2019 Nashville Adult Camp (SHARP 4 Sports) - Antioch, TN - 8/9-11/2019

[FigureSpins]

SHARP 4 Sports: Adult Camp
August 9-11, 2019

Ford Ice Center
Nashville, TN  (Really: Antioch)

Tracks: Low Free, High Free, Dance and Coaches

https://www.sharp4sports.com/adultcamp


Early Bird Registration (Before May 31)     $399
Registration (June 1 - July 14)     $450
Coach Registration     $99
Coach (3+ Participating Athletes)     FREE!

[FigureSpins]

Thinking about going to this camp since we have family/friends in the area that we want to visit soon.  Anyone else considering it?

[Bill_S]

This is within a day's drive for me, and sounds wonderful.  I'm thinking about it. It's much closer than Lake Placid, another option that I've considered.

Group 1 is where I mostly belong, but for even that, I feel a little unprepared.

However, I really need to get to one of these workshops before my skills completely deteriorate.

[FigureSpins]

You could do the Dance track.

[Bill_S]

That'd be a good way to be hated by everyone else there. I truly have the hardest time remembering pattern steps, plus I have never skated with a partner. Flesh wounds would ensue.

[FigureSpins]

Typically, Dance seminars aren't about partnering or patterns, they're about creative movement, technique and flow.  Every adult seminar has some "interpretive" work, which is a lot of fun.  (Maybe we should have a SkatingForums Interp. challenge!)  Paula Trujillo will be on camp staff.  She's a wonderful choreographer and dancer.  She's the person who challenged Jimmy Santee to do a creative (off-ice) dance number that raised hundreds of dollars for the PSA Foundation. 

At adult events, it's okay to step to the side and just watch if it gets too tough.  I do it at the PSA Conference sometimes when the ice gets too crowded.  A herd of 150-200 former elite skaters showing off that they "still got it" as they do footwork and TOI drills end-to-end terrifies me.

Send the organizers an email to ask about which track would be appropriate for your level.

[Bill_S]

Just to follow up, I was still strongly considering this event, but a wedding has been scheduled for that weekend. I'll be in a suite and tie and wishing GREATLY that I was skating instead.

[FigureSpins]

I'm registered.  Guess this means I should probably start skating, lol.

[Bill_S]

I'm SO jealous!

We expect a full report when you return. 

[Isk8NYC]

I registered for the lowest-level track, just to be wimpy, lol.  Thought about registering as a coach, which is cheaper, but I wanna skate!  It's been too long!

They have a test session the day after the workshop, so I might knock out a test or two while I'm out of town.

[Arwen17]

I'll be there in Track 2, but my axel and doubles are still massively under-rotated. It's not too long of a drive from where I live so I decided I'd try it out. I've never been to a skating camp of any kind since I've only been skating for two years, so I wanted to try it just to see what it's like.
If nothing else, it will be great to have a bunch of adult skaters throwing around axel and doubles like they're candy. I'm the only active adult skater at my rink, so the only inspiration I get is from what the kids do.

[Meli]

I want to hear all about it! I was considering it, but everything was all out of whack, and I'm all out of shape, so I took a pass for this year.

[Bill_S]

Yeah, me too. Sigh.

Someday I'll actually make it to an adult camp or workshop. (Grumbles at stupid wedding planned for the same weekend. I hardly know the bride and don't know the groom.)

[Arwen17]

My honest (and honestly long) review of adult camp and I'm wondering if other adult camps are like this too. Please tell me if you've experienced the same at other adult camps.

**Note: When I say "talk therapy", I refer to the 1 to 2 hour long sessions spent on "welcoming speeches", "mental health", "conquering nerves", "goal setting", etc. Which are really nothing but a session to share your personal story and talk about your feelings. This holds no interest for me. I'm an adult. I know perfectly well how to set goals for myself. These sessions should be 100% optional for people who are interested in that sort of thing. I came to skate and learn, not talk about my feelings.

I hated Friday and Sunday. Saturday was decent.
Fri/Sun were mostly talk therapy sessions, and when we were on the ice, it was all 60 adults on the ice. AKA you didn't even have room for a postage stamp size of ice to yourself.
On Saturday, we were in smaller groups so it was much more pleasant experience on the ice. However, they combined levels 2 and 3 and some people who signed up for that level didn't belong there. They should have been in level 1. Level 3 didn't get the full benefit because they're stuck with level 2. And level 2 doesn't get the full benefit because we've got people who should really be in level 1.
You can imagine the chaos of trying to teach something relevant to the group when the skills gap is so wide.
In their feedback forum this morning, they did talk about possibly making smaller groups and labeling it by topic such as "toe loop". But I'm still very skeptical, because that still means a very large skill gap... from those learning toe loop for the first time to those working on double-double combos.

The main reason I wanted to try out an adult camp is because I'm not allowed to go to a kid camp. Kid camps are all limited to age 18 and younger. I'm almost 30.
But I think adult camps focus too much on "feel good" crap instead of actual technique. I'm there to learn. I'm there to skate and be challenged. I'm not there to "feel good" in talk therapy nonsense or watch lessons be dumbed-down for those who can barely skate. I have goals. I'm driven. There needs to be separate levels that are enforced and small groups only on the ice. Otherwise, somebody is getting the raw end of the deal, either the beginner or the more advanced person.

I think, for my personal goals, adult camp is a complete waste of time and money and I would have been happier simply paying for a private lesson and nothing else.

If you want camaraderie or "feel good" talk therapy, go to adult camps. If you want serious training, you're on your own. Kid camps do that, but adult camps don't. So stick with your private lessons.

I thought all of the staff was knowledgeable and pleasant. And if I lived in Nashville, I would be happy taking private lessons with them. I had no problem with any of the people involved. I have a problem with the entire nature of $400+ adult camps. That's a lot of money to pay for very little ice time and 60 people on the ice at once. Like I said before, a private lesson would be cheaper and you'd get far more out of it.

Would I go back?  Not likely. Unless they can show they're going to run a serious technique clinic that doesn't include talk therapy sessions and has people of similar abilities in the same class without overcrowding of the ice.

I'm extremely curious... would you say all adult camps in the country are like this???
Do all camps cater to just beginners (since most adult skaters are beginners)?? Are there any camps that seriously work on axel and doubles? Advanced spins and footwork etc? Or at that level, you're on your own, and you should just stick with private lessons?


=================
You can ignore this part if it doesn't interest you.
Even though they ask about dietary restrictions on the signup form, they will make absolutely no accommodations for you. So I have no idea why they even ask on the signup form at all since they don't care. So pay $400 and enjoy having to bring your own food because you're also not given enough time to leave and pickup lunch from a restaurant either. (We only had 30min max. You really need an hour to get to a nearby restaurant in lunchtime traffic, grab food, and make it back and have time to eat it.)
Skaters are, as a population, more likely to eat healthy. There were many vegetarians and vegans there (and other people who simply prefer not to eat junk food.)
The first day was sandwiches and salad. The salad was full of cheese (instead of on the side). The sandwiches were full of meat. **Remember they asked about dietary restrictions on the signup form. Why ask if you don't plan to do anything with that information?
Second day was taco bar. Meat and cheese only. No beans at all. Iceberg lettuce and tomatoes yet again were the only vegetables.
Last day was pizza, cheesy breadsticks, and iceberg lettuce with chopped tomatoes again. At least this time the salad was free of cheese.
Clearly, they are going for ultra-cheap, not healthy. They would be better off reducing the price of the camp slightly and giving us more time for lunch so we can go find our own food at a restaurant.
I repeat. There were multiple vegans, vegetarians, and others who saw this food as junk. It's not like it was just one person who couldn't eat this stuff.
How cheap it would be to order a big thing of rice and a big thing of beans. A big thing of bananas etc. Healthy doesn't mean expensive.
Nashville is full of vegan restaurants, showing it's a rather large hotspot for vegans. So it's just surprising such an area is still so out-of-touch of what food to buy to keep their vegetarians, vegans, etc happy.
On a related note, Skate Nashville was also sponsored by the American Dairy industry only a few months ago and had a ton of "Got Milk" products in the swag bag for skaters. So there's clearly two very different worlds living in that city and they don't seem to be aware of their own vegan subculture. This complete unawareness is in stark contrast from other cities I've been to that are also vegan hotspots.
I'm used to any type of dietary restriction being treated like (blocked) in 99% of places, but I had higher expectations because it's Nashville and I'm aware of the large vegan subculture in that city. This is not the reason I would not return to this skate camp. This dietary stuff was just the icing on the cake of dissatisfaction, ya know?
=================

Hopefully they learned something, since I know this is first year they've done the camp. Maybe in the future it will be better.

I don't want their camp to fail or anything. If beginner adults are able to go to it and have fun, great. If it gets more adults skating, that's great. But for adults who want a serious technique clinic, it's not worth it. At least not without some serious changes to the way they do their classes.
60 people on a single sheet of ice should be illegal. That's a public skating session. Not a class.

Maybe they need to create a track for those who "just wanna have fun" and those who have fun thru serious training. Skills and Technique Bootcamp, not talk therapy camp.
Some others there also mentioned maybe watching videos and talking about technique. That would be another good use of time at a camp I would want to go to.


For me, I think it was ultimately dishonest of them to post stuff like this on their website:

Group 1: This track will concentrate on those skaters building their foundation in the sport.  Beginning spins and jumps will be executed while learning the exercises and drills needed to begin to tackle an Axel.

Group 2: Is your Axel almost consistent or are you are starting to focus on developing your single jumps into doubles?  This is the track for you!   Sessions will focus on jump technique, bridging the gap between single and double rotations while giving you the confidence to increase your technical difficulty.

Group 3:  You're movin' and groovin'!  Challenge yourself with higher level doubles and taking your standard jumps to the next level with sequences, combinations, and technical challenges we'll throw your way!


And then suddenly combine ALL groups onto one sheet of ice for Fri/Sun, and really spend most of the time working on skills from level 1 because they don't want anyone to feel "left out" and because you've got people from lower levels self-assigning themselves to the higher levels, and you've combined level 2 and 3, when you really shouldn't.
With 60 people on the ice, there were a whole lot of near-miss Iron Lotus camel spins from the Level 2/3 people. Also, many in Level 1 don't know proper jump etiquette, aka staying out of the lutz corner, they can't recognize the entrance for spins/jumps and know how to move out of the way etc. It's very much like a public session, only worse, because each person has just enough skating knowledge to be more dangerous than the average public skater. It's an epic, chaotic Iron Lotus death trial when you put all levels on the same ice with so many people.

[AgnesNitt]

Arwen
Perhaps you would be happier at Lake Placid adult skate camp. You only have to sign up for the group classes you want, and they usually have 12 or fewer people in them,  and you can set up private lessons with coaches who would be delighted to have a skater of your skill level. Maybe you would find Paul Wylie suitable, though he charges the earth. (He does privates, although his group classes are huge). Note, he does good group classes.

There is no 'talk therapy'. There are off ice classes for balance, and yoga, strength etc.

There are 2 ice surfaces for adults (one for group skate, and one for freestyle), and you can skate on kid ice with a coach (that's the 3rd surface).

It's 7 days long so you have to plan. Although there is a 3 day version.

[Arwen17]

Arwen
Perhaps you would be happier at Lake Placid adult skate camp. You only have to sign up for the group classes you want, and they usually have 12 or fewer people in them,  and you can set up private lessons with coaches who would be delighted to have a skater of your skill level. Maybe you would find Paul Wylie suitable, though he charges the earth. (He does privates, although his group classes are huge). Note, he does good group classes.

There is no 'talk therapy'. There are off ice classes for balance, and yoga, strength etc.

There are 2 ice surfaces for adults (one for group skate, and one for freestyle), and you can skate on kid ice with a coach (that's the 3rd surface).

It's 7 days long so you have to plan. Although there is a 3 day version.

Thank you for the recommendation. It does sound better just class-size-wise alone. I tried out this camp in Nashville because it was the closest an adult camp has ever been to me. I could drive instead of fly.
I have started reading some reviews of Lake Placid and it does seem that people recommend private lessons for double jumps in general just because there's so few adults doing anything above singles. But spins, footwork, edges etc may have advanced enough group classes.

[Bill_S]

Maybe it's good that I traveled to a wedding instead of going to this camp. The skating camp was attractive to me because it was a reasonable 7-hour drive. I hoped that it would have been a great choice for the future.

Like you, I detest sitting and listening to motivational speeches when I could be practicing on the ice.

That's really too bad. From Agnes' description, it does sound like I should go to Lake Placid to experience a workshop done well.

Perhaps the Nashville organizers should do the same thing.

[icepixie]

Sorry to hear it was disappointing.  The descriptions of the levels actually made me think it was too high-level for me, since they mention Axel in Level 1.  (I didn't go for scheduling and price reasons, even though I'm local.)

My suspicion is that they couldn't wrest enough ice time from hockey to have a fully useful camp, hence cramming everyone together on the ice and the "talk therapy."  We really don't have enough ice for a city this size with a popular hockey team.  We're all looking forward to the third rink opening in a couple of months.

Although the talk thing seems to be Scott's schtick.  I've had a nice class and a few brief one-on-one interactions wth him when he's showed up randomly at freestyle sessions, but learned real quick to avoid anything club-related that was not on the ice.

[Arwen17]

Sorry to hear it was disappointing.  The descriptions of the levels actually made me think it was too high-level for me, since they mention Axel in Level 1.  (I didn't go for scheduling and price reasons, even though I'm local.)

My suspicion is that they couldn't wrest enough ice time from hockey to have a fully useful camp, hence cramming everyone together on the ice and the "talk therapy."  We really don't have enough ice for a city this size with a popular hockey team.  We're all looking forward to the third rink opening in a couple of months.

Although the talk thing seems to be Scott's schtick.  I've had a nice class and a few brief one-on-one interactions wth him when he's showed up randomly at freestyle sessions, but learned real quick to avoid anything club-related that was not on the ice.

I knew they were going to have skaters from "I just started skating today" to those working on their singles all in level 1 based on their Facebook posts. I just assumed they would break up into smaller subgroups to deal with it.

I too think they couldn't get enough ice time from hockey because even the one sheet we used, had hockey on it throughout the day. Basically the camp was being squeezed in around hockey. If they can't get more ice, then they should consolidate into a single day and charge a lot less etc. Even if they continue the three day  thing, they should charge less for the camp, if more ice isn't possible. People are usually willing to put up with a lot more if the price is lower. At least I'm near enough I could drive in. Some people flew in from the west coast or east coast.

The off ice jump sessions were alright, but once again overcrowded. They need to cap the numbers or get more rooms reserved and have more coaches.
But no talking stuff. The only people who need that are those who have no idea what they're doing in the sport or what it has to offer.

[AgnesNitt]

On my blog I posted the group classes. Arwen17 may find them uninteresting, but Paul Wylie is there all week.

[Meli]

Thanks for being the guinea pig! I would have lost my mind with that many people on the ice for this kind of thing. I already have iffy spin technique because I'm rushing to avoid getting plowed into by others. Sigh. I also don't get into the fluffy, touchy feely stuff. I'm not wasting a vacation day on "motivation".

[FigureSpins]

One thing to understand about this particular camp is that it is introducing a new curriculum with very little ice time.  Kori has developed her own approach to developing serious skaters - it's not Learn to Skate.  She mentioned that she has over 130 skills in the curriculum and that the Free Skating track is intended to have skaters master "7 before 7," meaning seven jumps before the skaters turn 7 years old.  The population is being expanded to include adult skaters in their "in between" track, which doesn't have the "7 before 7" approach.  FYI: this is not uncommon among elite coaches - most of them do advocate mastering all singles and some (if not all) doubles before skaters reach puberty and everything goes haywire due to body changes.  That's a radical undertaking to have every coach in a rink use the same techniques.  It's very rare because coaches typically have different backgrounds and education so most would be unwilling to change what's worked for them for years.  In this case, the Sharp4Sports program is being built from the ground up, so they can recruit coaches who agree to conform.  I really think a consistent technique is important to skaters in the developmental levels, so I "get it." 

I found value in some of the techniques because they're different from how I learned jumps and spins.  Learning new techniques and ideas is never a bad thing.  I wish I had gotten to work with two of the coaches - I didn't read the schedule properly.  I assumed Peter Sasmore and Paula Trujillo would work with each of the groups, but that wasn't the case.  The schedule listed sessions but not coaches, so next time I will ask in advance who is teaching what session and plan a little better.  My mistake completely, not the camp's.

Some techniques worked well for me, like the "elbow arrow" on jumps and the cross-jumps at the wall; some didn't work for me, like doing a RFO3 with an under hold to set up a spin windup.  I found that created a weak entry edge (for me) and complicated what isn't a particularly difficult element in the first place.  I can't think of a single skating student who would benefit from learning a spin entry that way.  I liked the stroking and edge class, but for the Group 1 skaters (singles/working on Axel) we needed a better agenda.  Once he started focusing on Moves patterns, the class was great; it was the cold start with bracket-bracket on one foot that frustrated a lot of skaters.

The on-ice sessions were too crowded, especially for spins.  Everyone tried to spread out, but there just wasn't enough room to really work on spins or jumps.  There were six to eight CW skaters in the group, which I thought was great!  It would have been nice for them to have a space set aside so that skaters weren't heading straight towards each other.  Getting 60 people off the ice at the end through a single doorway what like getting on a NYC subway at rush hour.  I took my guards on the ice with me and walked around from the hockey boxes to alleviate the "Congestion at Dekalb."  (Family phrase for any crowd movement.)

The biggest flaw in the schedule that I noticed was a severe lack of warmups.  When our club schedules a clinic, we always make sure there's an off-ice warmup followed by an on-ice warmup so that everyone is ready.  Each of the off-ice groups starts with a warmup and, if it's at the end of the day, a cool down/stretching.  With four groups, this gets tricky.  Since "all levels were welcome," proper warmups/cool downs should have been incorporated throughout the lower-group schedule.  Case in point: on Sunday, they had Group 1 scheduled to do Cardio before stretching, while Group 2 had the reverse.  I went up and down the stairs a few times to get my heartrate up, then did Group 2's schedule: I felt that I needed to stretch first on that day. 

The off-ice Agility class launched with a TWO MINUTE SQUAT HOLD.  Not "let's do some jogging, basic squats, some stretching."  I can do squat holds now, thanks to the fitness workouts I've been doing for the last few weeks, however, I have never done a squat hold for 2 minutes.  I managed it, but my knees locked around the 1:25 mark and then I couldn't stand back up, so down I went.  Thankfully, no real damage other than a sore foot.  What followed was lots of ladder drills, which is a major portion of any Agility class, but trying to do it without a warmup after sitting for 2 hours wasn't the best plan, in my opinion.  The drills were increasing complex, step-wise, and I didn't really see the point of them/that many.  It was a good cardio workout and my new $70 sports bras got quite the workout. 

The Agility class was followed by a stretching / gymnastics class.  He was very interesting: he told his life story while we did various stretches - it was a good distraction from the length of the stretch holds.  I liked that part of his session and I actually managed to do some partial-split stretches for the first time in many years.  When he switched to doing handstands and cartwheels, everyone with joint concerns stepped out of the room until it was over.  You have to know your limits and, after embarrassing myself by falling out of the squat hold, I wasn't interested in twisting a wrist. 

They had a great off-ice jumps class and a Hip-Hop choreography class that I really sucked at, but enjoyed very much!

I agree with Arwen about the talk sessions; I didn't need the touchy-feely emotional/motivational sessions.  However, there were a lot of skaters there who stated that they have confidence, focus and performance issues, so perhaps they needed those sessions.  I would have liked another alternative than to sit in an uncomfortable chair for several hours listening. 

I'm not a vegetarian, nor do I avoid dairy, so I thought the food was fine.  I've been watching my diet, but not eliminating anything, just portion control and upping the veggies.   I had salad (with cheese) and a turkey/cheese sandwich on whole wheat roll on Friday.  The spicy chicken on Saturday was delicious - not overcooked or dry, and it was seasoned perfectly.  (Sometimes, all you taste is the spices.  This was tender and tasty!)  I had some with lettuce and tomatoes (as a DIY salad) rather than flour tortillas, mainly because I didn't want to make a mess of my clothes trying to eat a soft taco.  The Sunday pizza didn't strike me as particularly healthy, but it was a half-day and my club does the same thing on the final half-day of our camps.  However, I agree with Arwen that the menu struck me as geared more towards youth skaters than health-conscious adults and it wasn't very accommodating for those with dietary concerns.  We were told to bring our own snacks and there were apples and water available, but I agree about bananas being a good option that should be available, especially for adults.  Bananas are magic and help with headaches, muscle aches, sugar problems, etc., etc. 

Just as an FYI from many years of organizing buffets: when you have to feed a lot of people quickly, put the table in the middle of a space and have them use both sides.  Have two salad stations with greens and separate fixings on both sides so two people can fix a salad at the same time.  If you don't have the space, then make two identical buffets so there are two lines or put the salad at a separate table and always keep the "fixings" separate for those who don't eat this or that.  Nuts, cheese and croutons belong at the very end with separate utensils.

Nashville is a great city - my concierge-husband and I had dinner Friday night at Mangia Nashville.  On Friday and Saturday nights, they offer a reservation-only, fixed-price ($50~ plus drinks) menu.  10 courses of delicious italian food with music and dancing. I was really tired after the camp, but I danced anyway.  We sat at a table for 10 and chatted with the other couples at our table - lots of interesting conversation!  We had a fantastic time and will definitely go back next time we're in the area.  During the week, they have a regular menu and other entertainment.  Nice place.

I was just at the camp to have some fun, learn new stuff and do something for my skating.  This camp hit all three of those goals, so I'm happy. 

[FigureSpins]

On my blog I posted the group classes. Arwen17 may find them uninteresting, but Paul Wylie is there all week.

Paul Wylie is always awesome to work with on, or off, the ice.  The other club in our area brought him in for a clinic this year.  We had him the prior two years and he was wonderful.

We're planning our 2020 clinics now - hoping to bring back Ben Agosto and Katherine Hill, who were incredible last time.  I'll share the details here when they're available.