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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by Query on Today at 12:03:59 PM »
Thanks!

Interesting that the USFS is apparently worried about blades that are not sharpened to be flat or with a concave shape, and/or for blades whose width varies by more than a "slight" amount. Perhaps those rules are just there just in case there is an advantage, rather than for any known advantage. Though the first part might be to make edge changes observable.

A bit off topic, but perhaps they need more explicit equipment rules for tests and competitions. Blades with circular picks might make spin and pivots & turns easier. A skater could push a button to extend the toepick or tail, or make the blade wider, only when desired. More elastic boots or insoles or actual mechanisms could store energy for higher jumps, and faster spins and rotations. Audio or augmented reality devices used in tests and competitions could provide guidance and feedback (perhaps even coach feedback) on patterns & program elements. The absence of rules invites their eventual use. Perhaps they are already covertly used. :)

Some of these ideas would be fun for recreational use!
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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by LunarSkater on May 19, 2024, 07:28:36 PM »
Local competitions, at least in the US, are required to follow USFS rules. USFS rules can be different than ISU rules. ISU rules are applied at international competitions and in the US, at the Junior and Senior levels. Because those are the levels that compete internationally. If you're ever interested, a good examination between the two is the difference in how Adult skating is handled nationally vs the two Adult ISU competitions. The rules are different for program lengths, allowed elements, etc. The US has a large enough adult skating community to have our own national program. Most other countries do not.


Because artificial materials do not breathe like natural ones. Its why hockey padding stinks so badly. It's made out of foam, which can't be laundered. Same for boots like Edea. The materials absorb odor and do not release them like natural materials. A lot of the internal padding in skates depends on what brand and boot you purchase and how far you're customizing if that's the route chosen.

I have no idea what products work and what don't. What skaters choose to use - or not - is their business. The best way to combat smells is to open the skate up and take it out of the bag. Too many people don't do that, which is why some skates can stink a lot worse than others.
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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by Query on May 19, 2024, 12:46:06 PM »
In my years of assisting with skate sharpening, any non-leather material stinks to high heaven if not taken proper care of. Padding in the boots, the material the boots are made out of, the socks stuffed into the toes to wear again... Yes, your hockey boots will hold more funk than a leather skating boot.

There are, BTW, a variety of rules about the size and nature of markings on blades at the ISU website. I'm not sure to what extent local USFS approved competitions (or Skate Usa competitions) have to conform to ISU rules. I don't know if all hockey blades conform. But I wasn't thinking of using hockey blades for figure skating - just hockey boots.

There are a bunch of products and procedures advertised to prevent or reduce boot odor, e.g., https://thorogoodusa.com/how-to-keep-work-boots-from-stinking (note they suggest treating the feet as well as the boots), https://www.reddit.com/r/Boots/comments/16ow4qr/work_boot_stink_tried_everything/?rdt=54974 (someone suggested vodka!), https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-a-bad-stink-out-of-a-pair-of-boots, standard antiperspirants and deodorants (or both), ozone, fungicides, etc.

Do you know if any of them work well for everyone?

I don't understand why leather would stink less than plastic and plastic/fiber composites, since I would think it would absorb sweat more.

If it's because leather makers add "tanning" chemicals like chromium sulfate to leather so it doesn't rapidly decompose, that ought to be possible for non-leather materials too. If it's because leather breathes, which helps get rid of sweat, I'm not sure how true that is of high level figure skating boots, which have stiffening layers. Anyway, many socks wick sweat away.

I've never noticed much of a smell on my skate boots (which admittedly are leather), hockey and speed skating boots (both of which I only used a little), hiking boots (also leather), ski boots, or tennis shoes - but my sense of smell isn't all that great, and my feet don't sweat much. But maybe if I used hockey boots a lot the problem would be worse.
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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by LunarSkater on May 18, 2024, 07:15:50 AM »
I vaguely remember it being against USFS rules to use hockey boots (or blades) for tests - is that out of date? I might try to pass USFS Pre-Bronze skating skills.

Perhaps composite hockey skates stink more than leather figure skates.

Hockey blades are allowed for skating skills tests, according to the current rulebook:
6037 Skate blades: Figure skating blades used during competitions and tests (or hockey skate blades used during skating skills
tests or skating skills events at competitions) must be sharpened to produce a flat to concave cross section without change to the width of the blade as measured between the two edges. However, a slight tapering or narrowing of the cross section of the blade is permitted.


In my years of assisting with skate sharpening, any non-leather material stinks to high heaven if not taken proper care of. Padding in the boots, the material the boots are made out of, the socks stuffed into the toes to wear again... Yes, your hockey boots will hold more funk than a leather skating boot.
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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by AlbaNY on May 08, 2024, 04:36:09 PM »
Hi Query,

The only input I have is that in street shoes I can’t stand heels over about an inch maybe inch and a half.  I think my skates have a “normal” heel?  It said custom or special on the order form but was the same as my old pair and a few others I acquired (1 3/4” I believe offhand.)

From what I read some brands pitch skaters forward with a bit more heel to help with jumping?  I’ve seen some interesting YouTube videos of people trying out antique skates, and from books also I saw that in the distant past the heels were a lot lower.  This is circa ‘20s maybe ‘30s.  I’d love to try some if I could.
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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by Query on May 07, 2024, 11:26:43 PM »
This guy put figure blades on hockey boots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7yuz1Ccero

But he shimed the rear to create a raised heel. I might instead shim just so the surfaces match, but not raise the heel, or not as much.

I was thinking of using wood for shims, because it's cheap, light, widely available, easy to work, and accepts wood screws. But he cuts a hockey puck to shape, which is pretty cheap and widely available too, and is already black.

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The Pro Shop / Re: A discussion: Skate choices
« Last post by Query on May 07, 2024, 10:38:35 PM »
BTW that shop also fits custom figure skates from Jackson, Riedell, and Edea (he was trained by David Rippon to reshape Edeas); says Jackson custom skates only take 8 weeks (unlike Harlick's 1.5 years) and are cheaper, though they don't customize as much. He could look at my feet later to decide which brands I custom boots I could use.

BTW, Mike doesn't think dropping the raised heel is a good idea. But I have always hated them.

That shop did a truly awful job, about 20 years ago, of fitting my full custom Klingbeil boots. But it is under new management - Mike is the main guy's new name. The skate tech who messed mine up (and at least a dozen other people's that I know of) is long gone.

I've previously discussed these things in more general terms with the guy in charge of the pro shop at Bowie, and may also discuss them with they guy in charge at the pro shop at Ashburn, who has very good reviews.

But I would appreciate any comments you folks have on the reasons for the raised heel and the strong upwards bend, and on the idea of mounting figure blades on hockey boots.
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The Pro Shop / Considering figure skate blades on hockey boots
« Last post by Query on May 07, 2024, 10:30:01 PM »
I'm thinking hard of using good hockey skates for this. I like the idea of not having a raised heel, or an upwards bend along the boot length.

Two days ago I tried to spin and jump on hockey skates, without removing the blades. I hate toe picks, but discovered I've become totally dependent on them, and basically couldn't. Also, I need to avoid backwards leans.

So I need to remove the blades (harder to do on some hockey skates than others, and I need to remove the rivets), and adding my figure blades.

But maybe my current blade length is too long without raised heels? Because to some extent, it is the vertically projected length of the foot that should matter to blade length.

The person who runs the pro shop at Gardens Ice House in Laurel, MD, USA, pointed out to me today that hockey skates do have raised heels - in fact they have mostly been raised 3 cm higher than they used to be a few years ago. And they are roughly as high as figure skate heels. In the case of hockey skates, the "heel" is in the blade holder, rather than something that looks like a high heel, as in figure skates.

But where hockey and figure boot insole shapes differ is in the upwards bend near the ball of the foot. There is much less upwards bend in hockey boots.

Yesterday I bought used hockey boots: Bauer Vapor 500 model for $75, in very good condition, though the blade runners, which are easily replaced, have some wear. I showed them to him, and asked about heat molding - he said he would charge $50.

They only require 175 degrees F to heat mold - more or less achievable with some handheld hair driers.

I have previously been unwilling to use a regular home oven, because their temperature regulation is poor. But,
https://www.icewarehouse.com/lc/skates/how-to-bake-a-hockey-skate-at-home.html
points out a fix - use an oven thermometer, and insert the boots after turning the oven off. Page gives very detailed directions.

I didn't have time to ask what he would charge to remove rivets, or whether he carries the bolts and nuts that could hold figure blades on hockey boots.

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The Pro Shop / Re: Sharpening woes in Europe
« Last post by AlbaNY on May 06, 2024, 04:17:19 PM »
Today I sharpened before skating (skipping the tape,) and it felt really good.  I suppose I went too long although it was less hours than I normally go.
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The Pro Shop / Re: Sharpening woes in Europe
« Last post by Bill_S on May 06, 2024, 12:12:15 PM »
FWIW, I always felt faster with more glide after a fresh sharpening. That could be translated into "less sticky", I suppose.
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