Figure Skating from a Man's Perspective

[ONskater74]

Lots of suggestions here. Thanks.
I did contact a Skate Canada coach, arranged a meeting, showed up, and no coach....
Finally the club president came over handed me a brochure and basically told me to get lost. Either I skate with them on their terms or I'm consigned to outer darkness and gnashing of teeth. They are the only game in town, very elite, very complex structure, no one dares work outside the official system...except a few jaded souls who skated professionally in ice shows and so forth. The club ice times are etched in stone, and they all are during working hours, as I said when I work I'm not home until late.
Public midweek skating where I am is pretty much "whatever you want", no policing. I wish there was someone to apprehend the idiot young adults (teenage couples home for reading week?) playing tag and crashing into you. I can usually find a quiet spot to lay out my figure. People still skate through it but that's ok. Weekend public skates are just a madhouse with 500 kids blindly charging around and chatting in groups...I never go!
I've come pretty far with the little bit of coaching I've had. I'm a self starter, and I like crossing barriers. I'm in south eastern ontario halfway between Toronto and Ottawa, a bit closer to Toronto. Lived in Campbellford for 15 yrs but now live along the lakeshore. 6 rinks within a half hour drive or so.

[Sk8tmum]

Okay, what is sad is I know EXACTLY what club you referred to ...

Anyways, that makes you in EOS. Have you been on their website? You can also contact their office ... and ask them for the clubs that are in driving distance.  It's a part of the Section that I'm not as knowledgeable about, as I'm more COS-centred. There are links there to all of the area clubs, and they usually have their schedules online.

www.skate-eos.on.ca

Let me know how it goes - if it doesn't work out, I can do a bit more digging for you.

[jjane45]

The club ice times are etched in stone, and they all are during working hours, as I said when I work I'm not home until late.

I don't know when do most figure skaters practice in Canada. Around here working adults without extended lunch breaks usually try for the 5 / 6 / 7am practice sessions. Yes they are either early or crowded, or both.

When do most kids figure skate in your area, other than afternoons?

[ONskater74]

jjane, The schedule they gave me has all sessions between 5-7pm, after school/early evening. This is when the kids skate. There are no other times. afaik the rink does not open until 8am... Could be wrong on that.
I skate on my days off at midday, midweek "Mom and Tots" (isn;t that a wee bit sexist and quaint? its usually Dad and Tot if there are any tots at all..) public skates. Not many people, sometimes I'm the only one.
Laid out three figures today on the hockey lines, hardly anyone there, and nobody using the middle...just senior "lappers"circumnavigating the rink.

I want to say that I'm used to being a man in female dominated activities. Up until 2 years ago I was a horseback rider. I fell in love with horses at summer camp age 10. From then on I had a pony, then a succession of horses (lived on a farm), eventually owning as many as eight at once, breeding mares, stallions, and boarding for others. I began riding Western but switched to English in my early 20's. took dressage lessons, taught myself jumping, hunted with the local hunt club (kennels were next door and I was the "guesting landowner" as they exercised and rode on my place). When I got the internet I would go on an equestrian forum and be literally bashed and beaten by all kinds of women who, having taken a few lessons on a leased horse and entered a competition, now was the ultimate expert on everything equine... How could a man possibly have anything useful to contribute
It is a bit tedious. So I'm okay with working outside the Box. The world is a big place, and no one can stop me from skating except myself I just do my own thing.

[Sk8tmum]

I don't know when do most figure skaters practice in Canada. Around here working adults without extended lunch breaks usually try for the 5 / 6 / 7am practice sessions. Yes they are either early or crowded, or both.

When do most kids figure skate in your area, other than afternoons?

Some of this is sweeping generalization, but, it applies to about 95% to 98% of the situation that applies here ...

In Canada, figure skating ice access doesn't run the way the US system does.  You don't have ice to figure skate on unless you belong to Skate Canada.  All clubs book and pay for ice for their members that is exclusively for their members; members register as part of the club, and then can use the ice. GEnerally, you register for a session or more based on your skating level - and the club controls who can use that ice and how many are allowed on.

There is no "public" figure skate ice. If you are a Skate Canada member, and there is what is generally called "ticket ice" in Ontario, you can then use it for skating - you register and pay. However, you are not allowed to use it unless you are registered with SC, due to liability issues, and there can be controls for skating level and numbers on the ice. Also, if you have not passed Canskate (LTS) Stage 5 - you must wear a helmet on all SC ice.

Most clubs run ice in the evenings and on weekends. Clubs in our area run ice up to 10 or 10:30 at night, and some start as early as 6:30 a.m. on weekdays and 8 a.m. on weekends. A few "skating academies" have ice during the day. But, again, only for club members, and these are often elite skating establishments.

You are not allowed to figure skate on public skates.  They are strictly for leisure and skating in circles. Someone doing figures is likely to be forbidden, too, as you must, simply, skate in circles in the same direction as everyone else.

So, long and short of it is: you have to join a club to get ice, and a SC coach basically is not supposed to coach you unless you are a SC member.

[ONskater74]

Exactly so sk8mom.
I booked and paid for an hour of ice with my private coach. $100.00/hr and the rink is all yours...  

Thankfully I've been figure skating at public skates for 3 months with no issues. Stay out of traffic and be friendly.
I had a little tyke wobbling along behind me yesterday with starry looks in his eyes...like a puppy. Probably the only man he has ever seen in real life figure skating

[retired]

 If you are on Facebook, search for Canadian Adult skaters,or Canadian Adult Nationals , something like that and there are definitely adult skaters in your area.

Many rinks have daytime ice , dead ice, for cheap, you just have to know the secret password and the right rink guy.  Coaches know them all as well. 

[Query]

I know this is an old thread. But I asked a relative who is a psychologist if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.

She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are usually better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).

Skating involves both. But, as an artistically judged sport, maybe small distinctions determine who is best among elite athletes.

OTOH, I asked her whether male and female sports emphasize those things that males and females are best at because they are typically best at them, or vice versa - i.e., which is cause and which is effect. She said psychologists have no consensus on those sorts of questions.

So maybe it isn't an answer at all...

[jjane45]

...if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.

Honestly, from a technical point of view I don't really see it, either at the elite level or looking at skaters around me. (except for flexibility, but men are not pressured to do bielman spins, and at recreational level it's not significant as long as the camel position can be achieved)

Peer pressure and social expectations on the other hand...

[rachelplotkin]

She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are [u[usually[/u] better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).

Wow!  Who knew the field of psychology was so sexist?  Fine motor skills are required for many professions which had been male dominated (i.e., neurosurgery.) It's this type of stereotyping which can hold someone back from pursuing an interest/passion.

[ONskater74]

...and as long as I'm wearing my glasses, I can hand sew a seam that looks machine stitched....

[Clarice]

I know this is an old thread. But I asked a relative who is a psychologist if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.

She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are usually better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).

Skating involves both. But, as an artistically judged sport, maybe small distinctions determine who is best among elite athletes.

OTOH, I asked her whether male and female sports emphasize those things that males and females are best at because they are typically best at them, or vice versa - i.e., which is cause and which is effect. She said psychologists have no consensus on those sorts of questions.

So maybe it isn't an answer at all...

I don't think it's a question at all.  I don't think skating is easier for women than men.  There are certainly more women and girls in the sport, but I don't think that's the reason.  I also wouldn't say that skating involves fine motor skills.  Edge work is certainly exacting, but you're still using relatively large muscles to do it.  It's not at all equivalent to doing needlepoint or playing the piano (activities which are also not easier for women than men).  And I'm not a psychologist, but in the psychology classes I took for my education degree I never heard that one sex or the other was supposed to be better at gross or fine motor skills.  I think this discussion is based on a false dichotomy.

[jjane45]

...and as long as I'm wearing my glasses, I can hand sew a seam that looks machine stitched....

Where could I buy these magic glasses?    LOL j/k

[Sk8tmum]

Men are expected to land more and more difficult jumps (quads, etc) at the higher levels. Even at the mid levels (Novice, PreNovice in Canada) men's programs tend to be longer and have more jump passes.  That is one critical difference. 

[Query]

Not sure about freestyle, but Ice Dance coaches have told me that there were very fine distinctions made between which body parts move (e.g., small shoulder shifts instead of large arm and hip motions).

Anyway, these kind of questions can't be answered with certainty. I give up.

[ONskater74]

jjane... cheap drugstore readers

I do think the overwhelming presence of women figure skaters generally is a deterrent to the average "guy" on the street who might not be a skater but who is interested. Frankly for a guy to fall down and wobble around on skates in front of a rink full of women/girls is more than most normal guys are up to. I'm not saying this to justify the fear, just to say that it is an insecurity that most men carry with them. We want to show off our talents/prowess/strength/etc and the curve from 0-60 is daunting when you are skating in a fishbowl surrounded by females watching your every trip and fall.
So unless you can find an all male skating academy...or private lessons at a private rink...there won;t be a flood of guys taking up the sport any time soon. In weight lifting a guy can go to the gym, and feel safe among other guys, they will give him tips, recommend stuff, treat him as equal, etc etc and regardless of his beginner status the fear factor is not there... When I was a young teen I went to the Y to lift weights, and the older guys there were respectful of a pretty skinny kid. The mental perception men carry around...

Figure skating is far more taxing to learn and far more physically demanding than many other sports which men typically take up. Perhaps a lack of patience on the one hand, and time on the other, deters some men? For me, however, the satisfaction of slowly conquering obstacles, tackling each new skill, is worth any initial discomfort I might feel in terms of being the only guy in figure skates at the rink. I do it for me. If people laugh at me for falling while learning a new turn, or botching a turn, then let them laugh... I respect everyone who does their best and displays a sportsmanlike attitude. 
Any organised sport, whatever it is, will flourish or falter depending on who does the organising. In Canada, where I live, there is no encouragement whatsoever for adults of either sex to take up figure skating from the organising body, Skate Canada. It is run as children's after-school and weekend activity. The language used on Skate Canada club websites always refers to "parents of skaters", without exception. The intention is plain...bring your kid, pay your money. So unless you start as a kid with parents who have the money to fund you there is nothing they have to offer you. Club executives look at you like you're nuts, coaches won;t touch you, and so very few men take up figure skating because they can;t get lessons. Frankly without lessons from a coach figure skating is almost impossible to learn. Everything Skate Canada does is designed, inadvertently I presume, to discourage the sport of figure skating among the general population. Its a good thing for them they have a gov't sanctioned monopoly on the sport...   That way they can maintain it as an elitist, female dominated sport, run by women for women. 

[Sk8tmum]

^^^ It's a shame your experience has caused you to have such a negative perception of Skate Canada. Your experience is certainly not reflective of all clubs nor all regions.  And, Skate Canada certainly does encourage adults; and coaches certainly do enjoy teaching adults, of both genders; and their is certainly very strong support in Canada for male figure skaters from our governing body.

When I initially took up skating (again) as an adult, I had no shortage of places that offered Adult LTS, and had my choice of coaches ... and, frankly, as a parent of a male skater, I had to fend off poaching and solicitation at a ridiculous rate; there is such a shortage of guys in skating that we were videoed, taped, chased by coaches... granted this is for a developing and then competitive skater, but, we rapidly discovered that the boys were treated like precious commodities and garnered an inordinate amount of support from clubs and SC due to their smaller numbers ... and I have had discussions with more than a few adult male skaters who have expressed similar experiences re: the support they receive from clubs.

In terms of adult programs; I'm not sure where you're seeing only reference to parents of skaters in their material?:

From SC's website, re Canskate (the LTS program that Skate Canada operates):

CanSkate is Skate Canada's flagship learn-to-skate program, designed for beginners of all ages.
When you/your child registers for a CanSkate program at your local Skate Canada club, you also become a member of Skate Canada.

Then, the entire Adult Skate track:

Skate Canada Programs: AdultSkate
Adult skating is growing in popularity and more and more clubs are offering recreational, test and competitive opportunities to this segment of the population. Adults participate in CanSkate, STARSkate and CanPowerSkate programs as well as on synchronized skating teams. Adult championships currently provide opportunities to adult skaters to experience the challenge of a competition in a fun, social environment. Skate Canada is currently expanding its programming in this area.


If you also examine the new LTAD model, you'll see a new adult track for age 18 to 25 in addition to the long-standing track for 25+; and if you look at comp announcements, you'll see adult events; if you get a chance to look at bid packages for comps you'll see that one of the "requirements" to submit a bid is the willingness to include adult events.

I'm sorry you've had an awful experience in finding support from SC.  Many others have had a far more positive experience. 

[nicklaszlo]

So unless you can find an all male skating academy...or private lessons at a private rink...there won;t be a flood of guys taking up the sport any time soon.

Pools have female only swimming sessions.  Maybe rinks should have male only sessions.  I'd go, but only because it would be less crowded.  "My religion forbids me to skate in front of females, honest!"

(I don't care what the other skaters think of me, and generally they have been positive.  The one time I recall being laughed at, it was by a non-skating mom, when I was doing a move for the first time.)

[ONskater74]

Name me one club that offers the full Adult Skate program in Eastern Ontario outside of a metropolitan area like Toronto Ottawa or Kingston....
The front page of most Skate canada sites are full of the PR spin keywords, flagship, all ages, blah blah... Go to the club sites and read the constitution or reg forms..." Parents of skaters must ensure...blah blah..." "when you register your child...." Go to the rink and you have a viewing area full of well-off parents watching their tween or whatever. No boys at all. nada

I suppose if you're a boy skater working your way through the system and doing well...then yes, they want you. Otherwise? Get lost. 

I have a job that requires long hours on most weekends and I have to skate on days off. End of story.

[retired]

Clubs can't afford  to run the full adult skate program, eg separate sessions, because it takes at least 12 skaters to break even, possibly even more and only large areas have that amount.  And it's an old discussion but at a certain level of competence adults prefer to skate straight Star sessions.

Canskate is something like 85% of all the skaters in Skate Canada and generate most of the revenue for a club so it is marketed that way.

Some of your concerns about being a man are valid.  Parents don't seem to mind adult women in with their kids but will comment, and negatively, about men.

I sent you a PM.

[retired]

Also consider taking a road trip for lessons, there are some adult friendly coaches, and ticket ice in the Toronto area and you can go once a month to do  a couple of hours.  You'll crawl home and it's all very expensive but then you can practice on moms and tots.  I'm not making fun of you, I used moms and tots ice when rehabbing from knee surgery a long time ago.  People would give me skating advice since I looked like a newbie and was petrified of falling.

[ONskater74]

Hi slusher,  I skate on mom and tot ice all the time   Midweek public skating is listed as "mom and tot". Put your change in the tin and skate for 2 hours with only a few others.

[Query]

The Canadian ice issue could be a bit off-topic, doesn't Canada have a fair bit of outdoor ice?

[Sk8tmum]

Name me one club that offers the full Adult Skate program in Eastern Ontario outside of a metropolitan area like Toronto Ottawa or Kingston....

Hmmm ... two in the EOS that come to mind:  Whitby runs an Adult Learn to Skate program that does the Canskate program late on Monday nights; and Oshawa has an Adult Canskate that runs at the same time as their kid's Canskate... it runs Sunday mornings.  Those are just two that I'm aware of from friends in the skating community ...

There are more in the GTA.  But, you were looking for programs outside of the GTA, of course.

BTW: the mom and tot thing? Be very very careful in assuming you can use that - I have seen many people who have been summarily removed from those sessions.  Depending on the arena/region/muncipality, it is strictly and only for a parent and a "tot", the definition being an under 8. It's all dependent on the culture of the arena.

Query:  Canada has lots of ice.  But, you cannot practice figure skating on public sessions. They are just there for skating in circles peacefully. And most "true" outdoor ice is pretty hacked up and your blades are going to be toast very fast.

[jjane45]

Thread split may be really helpful, lots of information on adult figure skating in Canada.