Spinning on the spinner, help?

[Sierra]

Now, keep in mind, I didn't buy this spinner. My coach gave it to me. So, please, no comments on how the money's better put into ice time.

It's a circle shaped metal one. I've had it for a few weeks now and can do an okay backspin, but I just can't figure out how to do a scratch spin on the spinner. I can't figure out how to use the free leg. Any help on that?

General tips would be great as well. I have no instruction on this, but my coach wants me to practice on it everyday.
I have read a lot about how the spinner doesn't really help, but my backspins have improved a lot. I only do maybe five or six per session, due to having little time, but there is a notable improvement. Twice the number of revolutions, and faster and more balanced.

[FigureSpins]

My spinner is square and I inherited it from someone who didn't want it anymore.  I use it more with my students than I do myself.

I position my student's foot with the ball on the center of the plate, then have them hold the free toe behind on the ground.  I don't have him/her push with the free foot, they use the upper body to start the spin, then bring the free leg around from behind to the front to hold in an open position.  It's tricky, but they have to learn how to square their hips anyway, so it works.  Arms check to center in a rounded position to continue the spin.

Once they get 3-4 revolutions in the open position, I then work on the four positions of scratch spin, adding one position at a time.  They only get 1-2 revs/position, so it's really rushed, but it works okay.  The trickiest part is to check arms and legs at the same time.

So, please, no comments on how the money's better put into ice time.

But what you've described is exactly why a spinner is not a good purchase for skaters who don't know how to use it and aren't taking off-ice classes with someone who does.  This is a perfect example, even though it's not your money that was spent to buy the tool.

Doesn't your coach know how to use the spinner?  It's hers, right?  Seems a little zany to give it to a student without any instruction or guidance.  I only let my students work with it off-ice under my supervision and I spot them to be sure they don't fall hard.  Several have flown off the spinner when they lost their balance.  On a rubber floor, it's very easy to sprain an ankle or take a tumble since you stop abruptly.

Using a spinner only makes sense where there's no appropriate flooring, like the back of the ice rink that has rubber floors, or a carpeted party room.  Otherwise, the spinner is just an expense that can easily be eliminated by using socks and a smooth floor in an open area.

As for your improved backspins, sorry, but I can get the same results on my kitchen floor, lol.  I get twice as many revolutions on the spinner, but that's because I took an off-ice class on how to use the tool and I know how to control and balance on it properly. 


A few months ago, SillyAdultSkater posted this tip for using a spinner for turns.  I loved that tip and used it to master the FI3/crossover/mohawk/repeat end pattern for synchro.  http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=504.msg3966#msg3966

I also use it to teach the hip close snap for backspins.  Similar start with the free leg behind, turn to close the hip and pick up the free foot in front.  It's just as easy to do without a spinner, but not as much fun.

[Sierra]

It was actually donated, and my coach was parceling the donations out. She did show me how to use it when she initially gave it to me, and she regularly asks how it's going. What I mean is that I'm not doing any sort of off-ice class regularly. They used to have off ice classes, but they're run by a different coach & they haven't been run for awhile.
I want to keep my promise of diligently practicing on it since it was very generous to give it to somebody who hasn't been a serious, private-taking skater for very long.

I spun in socks all the time before I got the spinner. Never did anything.
I practice staying pulled in & jumping off and checking out (as opening up is a problem in some of my jumps), I've experimented with some jump takeoffs too, as the spinner makes it more unstable, needing greater control (similar to how a stability ball works on the core). I tried a method of double loop rotation- start with foot in front, use arms and knee action to pull up and rotate twice, jump off spinner & check out. It's a good warmup for the actual jump on the floor.
I can already do turns with my arms wherever, like SAS said, but that'd be a good exercise for future brackets and such.

Thanks for the upper body tips- I managed to get a few decent scratch spins, just need to work on the proper leg position (as it's still out to the side). I take video so I can look for positioning errors. I've been working on the four positions for the backspin, too, though it's really rushed.
Coach wants me to eventually be doing sits on the spinner.

[miraclegro]

I don't know if i've ever felt great doing a scratch spin on mine; i'm doing backspin on it and it took me a few YEARS to get comfy with that. 

They don't actually similate where the rocker is, but it does help you learn to pull in (if you don't knock out all your household furnture in the process - lol)

[FigureSpins]

A few notes from "Recreational Figure Skating" by Karen Bryden:

Here are a few exercises you can do on a spinner:

For Jump Landings: Stand on the spinner with landing leg, do NOT move the spinner, hold landing position to count of 5, keep in mind position, weight placement. KNEE OVER TOE.

Salchows: use the spinner for your 3 turn, jump off the spinner and rotate, land as you normally would in a jump.

Loops: get into a loop position on the spinner, give yourself some spin from the spinner, then jump off, rotate in the air and land.

SPINS: point of these exercises is not to increase your revolutions to 7 or even 10 times. It is to give you enough revolutions to help you understand the feeling of your weight placement, your body position.

One Foot Spin and Scratch Spin: Very important to have your hips square, start the spinner and maintain this position; you need to have the free leg placed to the side and slightly in front of the spinning foot. Push the spinner and feel the position of the hips and shoulders. This one is tricky on the spinner, getting that first push-off position is key to getting some revolutions.

Backspins: are the easiest of the spins to do. Again hips should be square, underneath the shoulders, feet directly parallel with one another (side by side). Pull into your position. This one is important
to have as many straight, comfortable revolutions as you can. It will teach you balance, keeping your back straight and your free leg crossed.

Source: http://stason.org/TULARC/sports/recreational-figure-skating/1-15-Are-spin-trainers-any-good.html

[sk8lady]

I have a circular spinner and it was never very useful for scratch spins. I used it primarily for backspins and back 3's. I was able to do a scratch and eventually a camel on it but the technique wasn't real similar to what made for good spins on the ice. It does help to be wearing hard shoes.

[Sierra]

I have a circular spinner and it was never very useful for scratch spins. I used it primarily for backspins and back 3's. I was able to do a scratch and eventually a camel on it but the technique wasn't real similar to what made for good spins on the ice. It does help to be wearing hard shoes.

Yea, think I've given up on working on the forward spins. I work on back scratches, back sits and back camels (yeah, now coach wants me to do camels). The backspins/sits on-ice are definitely improving, especially change sit. I also practice my forward sit entrance- practicing bringing the leg around straight.

[FigureSpins]

This is AWESOME - he knows how to use his spin trainer!  It's one of the "insole" type plastic models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FTdK1DpOb4

This skater travels quite a bit on the spinner - she must be rocking toe-to-heel as she revolves.
http://www.youtube.com/user/divan0#p/search/2/3bXAL-U72sw
I like the start she uses - the shoulders and upper body start the spin.  Really important on a spinner.

This one makes me dizzy because it's oriented sideways, lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0gesO3x9tA

This is typical first-timer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoRYQnt4xEY&NR=1
Nothing like using a spinner in a cramped space with hard furniture nearby.  (she goes random and puts dancing and shopping at the end of the video.)

If you bend forward, you'll spin badly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bvsajrRESU&feature=related


Square two-plate spinner:

Typical beginner on a spin trainer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44wSB-JVnmg&feature=related




This is a rare find: a CW Skater using the full-foot plastic spinner!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDzcFFm22vU&NR=1

[Purple Sparkly]

The one I have is like the square two-plate spinner with ball bearings.  Based on these videos, I think the cheaper molded plastic ones may actually be more realistic.  With those, if your balance is off, you travel just like on the ice and with the ball bearing spinners, you just fall off.

I don't practice with mine because most of my home is carpeted and the few spots that aren't aren't big enough to do it safely.

[hopskipjump]

A couple girls a the rink have the square ball bearing ones.  After using them for the past couple of weeks dd asked for one.  At the end of every school year I usually buy a summer "treat" - in the past it was a video game.  So I bought her the spinner.  I don't know if it helps in that she is better ON the ice, but after a day she was more upright (has a tendency to stick her butt out normally).  Who knows if it carries over to the ice?  For her, she has to make a conscience decision to move more slowly on the spinner and to pull in really tightly or she flies off of it.  Her coach isn't in to gimmicks so I'm sure she will raise an eyebrow.