cheating?

[falen]

hi,  I just looked at a competition schedule and noticed something.  A girl took her Pre Pre FREE SKATE test in January and passed (we were there to congratulate).  She just competed this weekend at no test (and won) and she is scheduled to compete at no test again.  To make sure, I looked up the tests recieved for January on the USFS website and sure enough there she was under Pre Pre Free Skate.  SHould I say something?  She is competing against a very close friend who is truly no test, not to mention the other girls.

[Skittl1321]

You could say something.  Many local competitions though go by your test level at the time the papers are turned in though.  It is only qualifying competitions where you ALWAYS disqualify yourself by testing up.

You would need to look at the entry paperwork before you make a fuss, for sure.

[sarahspins]

Agreed, the test level at the time the paperwork for the competition is what matters - if she passed a test after the comp paperwork was turned in, or that paperwork was due before her test date, it may not effect her level just yet.

[falen]

well I know for this one the paperwork was due in march which is way after the test was taken.(how do I know?  I was negligent in turning dd's papers in time and did not want to pay late fee so I bagged it )   And the paperwork says no free skate tests passed for no test.  I have to say, if my dd was competing in her group, I would want someone to speak up if this is truly cheating.

[Sk8tmum]

When we send in test forms, our test chair/club president has to sign it certifying levels, which prevents this.  I guess your system is different.

However, I have had experience with many competitions where the "qualifying date" is some months before the competition OR registration date; comps in February/March have a "test date" of November for example, meaning that unless the test was passed before November, it didn't matter.  I would pull the original announcement, if you have it, and look at the qualifying date. 

Given how vigilant parents tend to be on competitors, and it sounds like you can publicly check test levels ... I would be surprised that somebody would pull something like this?

[nicklaszlo]

Maybe the girl's parents have no idea what a test level is?

[falen]

Given how vigilant parents tend to be on competitors, and it sounds like you can publicly check test levels ... I would be surprised that somebody would pull something like this?

Who is going to check hundreds of skaters?  I will look at the papers.  But if it turns out shady, what would you do?

[falen]

Maybe the girl's parents have no idea what a test level is?

but shouldn't her coach?  Coach put her on the ice and will again.

[hopskipjump]

Why would anyone want to win at no test that badly? 

Ours is done online and yes, our club checks every member and competitor.

To answer your question, I would let the registrar know if I was 110percent sure and I would sign my name to it - not do it anon.

[falen]

why, don't get it, i would think its not satisfying to win at a lower level.  However at camp, there was a teen doing doubles but competing at no test to "win more golds"(her words).  Another girl lied about her age in a basic skills comp.  So, it could happen.  But she did not take any FS test, so it was legit right?

[Sk8tmum]

why, don't get it, i would think its not satisfying to win at a lower level.  However at camp, there was a teen doing doubles but competing at no test to "win more golds"(her words).  Another girl lied about her age in a basic skills comp.  So, it could happen.  But she did not take any FS test, so it was legit right?

It happens. Lots. For some parents and skaters and coaches it's all about the medals.  It's one of those things that you need to take into account when choosing a coach... Coaches who sandbag are out there.

[falen]

Why would anyone want to win at no test that badly? 

Ours is done online and yes, our club checks every member and competitor.

To answer your question, I would let the registrar know if I was 110percent sure and I would sign my name to it - not do it anon.

I didn't think you can email anonomously.  

[falen]

It happens. Lots. For some parents and skaters and coaches it's all about the medals.  It's one of those things that you need to take into account when choosing a coach... Coaches who sandbag are out there.

I know it happens.  DD's first big time comp at no test had 2 girls who passed intermediate moves test, but no frees.  I saw that test...if you can pass those moves, you can skate pre preliminary at least!

[hopskipjump]

Sure you can.... yahoo accounts are free.

[Sk8tmum]

I know it happens.  DD's first big time comp at no test had 2 girls who passed intermediate moves test, but no frees.  I saw that test...if you can pass those moves, you can skate pre preliminary at least!

Dunno about that ... my non-jumping kid has Canadian Gold Skills, but, still can't land doubles OR an axel (except when the moon aligns with the stars and I cross my fingers tightly and click my heels 3 times and mutter "rotate rotate rotate").  I think your pre-pre has axels and stuff, right?

Anyways, don't let it drive you nuts.  Used to drive me nuts too, until I figured out that it wasn't worth it.  Who t'heck cares about entry level medals?  Many coaches who are building competitive skaters push 'em up fast, even if they are ending up in the bottom, so that they keep getting challenged. Just smile and go ... and in the end, often, the kid who has won tons'o'medals at the baby levels ends up quitting when they do move up a bit and stop winning medals, whereas the kids who have just been chugging along and working away end up sticking with the sport.

[hopskipjump]

the kids who have just been chugging along and working away end up sticking with the sport.

Very true!

[falen]

how about I just write to have them look into a possible error.  Because back to my original thing, dd's friend will be competing against her.  and a group of other kids and they really deserve a fair shot.  No point in writing to the comps that have already happened, she got the gold move on.  Of course I could see how happy the girl who got silver would be to find out she got gold because the other girl was entered incorrectly.  Gee its like 2002 oly!  

Oh should I give the mom a heads up?  I don't want to worry her needlessly if this plan will prevent any badness.

The reason why I post here is that I get a better perspective from a third party that has no stakes in the matter.  Normally, I'd ask a friend, but all the friends would pretty much have a stake in the outcome.  So I really appreciate the responces.

[hopskipjump]

If a parent were to involve me, I'd be upset.  I'd hope that everyone who had the facts was adult enough to tell the skating officials directly.  Otherwise it just looks like gossip.

[falen]

If a parent were to involve me, I'd be upset.  I'd hope that everyone who had the facts was adult enough to tell the skating officials directly.  Otherwise it just looks like gossip.

I would be upset too, another thing to worry about which I do not want to do to her (why am I so observant?!!! if I did not notice, I would not be up so early in the morning), and better for someone with no personal interest to bring it to the officials, yes?

Am I too meddly?   I want to be the change I want to see today.

[fsk8r]

Perhaps it's an honest mistake. I know one mom was entering her kid for competition at the same time the kid was testing. She managed to enter her in the lower category by mistake, she was used to ticking that box. They were honest and contacted the organiser and the referee was left to make the decision. Because they were slow in telling the organiser it was after the draw and the referee said that her hands were tied so the kid at to withdraw. Had it been before the draw the referee was quite prepared to move the kid to the correct category.

I would contact the competition organiser if you're certain of the facts and leave it to them to sort out. Or else speak to the mom involved so that she can contact the organiser.

[drskater]

I have a slightly different take on this situation.

We all know that there is a huge variation of skill and abilities at any given test level. Does a skater who has passed Pre-preliminary really have a significant advantage over the skaters who are no test? That is, technically it appears that the "cheater" in question is skating at the wrong level, and (as pointed out above) this could be a result of an administrative error, parental/coach error, or another kind of scenario as much as it could be a case of sandbagging. Yet "no test" skaters  seem to have pretty advanced skills these days--the category simply means "no test," not necessarily not advanced (from what I can tell it's a "level" for skaters who don't have axels). From my own observations, I'm not convinced that a Pre-pre skater competing against a no test skater is an outrageous miss match. 

You're talking about one or two events at one competition, right? This is something that may not mean much in the long run.

One the other hand, YOU have much more to lose by making a stink over this issue. Figure skating is a clubby, clique-y, gossipy world. Even if you you are 100% correct about the sandbagging, do you really want to develop a reputation as a skating mom who cried foul about a no test event?  There is too much at stake in the long run to risk. Given how much work you'd need to do to "expose" the cheater,  you will be perceived as the worst kind of interventionist skating mom. I know you think you're upholding a principle, but given the low stakes,  this is not a fight worth winning. In other words, pick your battles carefully in the skating world.

I'm sorry this has upset you so much. Don't worry, it'll get better.

[falen]

Counting this next one with dd's friend, that would be 3 separate comps at no test after passing the FS test.  (yes I found another) What about telling the girl's coach and let her handle it?  I am torn about telling the mom.   I don't want to put her in the position of "sour grapes".  

[Skittl1321]

I wouldn't approach the coach- they have to be aware, as they signed the test papers.

I'd just go with the competition registration chair and say "I saw X on the schedule for no test.  She passed pre-pre, is that the correct event?"

Or, not say anything at all.
That said- around here there is a BIG difference between pre-pre and no test, but our kids test sooner.  No test kids are just out of basic skills.  In other areas, no test kids have lutzes.  It depends on what the level of competition is how much of a fuss you want to make.

[FigureSpins]

First of all, don't assume anything and don't talk about cheating, sandbagging, etc.  That just makes you look like a busy-body, especially since you don't have a dog in this fight, lol.  I know you feel aggrieved, but stalking the kid online isn't doing anything positive for the situation.

As someone pointed out, you want to take the high road at all times and protect yourself and your daughter.  You don't want to get a reputation as overwrought or meddling.

I've seen several cases where competitors were on the schedule for an incorrect event.  In one case, it was, without a doubt, an honest mistake on the entry form (Pre-Prel instead of Prel) that wasn't caught until the morning of the event.  The ref moved her to the correct category before the warmup.  The girl and her family are the nicest people, the coach is usually on the ball, it was just a mistake.  I didn't say anything when I saw the initial schedule and I wish I had because then the competition would have gone smoother if the error had been corrected earlier.  They had to change all the competition lists, posting sheets, make sure the CD was in the right envelope, etc. etc.  I was glad the competition volunteers were willing to correct the error, because the skater had worked really hard on the program.

Parents get confused with the titles and the forms and the checklists; mistakes happen.  While forms are supposed to be verified and signed by a club officer, online entry has changed that task substantially.  Every competitor is still supposed to be verified, but now the competition chair sends lists to each coach and home club.  The coaches and clubs are supposed to verify that their skater(s) are registered for the correct event(s).  Sounds like that's fallen (no pun intended) through the cracks.

I hear what the OP's saying though: three competitions in the wrong category, with the test passed well before deadlines -- that's wrong.  Someone's dropped the ball.

Out of courtesy, assume it's an honest mistake.  Don't tell anyone other than the competition chairperson and/or the skater's club test chair.  A short note or phone message saying "I think there's a mistake on the schedule - () is registered for No Test freeskate, yet she passed Pre-Prel back in January. I thought you'd like to know as early as possible in case she has to be in a different warmup group."  

Don't bring up the research you've done through test results and competitions, and don't write an essay.  Two lines is all you need to give them the information and walk away.  If anyone thanks you, just say "No problem - mistakes happen." or "I figured it was a typo - glad I could help."

Let them do what they will with that information, you will have done your part.  If the skater continues to register for the wrong event, just mind your own business.  If others start gossiping about it, just change the subject.  Don't chime in with "I told them back in April that she was cheating."  

As you've been told before, don't bad-mouth the skater, parents or coach.  It just bounces back in the long run, as drskater explained.

[falen]

thank you figure.  That was one of the senarios I was bouncing in my head.  I really feel in a bad situation.  If dd's friend and mom found out I knew the girl was in the wrong category, lets face it, they would probably be very angry with me for not saying something.  And if I said something to them, then they have the added worry.   Really I can't win in this situation, because someone will be upset with me, either the pre-pre no test camp or dd's friend and family.