How long can you stand on one foot on the floor with eyes closed?

[Query]

I joined someone in a fitness class at a retirement community, with people in their 70's - 90's. One of the exercises was to stand on one foot, in socks and shoes, with eyes closed. The instructor wanted them to do it for 20 seconds. While most of the elderly people in that class needed to cheat, the instructor (who has a college degree in exercise science) said it was a fairly normal skill, that most people can do.

I can only do it for about 2-4 seconds at best, no matter what position I assume. To tell you the truth I can only do it with eyes open for 5-10 seconds. (I can do it, eyes open, for longer on the ice in a moving skate, but motion tends to stabilize the blade, and maybe it is also a matter of practice.) This means that I have become extremely dependent for my eyes on balance. If the instructor is right, much more so than most people.

So guys, is she right? How long can you do it, eyes closed, on the floor? (Barefoot, in socks, or in shoes, whatever works best for you.)

(Please be safe. Don't risk hurting yourself.)

[Bill_S]

Doggone it - That's a lot harder than I thought!

The longest with my eyes closed was about 5 seconds, and I was squirming around trying to stay upright.

With my eyes open, it was easier, but I did 20 seconds only once out of 5 tries.

[masterblaster]

Wow, I just tried it, and with eyes closed, it's very unnerving! That was surprising because I've noticed that, since I started skating, I can balance on one foot for a very long time.

With my eyes closed I was able to it for juuuust 20 seconds, but I was fighting for it the whole time.

I've got to try that again.

(I also wonder if it makes a difference how tall you are and how low your centre of gravity is...I'm relatively short and bottom-heavy, so I have an advantage there.)

[Clarice]

I found it quite easy on my left foot, but I could barely do 5 seconds on my right. With eyes open, I could do 45 seconds on the right foot, and easily a minute on my left - could have gone longer. Interesting. (I'm 5'6" and 61 years old, and was doing this barefoot.)

[Bill_S]

That's impressive!

I wonder why some people have a harder time? Like Masterblaster, I can balance on one foot gliding on a skate until I am almost completely stopped, but this exercise is particularly difficult for me.

[nicklaszlo]

4:15, barefoot, dominant foot.  I lack the patience to try again.

Story:  Years ago, my sense of balance stopped working.  I was sent to therapy.  For the initial evaluation, the therapist asked me to do this for 30 seconds.  The therapist said I did it just fine, but that I turned green.  It certainly felt terrible!   I had no idea most people could not do that. 

It turns out lots of ice dancing gave me really good ankle proprioception, so I can balance without my vision or inner ear balance sense.

[rd350]

I can do a minute on either leg eyes open (longer) and eyes closed but 20 seconds eyes closed is absolutely not the norm (or expected) in the age group given.

[Bill_S]

You guys are unbelievable! 

Why can't I do that?

[MCsAngel2]

I can't do it either, my longest with my eyes closed is 2-3 seconds.

[Query]

I wonder if it is a good thing to practice it. In particular, if one learns to sense balance by means other than one's eyes, might that help even when one has eyes open? Sounds plausible, but I have no idea if it is true.

I guess I will try to learn.

But based on the responses, it is clear that I am not alone - many people haven't learned this skill to the extent that the instructor claims one should be able to do. But some of you have.

I wonder if there are correlations between being able to sense and compensate for balance well without vision, and motion sickness. I have had some problems with motion sickness, and they were worst in an aircraft that had no windows, so I could not see the horizon. And I can't spin on the ice very well - could there be a correlation there?

A bit off-topic, but, in retrospect, it is pretty remarkable that cutting only 2 or 3 mm, or so, with a moving skate blade, into the ice, creates sufficient sideways forces to hold one securely and effortlessly upright as we skate. It makes sense in a "displacement hull boat" (like fast sea and slalom kayaks, or most naval ships), that pushes up waves to each side as it moves forward. Each side of the boat pushes against, and is pushed against, the water. If one side lifts out of the water, it no longer has much push, and the opposite side force pushes the boat back upright. (There are also "planing hull boats", like speed boats and many whitewater playboats that mostly push water downwards instead. They handle quite differently.) But why is only 2 or 3 mm or so of ice enough to stabilize a skater? It is stiffer, but maybe part of what the stiffness of the ice does is simply to slow down tilting motions, giving the skater time to compensate...

[masterblaster]

I can't do it either, my longest with my eyes closed is 2-3 seconds.

Oh hey, I happened to read something that made me think of you a couple weeks ago, and is relevant to this thread...I can't find the exact article right now, but it was about people who've had strokes apparently benefiting from doing certain physical therapies with their eyes closed, I think specifically to regain balance.

I don't know if you experienced this as part of your recovery, but I thought it was a really interesting idea!

[MCsAngel2]

Oh hey, I happened to read something that made me think of you a couple weeks ago, and is relevant to this thread...I can't find the exact article right now, but it was about people who've had strokes apparently benefiting from doing certain physical therapies with their eyes closed, I think specifically to regain balance.

I don't know if you experienced this as part of your recovery, but I thought it was a really interesting idea!

It's puzzling, for sure. This thread had me thinking about it this morning. I never had any apparent balance deficiencies, that we know of (just speech issues that went away within a few months). I suppose it could have affected it on a minor scale, where I wouldn't notice it, but it would make a difference when on a skate blade.

The other thing I remembered, was that 4 years ago, I got an inner ear virus, and developed vertigo. Full out attacks, that got closer and closer together. I had it for 2 months, it was easily the most miserable I've ever been. Fortunately the ENT was right that it was just a virus and it would go away on it's own. I wonder if that hurt my balance too.

[rd350]

Yes it is most definitely a good thing to practice.  You rely more on proprioception with eyes closed.  You should do it bare foot though, that will give you more input into the bottom of your feet.

You can also add or use as a transition, one-legged stance on a cushion.

I'm surprised by the result people have posted.  I thought more people would be way closer to being able to do this.

I wonder if it is a good thing to practice it. In particular, if one learns to sense balance by means other than one's eyes, might that help even when one has eyes open? Sounds plausible, but I have no idea if it is true.

I guess I will try to learn.

But based on the responses, it is clear that I am not alone - many people haven't learned this skill to the extent that the instructor claims one should be able to do. But some of you have.

I wonder if there are correlations between being able to sense and compensate for balance well without vision, and motion sickness. I have had some problems with motion sickness, and they were worst in an aircraft that had no windows, so I could not see the horizon. And I can't spin on the ice very well - could there be a correlation there?

A bit off-topic, but, in retrospect, it is pretty remarkable that cutting only 2 or 3 mm, or so, with a moving skate blade, into the ice, creates sufficient sideways forces to hold one securely and effortlessly upright as we skate. It makes sense in a "displacement hull boat" (like fast sea and slalom kayaks, or most naval ships), that pushes up waves to each side as it moves forward. Each side of the boat pushes against, and is pushed against, the water. If one side lifts out of the water, it no longer has much push, and the opposite side force pushes the boat back upright. (There are also "planing hull boats", like speed boats and many whitewater playboats that mostly push water downwards instead. They handle quite differently.) But why is only 2 or 3 mm or so of ice enough to stabilize a skater? It is stiffer, but maybe part of what the stiffness of the ice does is simply to slow down tilting motions, giving the skater time to compensate...

[TDL]

I practice daily when I brush my teeth, move to the other foot after I have lost my balance.  Probably I average about 30 seconds or so, am better on the left foot.  Have gotten better over time.

[Query]

I guess this is essentially be part of "dancing in the dark".

I practice daily when I brush my teeth, move to the other foot after I have lost my balance.  Probably I average about 30 seconds or so, am better on the left foot.  Have gotten better over time.

The "Have gotten better over time" means that practice helps. Good!

BTW, I've never had a stroke or heart attack, to the best of my knowledge. So that isn't an excuse. I'm just a klutz.

I hoped that skating would improve my sense of balance fairly good. But apparently this is a sufficiently different skill that it doesn't transfer.

(I'm not suggesting that those of you who coach have your students try. That might create injuries, and tricks spread faster than germs.)

[masterblaster]

The other thing I remembered, was that 4 years ago, I got an inner ear virus, and developed vertigo. Full out attacks, that got closer and closer together. I had it for 2 months, it was easily the most miserable I've ever been. Fortunately the ENT was right that it was just a virus and it would go away on it's own. I wonder if that hurt my balance too.

Wow, yeah, an inner ear virus and vertigo does sound like it could do some damage to your balance. Did you do any sort of physical therapy for that?

My dad is having some issues with vertigo right now and he's been doing some PT for balance (I didn't even know that was a thing before) that has apparently been helpful.

[alejeather]

I did the STARS combine a few years ago and balancing on one foot with eyes open and closed was one of the skills evaluated. I've always thought this was something I was pretty good at, so I was surprised that it ended up being one of my weakest marks of the combine, and I commented on it to the evaluator. He said the good news is that balance is an easy thing to improve, just by doing those exercises, of standing on one foot with eyes open and with eyes closed. I did not take him up on this specifically, so I cannot confirm his advice, even from personal experience.

Whether it's useful to be able to balance with one's eyes closed, I'll add this - in learning spins like the cannonball sit spin variation (where you look down at the ice) or the layback (looking up at the ceiling), I was initially very unstable checking out of the spins. My coach told me not to use my eyes to balance on the checkout, but instead to use my core. This has helped me tremendously to safely check out from spins that make me dizziest. I didn't even realize I had been using my eyes, but it's just something we naturally do to balance!

[Query]

I did the STARS combine a few years ago and balancing on one foot with eyes open and closed was one of the skills evaluated.

I wasn't familiar with the Stars Combine. Let's see:

  https://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=83958

e.g.,

  https://www.usfigureskating.org/content/STARS%20Information%20for%20Prospective%20Trainers.pdf
  https://www.usfigureskating.org/Content/Understanding%20Your%20STARS%20Score.pdf

What are the 15 assessments?

Hexagon Jump, T-Test, Vertical Jump, Alternating Foot Bounds, Timed Tuck Jumps, Push-ups, Bent-knee V-ups, Side Plank, Hand Press, Front Split, Straddle Split, Standing Spiral, Seated Reach, and Stork Stand with eyes open and closed.

What are the 7 anthropometry measurements?

Body Weight, Height, Height of Greater Trochanter, Height of Lateral Malleolus, Thigh Circumference, Hip Width, Shoulder Width.

It is interesting that they attach so much importance to personal anatomy, including some things that the skater has relatively little or almost no control over.

Of course understand that these things do affect and ultimately limit how good a skater can eventually become. But there also needs to be a place for kids who just want to learn to skate well for fun.

At the conclusion of the testing, each athlete keeps a copy of his/her raw scores and turns in the other copy to the site administrator...

Top athletes overall are recognized by U.S. Figure Skating online and in SKATING Magazine.

I guess the program is partly a a matching service, which helps would-be elite athletes, with the right body types, and the coaches that wish to specialize in training future elite athletes, to find each other.

But we can't all have the perfect body for figure skating, or any sport. I hope coaches don't push recreational skaters into this program, or to take this assessment. Even some low level competitive skaters don't need to be reminded that they can never hope to achieve the highest levels of the sport. Sometimes kids use sports for fun and/or to develop athletic skills and capabilities, without needing to have their body types graded.

When I asked the question, I wasn't trying to say, "if you can't do this now, you can never learn to skate well", and I hope no one takes it that way. To me, it's just a fun thing to try.