identify what the skater's learning style is and adapt their teaching methods to it, whether it be visual, auditory, or repetition.  Adults will always ask for more details, kids typically just wanna keep trying it.

[FigureSpins]

GoSveta/Nate is entitled to his opinion and to limit his coaching choices to appx. 25% of the available coaching population.  Men are in the minority as both skaters and coaches.  We don't have any male coaching staff at our rink.  Some men guest-coach at our rink before comps/tests, but the students take their regular lessons at other rinks or work with our staff coaches and do a few prep lessons with the men.

I do think that male skaters at the Juvenile/Intermediate level benefit from working with a male coach on certain things, such as a spin coach or a jump coach, just to outline the body alignment issues that are different than those of girls/women.  That's for IJS-level skaters, not for someone still working on their singles. 

However, the primary coach doesn't need to be a matching gender to be effective: look at Jason Brown and Kori Ade. 

[Skittl1321]

My rink must just be bizarre.  Of our registered coaches, 5 are male and 1 is female. The female mostly subs LTS though, I think she has 1 private student.  The three coaches who make their full time income coaching are male, the other two men are part time and have a few private students and do LTS.

[nicklaszlo]

Not so bizarre.  We have ~10 male coaches, only one of which has a non-skating job that I am aware of.  Females are more numerous.  My rink is unusually diverse.  We even have an african american male coach.

[SynchKat]

We have lots of male coaches too.  A man that I skate with sometimes used to have me come into skate with him because there were no female dance coaches. 

[Sk8tmum]

Guys jump and spin differently once physique begins to differentiate. Once puberty hits, a coach needs to know how to accomodate that.  Which means that they have to have experience in successfully coaching male skaters.

Being female doesn't mean you can coach females. Being male doesn't mean you can coach males.  Gender doesn't determine coaching ability: knowledge, teaching ability and skill does.

We were lucky to find coaches who knew how to coach a male jumper. It made a difference. 

Spins - you need somebody who knows how the male body bends, and the male spin variations.  That can be either a male or a female coach. We did have a male coach that taught spins, but he was an excellent spin coach, and was equally successful with male and female skaters, as he had experience with both.

[jjane45]

Guys jump and spin differently once physique begins to differentiate. Once puberty hits, a coach needs to know how to accomodate that.  Which means that they have to have experience in successfully coaching male skaters.

Good point! I would think it really does not matter until doubles / higher spins. Definitely non-factor at LTS.

And as many of you pointed out, it's about the coach's knowledge and technique, not gender.

My rink is unusually diverse.  We even have an african american male coach.

Our skaters are equally diverse   More male African American coaches if you also count Larry Holliday and skaters who sometimes coach

[nicklaszlo]

if you also count Larry Holliday

I've only seen him in summer?  Maybe?

[Nate]

I really could care less for opinions, and it's not generalization.  It's the truth.  The sport is female dominated, both on the athlete side as well as with coaches.  There are coaches who have never had a male student so there are certain issues that they simply aren't experienced in dealing with.  At least a male coach who has skated would be able to offer targeted advice with these issues, even if they've never taught a male skater they have likely had personal experience dealing with them.  A female probably would be learning on the job, or send you to another coach to fix it (which doesn't happen at a lot of smaller rinks, as coaches are afraid their students will "like" the other coach more and drop them).

When I decided I didn't want to put up with Female dominated rinks I moved 1300+ miles and found a good male coach (thanks to someone on this forum, BTW) and made a ridiculous amount of improvement in a short time largely due to him better understanding my issues and being able to offer targeted advice which was not universal to all skaters.

I have no issues with limiting myself as long as I'm willing to make the move to rectify the situation, thank you :-)

If I get stuck at a level and there is an experienced female coach 700 miles away that can help me get over the hump and improve further, I will just as easily consider that move at well.  And why not.  This is too big of a physical and monetary commitment for me to take lightly.  I have goals, and I need to do what needs to be done to accomplish them.

[jjane45]

There are coaches who have never had a male student so there are certain issues that they simply aren't experienced in dealing with. 

Nate, if you don't mind sharing, I am interested in the types of issues you were experiencing, and what specific elements / skating levels they are associated with, if any.

Rinks in my area always have quite a few guys, and I bet all coaches at least worked with boys in group classes, and most in privates as well. If the issues are specific to adult male skaters, then it may be different.

Thanks for a great discussion!

[Clarice]

If there are indeed significant differences in the way males and females need to be coached (and I have no reason to doubt what Nate is saying), I think this would make a good topic for one of the continuing education courses we need to take for our USFS coach certification.  I would certainly take it if it were offered.

[twokidsskatemom]

I find it interesting that people complain about the lack of coaches. We have two male coaches in our whole state  one  who has a boy who should place in the top 5 at nat and one who went to nats.  That is all we have.
we go to slc to train in the summer and my son takes from a women coach, and she has  3 boys going to nats next week.
we also have no pro shops, no place to buy skates for either sex, no place to try on anything
We also only have lts coaches where  we  live .You know there are always those who have it worse, at least we have year round ice.

[Nate]

I find it interesting that people complain about the lack of coaches. We have two male coaches in our whole state  one  who has a boy who should place in the top 5 at nat and one who went to nats.  That is all we have.
we go to slc to train in the summer and my son takes from a women coach, and she has  3 boys going to nats next week.
we also have no pro shops, no place to buy skates for either sex, no place to try on anything
We also only have lts coaches where  we  live .You know there are always those who have it worse, at least we have year round ice.

None of that really matters to me because instead of putting up with it, I moved and all of those issues you state were worse where I come from and do not exist here.

Now, instead of spending $150-200+ driving to Houston and staying overnight to make sure my blade were adjusted properly on my boot, I drive 25 minutes and have a guy do it and if it's not right I drive back, and it costs like $10 in gas or less.

There are 3 Rinks here within 30 minute (two within 15-20 minutes) and another within 45 minutes or less..

There are like 10 males coaches, and if I didn't like it I could just go to Baltimore, Philly, or Wilmington it's not far.  I have one and see no reason to switch in the distant foreseeable future.  We work well together.

We have one of the best skate guys here.  He's like 30 minutes or less away.

At the bolded:  It sounds a bit like an Oxymoron.  The fact that you're okay with having "almost none" in your whole state doesn't mean that I have to be fine with having none at all.

Additionally, I can really care how many pro shops there are anywhere.  Unless you like in a rather big skating city, they're all bound to be pretty terrible when it comes to Adult Male skating Attire and Equipment.  They simply don't stock them, so it doesn't matter.

Lack of Pro Shops was an issue for me because of the amount of adjustments I had to get done to my blades and boots.  I have spend thousands of dollars traveling back and forth to get that fixed, and I didn't ever get it put on my boot correctly until I moved up here, had my blades moved back to my stiffer boots and had the guy here mount them.  Being able to skate in a boot without insoles for more than 10 minutes is quite a revelation...  I don't even understand how I managed to do anything with those SuperFeet in my boots, after feeling the difference.

Chalk it up to a difference in "perspective."  All I know is that other people that weren't in my position (a pretty good one) have and probably would have just given up and moved on to something that was productive and didn't cost nearly as much as this sport does.

P.S.  Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.

[twokidsskatemom]

My point is  that others have it worse. Can you tell me how you had it worse , since you don't know where we are from.
some people cant move but glad it worked out for you.
And I have a boy skater, I was just telling you at least here girls and boys are the same. I cant drive anywhere,  I would have to fly to seattle at least, and we live in North Pole Alaska.
and there are others that have it worse than we do, those in other countries.

[FigureSpins]

P.S.  Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.

If you're taking lessons with one coach, you just have to let them know that you'd like to work with a different one.  You can set it up to be a secondary or temporary relationship without switching coaches.  I've done that with my skaters when needed.

As an aside, the coach you approached might not have wanted to give you free advice and tips.  Some people (not saying you) do try to take advantage and ask for coaching with no intention of ever taking lessons.  After spending a lot of time giving tips and recognizing that they're giving away their knowledge for free, most will change their policy. 

My point is  that others have it worse. Can you tell me how you had it worse , since you don't know where we are from. Some people cant move but glad it worked out for you.

And I have a boy skater, I was just telling you at least here girls and boys are the same. I cant drive anywhere,  I would have to fly to seattle at least, and we live in North Pole Alaska, and there are others that have it worse than we do, those in other countries.

I agree.  Here, the half-dozen male coaches are at rinks more centralized around the capital city.  They all coach at multiple rinks within a 20-min radius.  My rink is out of the way, so unless someone could promise them a full slate of students to make it worth the trip, they'll only come here for tests and competitions.  (Mind you, this is at most a 45-min trip for them, but to commute that far for one lesson isn't worth the travel expense.)  It's a business decision.

[sarahspins]

P.S.  Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.

Not exactly.  What is unethical is for any coach to approach you and offer unsolicited coaching advice, which is referred to as interfering, or to coach you without your other coach knowing about or approving of it (known as poaching).  You going to them and talking or inquiring about taking a lesson is a different situation, and the appropriate initial response from them is to make sure that it's okay with your coach.  Assuming it is okay (and it is really very common for skaters to have more than one coach), then there is absolutely no conflict involved.  Most people overcomplicate the issue with ethics - from your standpoint as a skater, there's really not a whole lot for you to worry about - you aren't breaking any rules by just talking to another coach. That means it's perfectly fine if you were to go talk to another coach about equipment or clothing or whatever that may effect you differently as a male skater - because it's not related to instruction.  If you are asking about something on the ice, then yes the ethics do come into play, but it's really not as complex of a system as most people assume - all it is in place for is to protect everyone involved, not eliminate networking.

[FigureSpins]

discuss skating with them on a technical level

That's very different from "where do you buy skating pants?" or "should I buy a different brand of skates?"

The PSA Guidelines state that "It is not ethical to give free lessons to the student of another coach."

Having a technical skating discussion is a form of lessons.  Doing so with someone else's student, without their knowledge, is unethical.

That's why I suggested he pay the other coach after informing his primary coach. 

[twokidsskatemom]

fact that you're okay with having "almost none" in your whole state doesn't mean that I have to be fine with having none at all.

None of that really matters to me because instead of putting up with it, I moved and all of those issues you state were worse where I come from and do not exist her

I never said I had almost none ,I have none. I also didn't say you had to be fine with it, I did say that some people have it much worse than you.Again, how do you know if  you had it worse than anyone else.If you choose to complain, expect people to tell you how things are other places.

[Nate]

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