How to keep my skater focused and motivated?

[Newicemom2016]

My daughter turned 8 in July.  She has been skating for only 4 months.  She is very busy, and hyper.  Focus is a huge issue for her with anything that she does.  She is very athletic, and usually does well in anything that she tries.  We have tried other sports, but she looses interest very quickly, and wants to stop going.  She asked to try skating and she has loved it from day one.  She is on her 2nd cycle of group lessons, and she is at basic skill level 5.  There are a lot of really advanced skaters where we go.  She sees them and she gets discouraged because they are so much better.  She went as far as getting mad at me because I did not bring her in sooner, and that I brought her too old, and she will never be as good. lol OK!    But the truth is, that with her focus issues, she probably was not ready for it.  In the next class cycle, they are focusing more on technique, edges, etc She tried one and hated it, because it was not as much play time.  All she wants to do is spins, and jumps.  But I think you can't learn these things well if you do not master the basics.  She works with a coach 1 time a week, followed by practice time, and 2 group lessons, also followed by practice time.  Is she progressing at a decent time frame?  I do not want her to loose interest because it gets harder, or it's taking too long.  Who does not like to win!? but I think she is immature for her age, and really gets upset when she looses at anything.  We are doing our best to help her work on this huge issue.   When do they start going to competitions?  I do not want her to go too soon, and not want to continue because she got last place or something.  Any thoughts and comments are greatly appreciated it, as I do not know much about this, and I am learning as I go.  I just do not want this to be another thing that she tried and no longer wants to be involved in, due to nonsense reasons. 

[mamabear]

Well, the short answer in my mind is that you can't.   If your skater really isn't focused and isn't willing to work on anything but spins/jumps then you can't make that happen and not have some fall-out.  This has been an interesting dynamic of skating to me.  I don't have much team sport background but my understanding is that there are designated practice times when everyone on the team must be there.  And the time in that session is governed/controlled by the coaches.  The athlete controls their effort but the coach usually controls what is being practiced/etc.  In my limited experience, skating isn't like that.  I think you could put yourself in that role where you say that she must practice x amount of times a week and practice x things but I don't think you can do that and have her be super happy and willing to do it all the time.  Or you could leave it up to her and then she might not progress as fast as she would like or practice as much as you like. 

[Neverdull44]

Her getting frustrated because she 'isn't good enough' is a good sign.    It means she wants to be better, to do what the big kids are doing.    And, that means jumps & spins & footwork.   Skaters are usually OCD.    Skating takes time and patience.   This isn't the easy gratification world.   It is going to teach her patience.

When I was a young skater, we had figures.  Talk bout boring for a kid!   An hour, hushed rink, going in figure 8s and slow speeds.   But, we all had to do it.   During freeskate, I found a friend or two, and we'd practice together.  Taking turns, and judging/coaching each other.    Kids are social and it helped to have a friend out there to do it.

Maybe get with her coach and develop a practice list for between group lessons.  Complete with a warm up, and explaining to her why we warm up our muscles.   Stroking, forwards, backwards, X# three turns, X# mohawks . . . .  and then the jumps and spins    Is there a small show/competition at your rink?  They are very cheap to enter, the skating director/coach may have an outfit to fit her, a simple dress will do, or eBay.    Ask the coach and get her a little routine together to work on.  The coach will probably include those basic skating skills in the routine along with the fun stuff.  Have the coach talk to her about why the basic turns are important.  They are usually jump entrances to the bigger jumps!    When you watch ice shows or tv skating, note where there are moves she doesn't like to do.   If you notice, the skaters can't do alot of cross overs in their routines, they are moving around the ice doing three turns, mohawks, choctaws, counters, rockers, swizzles, loops, . . .and then a jump or a spin.    There are all sorts of skating skills she will master. 

Finally, about 'not being good enough'.  Some kids are more self-critical.  It can be devastating in this sport.  Her growing over this psychologically, is going to teach her sportsmanship that she will use in her life.   You can't control other skaters.  You can barely control yourself when you're on thin blades and slippery ice.  If you don't like how you are doing, practice.  After each practice, there is something I did 'good' and something 'not so good.'   Acknowledge both. And, a bad day on the ice means that a super good day is coming.  When someone compliments her, tell her to put it in her 'good box' and when she has a bad day, to take out that complement.   Finally, my coach when I was a kid told me this and it's true to this day, "You will never be the best skater on the ice, nor the worst.  So, get over it.  They are NOT looking at you.  They are busy with their own skating.   So, get busy with your skating."

[Newicemom2016]

Thank you both of you for your input.  It is very helpful.  She is willing to work hard, and wants to.  I have never seen her focus on anything this much ever.  She has learning disability issues, and even needs separate time 1 on 1 at school, to process, learn, and retain new information.  Every night she asks me to put a figure skating video on for her to watch.  Her question is always how long you think until i can do "that"? So now, after what you guys said, I am trying to word things differently, instead of saying it takes time, or they are professionals, or have been skating for a while etc I tell her it is up to you how long it will take, and I tell her that she has to listen to her coach, and practice what he says, and once you master these items you move on to the next items.  The harder you work, and follow the practice plan, the quicker, you will learn, and move on to more difficult elements.  She said ok!  And she had a really good day yesterday.  She had a private, then with a written list taped to her arm, she did all the items on it, and then, she did a 1.5 hour group class (alpha-delta) where they only focus on edges.  Last time she cried and hated the class, said it was boring, it was to say the least embarrassing.  I am not expecting too much, but maybe she is getting it.  She had fun in the class, she did occasionally span around while the teacher was explaining, but there is nothing I can do, she is very busy and can't stand still.  Hopefully she will calm dawn with time.  Maybe its just so new to her that she gets over excited.  I am just happy she is into something, and wants to continue to go.  I am excited to see how she will be doing in a year!  Keeping my fingers crossed!:)

[Query]

From the standpoint of a group instructor, a student who won't pay attention to what is currently being studied, is very difficult to deal with. My figure skating director recently made it clear to me that I should spend less time on the problem students, on more time on the majority of the class.  Good group lesson instructors have to teach to the norm. So I now sometimes tell a problem student that whether or not they pay attention is their business. I won't force them to pay attention - but I also won't provide a lot of extra help if they don't, and they probably won't pass - and even if they are allowed to pass, they probably won't be able to go beyond the third set of lessons. Some group lesson instructors deal with this sort of thing better than others - they understand how to sound a little stern, and bring the problem students into attention. And, so I am told, I must learn to give up on some students. Realistically, in voluntary sports activities, most students drop out, by choice, temperament or necessity, before advancing very far.

In figure skating, you need to learn the foundations very thouroughly, before you can advance much further. A lot of the skills are progressive. The better she gets now at weight, balance, edging, posture, etc., as well as learning how to learn, strengthening the right muscles, and using muscles in the most efficient ways, the better she will be able to master more advanced skills. If she doesn't learn those things now, she will reach a plateau soon, beyond which she will be unable to advance, and will need to start over and relearn the basic skills right. Maybe that should be explained. Though there really isn't much time to explain abstract issues in the context of a group lesson.

Of course, a private coach might be a better fit. If she is to get good, it will eventually be essential anyway. (I hope that you have accepted that beyond the basics, figure skating is a very expensive sport.)

(BTW, a "learning disabled" tag is often really a clue that the teacher is teaching-disabled. As a sometimes private math tutor, I have found that, within reasonable limits, nominally learning disabled students can be taught a great deal, if you analyze and pay careful attention to what the underlying problems are. But of course, private lessons make that a lot easier.)

[Neverdull44]

I have a child who was labeled with a learning disability.    When she was 8, it was apparent.  A good number of these kids 'grow out' of it.   Now, she's in high school, does all of her own work, she stresses herself over grades, hands in all assignments without me nagging her, and isn't a worry.   She's 'fallen on her butt' enough to know how to pick herself up again.  Sometimes, 'gifted' kids don't have the resilience skill.    Having a sport is good for kids with learning disabilities.  There are times when class is a real downer.  And, the new way of math (alot of word problems) . . .I would have had to home school her now (I have a 4th grader also, who can handle it).   If she has a learning plan at school, and if your state has a scholarship that gives scholarships for private school for kids with these plans, please, please, please look into that option.  I wish I would have done it sooner for my daughter.  Private school, smaller classes, and focus on only the SAT (instead of those Common Core) has greatly helped her.

That being said, my older one was in dance during the elementary school years.  Dance was/is harder for ADHD kids, than swimming.   Because, the ballet class 'switches' up the dance steps at barre constantly.   She would get very confused and frustrated, even blowing the choreography at performance which was ultra embarrassing because it as a group of dancers.   It wasn't until I took a ballet class, that I felt her pain.   The good thing about skating, is that once she learns a routine, she will have that routine for a year.   And, she will be the only one on the ice and the judges/audience don't know her planned performance.  So, you can 'make it up' to some extent if you forget.   So, the choreography is NOT as confusing as dance.  But, skating isn't as methodical as, say swimming, which I read was the perfect sport for ADHD kids.   The perfect sport is the one that they like.

If she is showing up to class, practicing, and has a list, I'm sure her LTS coach is going to love her.   There are kids who 'hog' the teacher because they love skating so much, that they want to really do it.  There are other kids that don't like it, the smell of the rink, falling hurts alot, and are there because their parents think it's a cool sport.   It's a hard sport, and if one isn't 'in love' with the sport . . . they might as well not waste their money.     It sounds like she likes it.  Keep it fun at her age.  She is going to learn alot about life.   Practicing, hard work, persistence, never giving up, self-reliance, and self-acceptance.   it's a solo sport and you can't 'blame' anyone else after a bad performance, everything starts and stops with the skater. 

The competitions are usually called, "Basic Skills."  Ask the coach about getting her a little routine for her to practice all of her basic skills.   All of us have skills that are easy and ones that are not.  We have to practice our weaknesses twice as hard as what comes easy to be a balanced skater.   Coaches tend to put about 10% in the program that is difficult for a skater to do.   Doing programs makes skaters much, much, much better.  And, it sounds like she has 'emotion' to put into her skating.  Better to have a skater that emotes, than a cardboard jumping wonder.

[Query]

This is off-topic, but, speaking of changing choreography, I recently watched a coach audition people to join a synchro team.

As a coach, she seemed awful. She gave poor, abbreviated explanations of the skills to be performed, and did awful and partial demos.

Then I thought about it. The hardest part when I tried Synchro was that they changed routines every week, sometimes several times in a practice session, and sometimes changed routines the day of competitions. Picking up the choreography fast is very important in that environment.

I talked about it with two other coaches, both with choreographic backgrounds, who said that deliberately making it hard to pick up on the choreography was a great way to test the kids for the skills they would actually need in Synchro. One of them, with a formal dance background, including ballet, told me that almost none of her dance classes had full demos. It's just expected that Dance students pick up on choreography instantly, no matter how it is taught. She also told me that Synchro NEEDS to change every time, because not everyone shows up.

So, synchro might not be optimal for some "learning disabled" students, for the same reasons that Neverdull44 says that ballet isn't - those constant changes.

Fortunately, the skills covered in the Learn-To-Skate classes I know about are fixed. But she still needs to pay attentention, and learn the fundamentals.

BTW, Neverdull44, "common core" may eventually be phased out, as "No Child Left Behind" has mostly been. Unfortunately, other new and disimproved teaching techniques and rmaterials will replace it, because that profits the people who develop them. I argue this point at

  http://mgrunes.com/tutoring/WhyTutor.html

I admit that's a self-serving ad for a private tutoring service, but I believe what it says.

[nicklaszlo]

How to keep my skater focused and motivated?

You don't.  This is figure skating.  It's not serious business.  If your skater wants to be an elite competitor, her coach should should take care of this.  Parents should be parents and not try to be coaches.  Otherwise, relax.

When do they start going to competitions?

You do not need to do competitions.  They are an optional (and small) part of the sport.  Figure skaters spend nearly all their time on practice.  Sometimes they do tests, ice shows, or competitions.  The decision to start competing should be based on the skater's goals and the coach's knowledge of the competitions available.

[Newicemom2016]

"From the standpoint of a group instructor, a student who won't pay attention to what is currently being studied, is very difficult to deal with. My figure skating director recently made it clear to me that I should spend less time on the problem students, on more time on the majority of the class"

[Newicemom2016]

I have noticed this already, before you said it!  Honestly, it does not bother me that much, because it is what it is!  And that's why 2 months ago when I noticed she really enjoyed skating, and wanted to learn, I hired a coach to work with her 1 on 1.  It's not that she is not able to learn things, she learns it quickly, but if you keep repeating same thing, she looses interest, and wants to do the next thing.  The instructors try to keep her in front and do their best to keep her under control, but she flies away, comes back a couple of times, eventually they just let her do whatever! Like I said before, she is very busy, and crazy, but she is extremely athletic, and tough.  The group lessons to me is for her to make friends and have fun.  Coming from your side of things,  I totally sympathize, with how challenging it can be.  I do feel bad for the teachers and some of the students and parents.  At such a beginner level, some of these kids as you know only have that one day a week to learn and skate, the last thing they need, is my crazy daughter talking to them, and causing distractions when they are trying to learn.  At the same time she will always be antisocial and awkward if i do not expose her to other kids.  It's a double edged sword.  Like others mentioned above, figure skating is more of a solo sport, maybe that is why, she is so into it.  I do not know, curious to see how long this will last, and where it will go.  If anyone that has more experiences with a busy child like mine, feel free to share your experiences.  Thank you!

[ARoo]

It's not that she is not able to learn things, she learns it quickly, but if you keep repeating same thing, she looses interest, and wants to do the next thing.

Figure skating is a sport where you need to be able to really focus inward. There are lessons and coaching, but it's never fully directed like most other sports. There will always be much more time where you need to direct yourself. It's a sport with lots and lots and lots and lots and (did I mention) lots of repetition.

After 6 or so months in LTS you generally see kids go one of two ways. Either they have the passion and love for the sport that makes them want to practice, practice, practice... or they are starting to get burned out on the repetition (and doing stuff over and over and over) and the repetition and doing things over and over and over. Skating is hard... really hard. It takes tons of time to get even the most unimpressive elements. Not every kid is willing or able to handle that.

You can't make a kid have that level of focus or drive. You can drive them to the rink but they will choose what they do out there. If you had said your daughter was 5-6, I'd be leaning more toward the "go play and have fun" aspect, but at 8, she's probably ready to understand the requirements and decide whether she's interested in actually doing what the sport requires or if just playing at public skate would be more her speed. If she's not able to focus at this level, though, chances are you won't be able to force her to focus when even more time and commitment are required.

She's old enough to understand that figure skating requires a strong foundation. Rushing into learning higher level moves will only result in terrible technique. Developing strong technique in the beginning will be the key to advancing. If she isn't interested in listening to coaches, repeating things hundreds of times, and spending hundreds of hours perfecting the most nitpicky patterns, it's not really something you can do for her.

[Query]

At a serious level, I don't know of any sport that doesn't involve lots and lots of repetition. It's very common for serious athletes in any sport to develop a set disciplined practice routine that practices each major skill in turn.

Maybe, with her private coach, your DD is so much more advanced than the other kids, that the group lesson instruction seems to basic to her. You see the same thing with hockey kids who are forced to take LTS lessons with absolute beginners.

Parents have a big role in motivating kids. Could you discuss the group lesson issue with her private coach? Your daughter can learn to use the group lesson as supervised practice time. She can learn to do the repetitions needed to maintain and refine her skills during group lessons, without worrying too much about re-learning the basics. Though whether a teacher can deal with that depends a lot on the teacher. Some group lesson teachers are better than others at dealing with a spread in skill levels. She may also be able to help other students who are having problems (something the LearnToSkateUSA literature advocattes) - again some teachers can deal with that, some can't.