Does a boot punch actually work?

[nicklaszlo]

I have a boot punch similar to the one Agnes Nitt has.

https://skatenow.us/index.php/shop/product-sidebar-5/hoke-tool-boot-stretcher

In my experience, it does not work very well for fixing painful spots on boots. 

I have big feet and I buy very stiff boots.  Does boot punching work for your figure skates? 

Does it work better if you have smaller feet (and presumably a correspondingly smaller painful area)?

Does it work for boots that are not super stiff?

[Query]

I am sorry you haven't had good experience with these. My own experience with another generic punch bought mail order has been quite different. Then again, I mostly used them most effectively on "soft dance" leather boots. It might be less effective on high level freestyle boots. I did use them for a while on high level leather freestyle boots made by Graf (Graf Edmonton Special), and they helped some. I also tried them, to no effect whatsoever, on another type of high level boot - but the latter were designed to heat mold at 260 degrees, if I remember right, and my hair drier couldn't get that hot.

Leather is typically formed to shape using a combination of pressure, heat and moisture. Pressure alone is not as effective.

Remind me - what type of boots are you using? I doubt pressure alone would do much for composite materials (e.g., carbon fiber+plastic resin), like you find on Edea boots, or high end hockey skates, though composite materials should be heat molded with a lot more care. I've only tried it on leather. At one point I think you discussed visiting the Harlick factory, presumably to get custom boots. I would have hoped they would build/mold the boots to fit your feet perfectly, so you wouldn't need a heat mold. Also, could you find out from the manufacturer, what temperature your particular model boots are supposed to be heat molded at?

Can you describe how you used the punch, for how long, and what else you used? And about how much (e.g., how many mm or fractions of an inch) stretch do you need?

[Query]

I assume you realize that the screw is probably only a "set screw". I.E., it is not strong enough to tighten down to put sufficient pressure on the leather. Because while the set screw MIGHT be steel, the threads it is tightening against are just cast iron - not a very strong (easily deformable) material. Instead, you use your stronger hand - possibly with the help of a a pliers with a lot of leverage - to squeeze tight on the leather, and use your weaker hand to tighten the screw. There are other brands and models that look like they are real steel, - but I haven't personally tried them.

One problem with most of these tools including yours is that the leverage works the "wrong" way - your hand moves a shorter distance than the ball and ring. That means you are putting less pressure on the spot than your hands squeeze with. I don't understand why they are made that way,  though of course it would take more metal to make the handle that long.

BTW, the boot press at a good skate shop - or a good downhill ski shop - can manage much higher pressures.

Also, it helps a lot if you warm the spot, inside and out, before stretching, with a hair drier. Up to about 100-140 degrees, but be careful, because heat can also undo the stretch on other spots. In effect you are doing a spot "heat mold". Theoretically you could take it up to the temperature that your boot model is designed to be heat molded at, but be really really careful not to heat other spots. And moisture helps - though I admit it isn't good for the leather. I have sometimes used a bit of "shoe stretching oil", but it doesn't help much. If you have doubts that your laces can take the heat, take them out first - in fact, even if not, that makes it easier to work your punch all the way down to near your toes, if that is needed.

Again, you should do this to get as tight as you can. Wait an hour or so. Repeat, tightening it a bit more. And again. And again. Wait a day or so if you can. And tighten again. And let it sit some more.

Don't forget to put a thin soft cloth on the outside of the boot, if you care about leaving marks on it - but I don't bother. And it makes the stretch a bit less effective.

I have slightly more detailed directions at http://mgrunes.com/boots/BootPain.html.

[Query]

Also, especially if you need much stretch, it helps to redo the fit every couple weeks or so, if you can. Because leather gradually goes back to it's originally molded form. I don't know if this is true for your brand, but Don Klingbeil told me that in their factory (now closed), they did that original boot molding at the factory to form the boot on a "last" at higher temperatures, and using very high pressure, using "low temperature steam" (perhaps just a little below the boiling point of water), but I would stay away from that - it is possible that the boot has things glued, sewn or inserted in it after factory molding that can't take that high a temperature. Plus, steam would tend to migrate, and would distort other parts of the boot.

I hope that helps. If not, replace your insoles with something much thinner, so you have extra space, and pad your boots to fit.

[AlbaNY]

The kind you pictured did not seem to do anything for me, but the kind my skate tech has worked great after being pressed for a few minutes while sharpening the other skate.

Query, when I ordered my custom Harlicks I was told that although custom they require heat moulding.

[supersharp]

I have the bench-mounted boot punching device and I use it every week to help someone who either has new skates or is feeling an odd pressure spot...and I have also used it on my own shoes when needed. 

If the hand tool isn't working, see if you can find someone with a bench-mounted unit.  Hockey players also use them, they just have to heat the shell to allow it to deform.  I have used mine on hockey boots as well as on both leather and synthetic figure boots.

I use a thick piece of leather between the cup side and the boot so that I don't leave that ugly ring on the side of the boot where it is punched.  Unless it is an ankle pocket, it seems to work best to punch the center of the area that needs it and then lightly punch around the perimeter of that area so you have a gradual transition to the expanded area. It also makes the punched-out area pretty unnoticeable, which isn't critical but why not make it look good at the same time that you make it feel good?

[nicklaszlo]

Where can I buy a good bench mounted punch? 

[nicklaszlo]

Remind me - what type of boots are you using?

I have used the punch on Jackson, Risport, and Harlick boots.

[nicklaszlo]

Don't forget to put a thin soft cloth on the outside of the boot, if you care about leaving marks on it - but I don't bother.

Ha!  My "nearly new" boots are absolutely covered in toe pick marks.

[Bill_S]

Where can I buy a good bench mounted punch?

Blademaster sells one. They are mostly known for their sharpening machines, but do have other accessories.

https://blademaster.com/web/en/skate-service-tools/421-sc6000.html

$534

[supersharp]

Blademaster sells one. They are mostly known for their sharpening machines, but do have other accessories.

https://blademaster.com/web/en/skate-service-tools/421-sc6000.html

$534

This is the boot punch I have.  It works really well. The price is a killer, though.  I was lucky enough to acquire mine without being bankrupted.

[supersharp]

Ha!  My "nearly new" boots are absolutely covered in toe pick marks.

Toe pick marks are a sign that you are working on hard things! 

Giant ring-shaped marks are not the same, and I think you get a better punch-out when the final product has a more gradual expansion from the original configuration to the punched-out configuration.  My heels are very locked-in at the back of the boot, so the more I flex my ankle, the more my big toe joint gets pulled back from the front of the boot.  If I punch a single mushroom-shaped spot for my big toe joint, then I find that when I do an Ina Bauer, my toe joint gets pulled back and jammed into a tighter spot in the boot which is incredibly painful. 

Ankle pockets are a little different, but I still see no reason to make a skate look ugly when you can avoid it by spending 1 second placing a piece of leather under the cup side of the boot puncher. 

[Query]

I think the punches of the sort the o.p. showed are actually intended for stretching normal shoes, consisting of one layer of thin leather. Which is why it is hard to get them to do a good job on high end figure skates. Even reasonably high end leather skates have an inside and outside leather layer, are much thicker, and usually contain a heat moldable layer of something fairly rigid like plastic.

There ought to be something in between the price ranges of the devices mentioned here, which can do a little better job than the low end ball-and-ring pliers like the o.p.'s device. Say, a good quality steel boot punch (also called ball and ring pliers, hoke and ball pliers, bunion stretcher) whose screws are strong enough, and have a big enough handle, to produce somewhat more pressure. Has anyone used one? I hate having to spend so much time re-stretching my boots.

In practice, I often just leave the tool I've got, which looks quite similar to the o.p.'s, on one or another part of the boots when I'm not skating. That tends to keep them stretched. Though in my case, part of the problem is that the boots were misfit, and more than the usual amount of stretch is needed. But a good tool that could produce more pressure easily might eliminate most of the nuisance.

[tstop4me]

The company that makes the Incredible Edger sharpener also makes the Tender Spot Eradicator bench mount boot punch.  The list price (not sure it's current) is $575, in line with the Blademaster punch.

http://www.iceskateology.com/Skateology/tender_Spot_Eradicator.html

Here's a Youtube video from Skater's Landing using the unit in their shop:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyPdwRuw7X4

[tstop4me]

Edge Specialties, maker of the now discontinued Pro-Filer, also made a hand-held skate boot punch.  It's part of the product line they sold to Wissota, and still available through Wissota.  It's a lot cheaper, $100.  Haven't seen any reviews though.

https://wissota.com/product/boot-punch/

[Query]

I have heard of people who use vice grips on the cast iron tools. I tried it. It is a bit awkward to handle a second tool at the same time, partly because you have to position it so it doesn't get in the way of the boot, but it kind of works.

Has anyone here used the Edge Specialties / Wissota tool, and compared it to the common design cast iron tools? It looks small enough to put in a skate bag, unlike the one from Blademaster, and the ones I've seen in skate and ski shops.

Some of the boot press tools look too big to fit in my relatively small figure skates - e.g., the several models at https://eastcoastskiing.com/product/ski-boot-punch-tool.

I've never used an infrared thermometer - I wonder if they could measure the temperature of the spot heat well.

At the higher end, there are boot presses that have adjustable thermostatically controlled spot heat built in, that some ski shops use, though I don't know what temperature ranges they are designed for. I guess one obvious advantage is that spot heat is hard to control inside your boot, especially near the toebox.

Anyway, back to the o.p.'s question, boot punching with the tool he bought can work, in small areas - up to a point, if you work at it, and you have fairly strong hands. Up to roughly 1/2 (U.S.) boot size at the ankle bones, but perhaps 1/4 size in the toe box. Maybe the higher pressure presses with thermostatic temperature control can do more.

[Kaitsu]

Edge Specialties, maker of the now discontinued Pro-Filer, also made a hand-held skate boot punch.  It's part of the product line they sold to Wissota, and still available through Wissota.  It's a lot cheaper, $100.  Haven't seen any reviews though.

https://wissota.com/product/boot-punch/

I made such a pliers by my selves and in my opinion they are quite useless. The problem is that jaws are so long compared to the hand grip force. They are better than nothing, but I believe you need to keep the pressure longer (at least over a night) than with some other tools which has more power.

This kind of pliers works better
http://sharpmastersport.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=54

Our local skate team has this kind of vice (but with stronger body) and it works too
https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/home/clothing/footwear/accessories/70649-spot-shoe-stretcher?item=09A0675

This might also interest DIY people
http://www.sports2k.com/forum/index.php?/topic/43909-how-to-make-a-hockey-boot-punch-for-under-20-hockeyhack/

[Query]

How fast can a tool that gives adequate pressure (presumably combined with spot heat and moisture) work?

Am I correct that the SharpMasterSports tool link address is in Russia, which many of us cannot buy from, due to a trade embargo?

I like the idea in the DIY link. I guess a good C-clamp would give much better leverage than the ball-and-ring pliers, and far less clumsy to use than squeezing a ball-and-ring pliers with vice grip pliers. But the drilled pipe ends might not create a rounded enough shape - I wonder if it could tear the boot fabric if not done right.

Maybe one could just attach a C-clamp to the lever arms on the ball-and-ring pliers with duct tape.

I guess one one could just squeeze the arms of the ball-and-ring pliers with a vice. Perhaps once it is squeezed tight, the set screw is strong enough to hold it in place, and one can take it out of the vice. Not an elegant solution, but some of us already have both a ball-and-ring pliers and a vice. I may try it. I hope I don't break the ball and ring pliers - perhaps I should use safety googles.