[Mysteries of the Rink] What is this ?

[AgnesNitt]

A place to ask questions about stuff you see at the rink. Can be equipment, job titles, techniques.

I'll start:

What is this skating skill? It's a back cross roll with the crossing foot in FRONT of the skating foot.

[FigureSpins]

By cross-roll, do you mean the crossing foot comes down on an outside edge and rolls to an inside edge?  Did the skater do one, several with the same foot, or alternating-changing direction?

[RoaringSkates]

A place to ask questions about stuff you see at the rink. Can be equipment, job titles, techniques.

I'll start:

What is this skating skill? It's a back cross roll with the crossing foot in FRONT of the skating foot.

My coach has me do those. He says that those are the real crossrolls. The ones people call "cross rolls", where the foot crosses in the back of the skating foot, are cross cuts. No idea if that's actually true. :lol:

[AgnesNitt]

By cross-roll, do you mean the crossing foot comes down on an outside edge and rolls to an inside edge?  Did the skater do one, several with the same foot, or alternating-changing direction?

Comes down on the outside edge alternating side to side

[FigureSpins]

I can't even imagine this - got a video?

[Bill_S]

I've seen what Agnes is talking about. There's a Russian coach in Columbus that teaches that element. One of our young skaters who sometimes takes lessons from her will practice it.

Haven't heard anyone call it by name though.

[Doubletoe]

It's basically alternating back crossovers.  You do a right-over-left crossover, change edge, then do a left-over-right crossover, repeat.  I think these are called back cross rolls (not cross strokes or cross cuts, where the new foot steps down behind the skating foot instead of crossing over).

[CrossStroke]

It's basically alternating back crossovers.  You do a right-over-left crossover, change edge, then do a left-over-right crossover, repeat.

I don't think that's what AgnesNitt is talking about.
Ironically, in the last 2 or 3 weeks my coach had me do that move - back outside to back outside edges crossing in front.  He had me do them both in isolation and several combinations - for example, LBO choctaw, RFI choctaw, on LBO cross front to RBO, into RBO choctaw, LFI choctaw, on RBO cross front to LBO, rinse, repeat...  No idea if it has a name, though.

[icedancer]

I think there is a part of the Gold Dance called the Quickstep where you do this - cross in front while going backwards - it's not a roll though, just an edge (and very hard IMHO) -

[nicklaszlo]

This fits the definition of a cross step forward (XF) in the USFS rulebook.  However, it is only an example.

Agnes's step as best I can tell is

RBO XF-LBO XF-RBO ...

Quickstep steps 8 and 9 are

RBI XF-LBO

which is not the same.

I'll try Agnes's step next time I practice.

[AgnesNitt]

Confirming Nicklazlo's comment above, I got an email from a coach I know who said:

In ice dance terminology they are labeled as XF (cross front) and are found in the Viennese waltz ladies steps 5 & 6. The dance was actually created to the Blue Danube piece of music, and if you start the dance at beginning of the melody, the XF transition matches the music beautifully!!
The rock-over sensation before putting the new foot down is the fun of that step.

Cross-rolls (XR) with the new foot behind each time are found in the Argentine tango for the lady.

Video! https://youtu.be/14onAB6sAM8?t=39

So we finally have an answer and confirmation!!

[FigureSpins]

So, it's not a cross-roll - the crossing foot comes down on a BO edge and stays on that edge. I thought that foot changed edge, which is why I couldn't envision it at all.  Back Cross Fronts.  Got it.  (Great ISU video, btw.)

[nicklaszlo]

Viennese waltz lady's step 6 is an inside edge. 
3 RBO
4 CR LBO
5 XF RBIO
6 XF LBI

[AgnesNitt]

Viennese waltz lady's step 6 is an inside edge. 
3 RBO
4 CR LBO
5 XF RBIO
6 XF LBI

Looking at the video closer, I see you are correct.
So,  XF BO is a cross front something...so far unidentified

[dkd]

I do those for my edge warm ups. My coach was in John Curry's company, and my coach taught them during Curry class. I don't recall an exact name for them, but I think he just called them low cross in fronts.

[icedancer]

This fits the definition of a cross step forward (XF) in the USFS rulebook.  However, it is only an example.

Agnes's step as best I can tell is

RBO XF-LBO XF-RBO ...

Quickstep steps 8 and 9 are

RBI XF-LBO

which is not the same.

I'll try Agnes's step next time I practice.

You are right - but it is really hard - I used to be able to do it! 

[Shelley]

Sounds like the cross step in the junior moves Choctaw pattern. Like at 3:40 of this video: http://youtu.be/vDGp29iePCc

My coach has me do just the alternating crosses down the rink sometimes as a drill. Don't know if there's a name for them though.

[nicklaszlo]

Sounds like the cross step in the junior moves Choctaw pattern.

Good point.  I now realize I have done that one many times.

[AlbaNY]

If I am understanding what I read (I think so) this is the thing that my Eastern European (Romanian) coach always calls "step ahead backwards cross rolls."  I prefer the "step behind"a bit more lately although these have been fun to work on (I just miss enough of the curves still.)  I spend a lot of time on both these days. 
In another thread, with my video, I remember someone said it had another name to them, and I happened on this thread now and wanted to chime in.  In the practice thread I have been referring to these plenty not knowing people might have no idea what I was talking about.