Troubleshooting aching feet, aching lower leg muscles, and weakness please?

[AlbaNY]

Hi, this is my first post after doing a bunch of reading in the past months and finally being able to create an account. 

I'm an adult beginner.  When I was a kid I messed around on ponds with my mother's old thin leather skates and considered it success to stay upright and move around.  This winter I grabbed some Softecs off Amazon and headed to the new municipal pond, and with the new boots I found I adored skating and could begin to works on crossovers, one foot glides and edges, and skating backwards.  I practiced as much as I could get someone to mind my preschool aged daughter, and the boots felt great.

With time I noticed how really they were too large especially when spring arrived and I switched to group lessons at a rink and wasn't using thick socks for northern NY winter conditions.  I ended up with a pair of leather boots, had a new set of blades put on, and with a bit of punching out found them very tolerable.  (The first day from switching felt unpleasant after sneaker-like boots.)
They felt better each time, and I progressed happily with the weekly group lessons.

Then I had to take a break due to moving continents.  When I began skating again my lower leg muscles were quite unhappy the first time, which is understandable, but luckily my boots suddenly felt super comfortable... for two sessions... I'll get to that next, and I got stronger after maybe an hour into the sessions,
But I'm finding that the painful weakness happened again today when I just skated last Friday, Thursday, and Wednesday.  Is this just needing to build muscle and take time or can I help in some way with certain exercises? 

When it happened last week I expected less of a problem today after skating four hours so recently, but I felt quite bambi-like and took a long time to get to practising crossovers or edges and such.  Perhaps there has been *some* improvement, because I didn't feel like my blades were skittering across the ice like I had at first last week or back when I first switched boots, but I'd love some input if I'm doing something foolish... like cutting off blood flow at my ankles today, ha.  (I had read that the skittery feeling could be from ankles being too loose, and I overdid it clearly.)
I had tried lacing my boots much tighter and my feet ended up hurting too much after half an hour Friday.  Today I left them looser at the feet and ended up tying the ankles too tight.  Eventually I figured out the mistake and could skate again after loosening them.

Is there an optimal tightness that someone can try to explain or perhaps different lacing style? 
Lastly, I wondered if I should put my Superfeet back in (replaced them with partial insoles for more toe room,) but if I don't try this until the lesson and it feels awful then I'm really wasting time. 

Today I skated thinking to give myself a break tomorrow so I wouldn't be sore for my lesson Thursday, but now I wonder if I ought to at least skate a little instead?  Unfortunately I can't really warm up on ice (to get past the first foot and leg cramp feelings I always seem to have for maybe at the ten-twenty minutes for the feet and leg weakness for some time after.)  The public ice sessions don't begin until 10, and the lesson with my coach is earlier when evidently outside coaches and students are able to skate, but that information isn't posted nor is it clear if I'm purchasing the usual 1.5hour session with my ice fee.  There was a language barrier when I asked workers there today about how it works, but I always see serious skaters either being coached or randomly skating at other times. 

I suppose I'll have to ask my coach all of this, but I'd love to figure out about the pain if anyone has suggestions of working it out before the lesson.  (Especially since I'm new to private lessons and the etiquette of it all and feel nervous.). Just a vote for skating tomorrow vs taking a break would be helpful.

Thank you!

[MCsAngel2]

It's not totally clear to me if you have skated again since the session that you had unexpected Bambiness on the ice. I once had the exact same thing happen, near the beginning of when I took up skating again as an adult. It was just one really really bad session I gave up on after 15 minutes. I later figured out that the ice at that rink that night must have been much harder than it usually was. In the US, most rinks make their money from hockey leagues with some public or freestyle sessions here and there, and ideal hockey ice is quite a bit harder than ideal figure skating ice. Harder ice will make your blades skitter and will cause involuntary muscle clenching for newer skaters, if you aren't used to it. What you describe sounds an awful lot like what I experienced that time. It sounds maybe like your rink may not be consistent about the temperature the ice is at, if sometimes you have this problem and sometimes you don't.

[AlbaNY]

Thank you for your reply. 

Yes, I have skated a few times since the Bambi feeling.  I don't really get that same extreme feeling now but do find it takes a very long time to warm up enough to work on edges or crossovers, both in terms of feeling in control enough to and most annoyingly the muscle soreness in my lower legs.  That's where I'm not sure if I need more time on ice to build them or some kind of stretches, patience, some kind of change in how I'm tying the skates, or what. 

As far as skitter, yes, the rink ice was very hard in NY.  Here the rink is in a mall, and I was surprised at how melty and soft the ice was.  All the deep grooves and uneveness could cause the clenching you describe though.

[AlbaNY]

Hi, I've been wanting to update for a week or two now.

I had been wanting to say that after a couple of weeks the start up pains went away, a little better each skate.  It seemed that I just needed to build the muscles back up?  My coach had the explanation that I was curling my toes upward, and that did feel correct, and it felt better when I began to be able to point them down.  (It took some time to get to be able to will that.)
Another problem had been lacing.  It took me a while to (mostly) get a consistent sweet spot of not too loose and not so tight in various parts that I'd get cramps or an ache in parts of my foot. 

After a couple of lessons and many practises I felt very, very confident and good at the start of the week.  I've had to spend a half hour+ just skating backwards in front of my almost 4-year-old since last week, because summer school break happened so I got her skates and began teaching her, but she lets me skate alone for another half hour+ after, and I felt so strong by then. 
...Until my lesson today.  It was abysmal for the first half hour with me feeling somewhat unstable and pathetic with everything I already knew (although my coach said the outside and inside edges didn't look as faltering as they felt to me.)
I had the shin muscle pains badly at the warmup again, and I can only think that the difference is that I wore some high heel platform sandals last night to a party, and I hadn't worn anything but closed toe Birkenstocks in months.  Bad idea, I guess?  I hope it was only that, because it was just a demoralising first half of the lesson.  (At least it picked up when my inside edges were good enough to boost my mood, and I ended up being able to do cross rolls on my own and whatever you call it when doing two forward crossovers switching to two in the other direction all along the straight line.  Coach happily said that I looked like I'd done those forever despite only figuring them out at all today...)

I saw a lot of mentions of the same kind of shin problem by another member in some of the old threads (the ones with various names for sharing highs and lows of ice time.)  I'd started to think it was just an adult thing to deal with, maybe, until it went so much better.   I hope I can maintain a better consistency, because it is frustrating for me (and probably for my coach, I think, though he is kind about it) to vary so much in ability from session to session. 

[Bill_S]

Thanks for the update. I recall having shin pains after I began skating again as an adult, and it went away over time. For me, I suspect that it was just a matter of getting muscles conditioned in those areas.

After still being off ice for about 1-1/2 years now (thanks, COVID!  ), it's possible that I'm going to encounter the same things again once I get to skate again.

[AlbaNY]

Thanks for the update. I recall having shin pains after I began skating again as an adult, and it went away over time. For me, I suspect that it was just a matter of getting muscles conditioned in those areas.

After still being off ice for about 1-1/2 years now (thanks, COVID!  ), it's possible that I'm going to encounter the same things again once I get to skate again.

Hi Bill, you are the skater I was talking about in my update!  I am still slogging through really old threads, maybe 2016?, so I am reallllly pleased to hear that your shin pains did go away with enough conditioning.  I just spent some time reading through my skating log and saw that I made more progress than I felt now, but it is frustrating to feel pain and wobbly after being capable.  Sigh.

Oof, that's a long time off the ice... I wish you the best and hope that your shins acclimatise quickly!  As I said about reading old threads, I appreciate all the posts you've made. 

[Bill_S]

Yeah, I posted a lot in the old threads. I tended to skate a lot too, so I get lots of words in. 

One of the hazards of a seasonal rink like ours is the long time between seasons. I guess that re-initates old foot and leg pains, and I'm finding that it gets worse as I get older. 

Heck, I don't even have to skate to have foot pains now!

[MCsAngel2]

Thanks for the update. I recall having shin pains after I began skating again as an adult, and it went away over time. For me, I suspect that it was just a matter of getting muscles conditioned in those areas.

After still being off ice for about 1-1/2 years now (thanks, COVID!  ), it's possible that I'm going to encounter the same things again once I get to skate again.

Ugh, makes me feel better that it's not just me. My last day on the ice was 1/27/20. I was going to brave it a few weeks ago, but I got the skates out and put them on and they were super painful, even just sitting at home! I'm going to have to get them baked again first.

[AlbaNY]

I wanted to update on this problem in case it helps someone.

I just had a break of a few weeks skating, and I think Bill is correct that it is partly due to the aches after breaks.  I'm also sure I needed to build up some muscles that hadn't been used in such ways as for skating, but I have a new piece of information.

In the summer when this was a problem I used gel sleeves thinking it was a great idea while getting my (unusually fragile) skin used to the top edges of my boots.  At some point I stopped using them at around the time that my skating got much better and these pains that I asked about went away.  I thought I had built up the muscles and acclimated to skating. 
Then I had to have a skating break due to a vacation and my rink suddenly closing for maintenance.  I ended up going back to the US for a visit and in order to skate a bit during the time my rink was closed, and I also had a bunch of Amazon packages waiting for me.  One package was a new pair of gel sleeves, and I decided to wear them the last day I could skate there.

They were a large part of my problem!  I couldn't believe it.  All the struggles with lacing suddenly returned despite having been long sorted out.  Nothing felt right and I got the cramps again until re-lacing a third time.  Something about the sleeve messed up my ability to find a happy medium in lacing, and I skated awfully that day and with much discomfort despite having felt very well the previous times.  (Unfortunately it was super cold, and I'd worn the sleeves under bamboo Mondor tights which were under skate pants, so I couldn't really fix the problem in a short hour session.  Bad idea.) 

[Query]

There are lots of aches and pains that can come from a poor fit. E.g., if the bottom of your foot needs support in a place that isn't getting it. E.g., at one point I was well supported on one side of my feet, but not on the other, so I needed to use over-use muscles to compensate for the lack of good contact. Other people need more or less pressure under the medial arch of the foot, or more or less pressure under the forefoot or hindfoot. A good rule of thumb is that the boots should fit with roughly equal pressure everywhere, though many people feel that there should be a little looseness over your ankle just ahead of and just behind the leg. But some people with medical issues need somewhat unequal pressure.

Again, I used to have heels that were way too high for my relatively inflexible feet. (I'm a guy, and don't get any other practice wearing high heels. I couldn't healthily point that far.)

I learned to experiment by putting cloth athletic tape under insoles where I needed more support, moleskin on the insides of the uppers, and to stretch the toe box around my rather wide toes. Eventually I learned to cut my own custom insoles out of camping mat foam, to the exact shape I wanted.

Again, many skate boot soles bend upwards forwards of somewhere near the balls of your feet. But if it isn't in the right place, it can hurt you badly - even fracture bones. That too can sometimes be modified with tape.

But it is also true that using muscles you haven't used much in a while can make you sore.

I hope you find a good solution.

[AlbaNY]

Thanks for the input, Query. 
My boots have been nice and comfortable for a couple of months now aside from sometimes having the top edge cut in (thanks to a collagen defect that makes my skin super fragile among other things.)  So, it was a big surprise to find that the gel sleeves made such an unpleasant difference.  Maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised given that street shoes and boots are such a disaster for me too.   

[icepixie]

For the top edge of your boots cutting in, I wonder if you could put just a bit of padding (couple layers of moleskin?) right under the top edges where it cuts in to push them away from your skin. So not on the piece that cuts, but just below it, so there's an air gap between the edge and your leg. I did this with edges of a tongue that cut into the top of my foot and it worked pretty well.

[Query]

I admit I don't understand why gel sleeves caused a problem.

If they were loose enough to rub against your skin, that might POSSIBLY explain it. Or if you have an allergy or sensitivity to the materials they are made of. But I'm not sure how much sense either makes. If you had very high pressure from the gel sleeve, it could have been cutting off your circulation.

Are there any spots on your foot where the fit is very tight? (E.g., I originally had high pressure on the sides of my big and little toes.) If you stretch the leather there, you can alleviate that. Among other things, that might cut circulation, and also force other parts of your foot to bend in an uncomfortable way. In the long run it can also create major foot health problems.

I think a lot of people simply experiment, until they get it right. A sports podiatrist, preferably one who has treated skaters (or if none exist near you, ballet dancers, because they jam their feet very tight into shoes too)  might help, but they are expensive - and sometimes they have to experiment too. But if you don't find a good solution soon, you might check whether your health insurance would cover a visit or two. A good sports podiatrist might be worth a try.

Are you by any chance in upstate NY, near Ithaca? I know a well respected sports PT/athletic trainer there. I'm not sure if he handles this sort of thing, but maybe he could help.

[supersharp]

Gel sleeves push my ankle and heel too far forward in my skate. I can't stand them. I have custom insoles, so when the sleeve moves my heel forward, my foot is not lined up over the correct part of the insole. I use a gel pad at the front only, just to relieve pressure against the tendons at the front (lateral and medial sides of my ankle. Works great for me.

[Query]

Gel sleeves push my ankle and heel too far forward in my skate. I can't stand them. I have custom insoles, so when the sleeve moves my heel forward, my foot is not lined up over the correct part of the insole. I use a gel pad at the front only, just to relieve pressure against the tendons at the front (lateral and medial sides of my ankle. Works great for me.

If you were to glue or tape something to the underside of the tongue (e.g., moleskin), would that prevent your foot from moving forward?

When I cut my own custom insoles, I make them a bit wide in places, so it wraps around my foot where my foot is thinner than the boot. That way I have pressure against the sides of the boot, close to the bottom, and I get enough friction that nothing can move. I don't know if that would work for you.

It is possible you paid someone to make your custom insoles, and can't modify them that way. But (I know this sounds complicated), you can trace around those insoles on foam, then cut the foam to the same height profile as the custom insoles (take measurements with a calipers or micrometer), and just widen it a bit. Make it a little too wide, then cut it down til everything feels right.

Of course I can't guarantee that will work for you.

The truth is, I don't really measure, other than the initial trace. I cut it too big, out of camping mat foam, and trim it, in 3d, with a good pair of scissors, until everything feels perfect. It took me some practice and a fair bit of patience to figure out how t make that work for me. And my issues are a bit different than yours. Plus, if you paid someone to make your custom insoles, making your own might make that seem like a waste of money. And camping foam eventually compresses, so you may need a new pair every month or three, depending on several factors.

[AlbaNY]

Icepixie, thanks for that tip.  From memory and not actually looking at my boots I don't see how that would work for their problem spot.  I'd have to fold the moleskin over the edge, and I've been avoiding that look.  The inside is really padded, but maybe when I take a look I'll find a way. 
Thankfully the skin healed now.  I periodically have terrible blister issues with even my most reliable and comfortable shoes as a constant plague. 
I need the rolled edge welt type of finish to my boot tops, I think!

Query, it is strange isn't it? 
Currently I'm back in Romania, but I'm pretty north of Ithaca.  It's a manageable drive if I ever need to see someone like that, but my feet are pretty happy now.

Supersharp, that's so interesting that you find the sleeves cause problems too.  I just saw the gel pad (for lace bite) kind of sleeves on Amazon too late to order those before flying out.  I think that could work for me in the future since it is only one area.  For now I cut up the oldest sleeves to put under a band aid if I need to. 

Currently the spots are healed and fare happily if I stick band aids on just in case.

[supersharp]

When I'm skating a lot, I use KT tape to protect the skin at the front of my ankle right where the foot connects. Free dance requires a lot of deep knee bending and my skin starts to abrade and blister if I'm skating more than 3 hours in a day. I'm amazed at how much difference it makes to just have that layer of fabric tape on there to prevent rubbing. I used to put blister bandaids in that area, which worked well for the skin but caused the gel in the bandaidsto become permanently embedded in my skating tights.  It's hidden, so it doesn't really matter, but the KT tape works just as well and doesn't leave the icky goo residue so I prefer it.

[Query]

I haven't needed Band-aids for this. But for the most part, I don't use Band-aids for anything anymore. Paper first aid tape - available at the dollar store, or elsewhere - sticks a little better. (However, if something bleeds, the blood seeps through, so if it is bleeding I add a layer of cloth first aid tape - also from the dollar store, though to be honest, Johnson and Johnson brand cloth first aid tape is better, because it is easier to tear to shape, and it only tears in two directions - along the length, or at right angles, across it. But J&J tape is more expensive.

In fact my entire first aid kit now consists of one roll of paper tape, and one roll of cloth tape. (I also carry a pen-knife on my key chain, with a tiny scissors and a tweezers.)

(I wonder if the pen knife - less than 2" long - is legal under airline and train safety rules... I haven't taken either recently.)

[supersharp]

My tiny Swiss Army knife with scissors was confiscated by TSA last month.

[tstop4me]

My tiny Swiss Army knife with scissors was confiscated by TSA last month.

Meanwhile I once sat next to a woman who was knitting with 12" long knitting needles.  She told me she flew a lot (this was pre-pandemic) and never was stopped from bringing them on board. 

[Query]

My tiny Swiss Army knife with scissors was confiscated by TSA last month.

Oh!