Privates (with more than one coach?)

[Newskatemom]

Hi Everyone, my 9 yr daughter started Pre-Alpha group lessons in September and occasionally takes privates (1/2 hr) about x 2 per month. 

Her private coach - works very well with her and I couldn't be happier with her.  My daughter makes a lot of progress with each private lesson. And, she feels happy and inspired after each private. 

And, I was told that she has her Pre-Alpha and Alpha skills...and can take Beta (so I signed her up for Beta group lessons).

However - so far - for next year - I've only been able to schedule one private for January and one private for February.  So, unless her private coach gets a cancellation, that's only one private per month. 

I would love for my daughter to get at least 2 to 3 privates per month because I feel she learns the most through privates.  And, she is very motivated and *really* wants to learn more skills.

I don't know how things work in the skating world.  But, was wondering if her private coach would mind me asking her - if she could recommend another coach for my daughter.  To have privates with another coach - when there's going to be a big gap between privates (with her main private coach).  I hope that makes sense. 

Any advice you have would be great!  Thanks!

[davincisop]

There are many skaters who take from more than one coach, but you just want to clear it with your main coach first.

That said, your daughter is in pre-alpha. Privates really aren't necessary until later on unless you're just using it as extra practice of sorts for her....

[Newskatemom]

Hi - Thanks for your reply. Just to clarify, my daughter's actually in Beta - now. She took pre-alpha but got her pre-alpha and alpha skills.  So - I signed her up for Beta (per her group coach's recommendations).

I feel she made a lot of progress because she had some privates. And, would love if she could continue to have more regular privates. But it's hard to get these scheduled. 

I want to *keep* the private coach she's got.  But ask if she could take more privates with another coach - so my daughter can get at least a couple of regular privates per month.

[amy1984]

Ask your coach.  Let her know you're looking for more lessons.  She might have a recommendation of someone she works well with.  Lots of skaters use 2 or more coaches but I personally have found that it's worked best if I let my main coach make suggestions.

[tstop4me]

Not sure how this would work out.  I can see an assistant coach working with a senior coach for high-level competitions (e.g., John Nicks is 86 and coaches Ashley Wagner with the help of an assistant coach; in particular, John Nicks doesn't travel with her to competitions).  And I know some skaters at my rink who have one coach for freestyle and a different coach for dance.  Different coaches for different skills.  OK. 

But if you have more than one coach working on the same set of skills, there can be the problem of inconsistency.  There is usually more than one method to teach a skill, and each coach has her pet techniques.  So if Coach 1 teaches particular arm and leg positions, for example, and Coach 2 teaches different arm and leg positions, you'll end up with one very confused student.  There's also the question of continuity.  For example, when my coach introduces me to a new skill (e.g., consecutive back outside edges), she'll first show me the proper way of doing it.  I'll try it, and if I make good progress, I'll continue as such.  But if I try it, and continue to flop, she'll have me back off (e.g., change my arm and leg positions from the proper ones) until I acquire better balance and confidence, and then have me do it the proper way.  Similarly, if I'm doing a sequence (e.g., a waltz eight), and she notices particular weaknesses (e.g., my RFO 3-turn), she'll have me do remedial exercises before continuing.  But if you flip-flop between independent coaches, there's no way to keep track of what's going on.

If it's a choice between Coach 1 ("best" coach, but not readily available) and Coach 2 (maybe not quite as good as Coach 2, but competent and readily available), I would simply go with Coach 2; a sporadic mix of Coach 1 and Coach 2 (contingent on the availability of Coach 1) might actually slow progress.

[fsk8r]

I wouldn't panic about working out another coach just yet. Your daughter is still very new to the sport and having just the one private a month on top of her group lessons will help her progress. Perhaps you could just take your daughter skating another time in the week if you can't pick up a cancellation.
At my rink we wouldn't normally be recommending privates until they've progressed further but the coaches would be recommending another practice session in the week. Hopefully being 9 she is able to remember what she's taught in her group lesson (maybe suggest to write things down when she gets home) and then she can go practice these herself when you take her down.
Learning to practice on her own is a key skill to learn if she's going to progress with her skating.

[amy1984]

But if you have more than one coach working on the same set of skills, there can be the problem of inconsistency. 

If you go with two coaches who work well together - I had my main coach choose #2 - then this shouldn't be an issue.  Both are constantly asking what I'm working on and what's working/not working.  The thing is that both coaches not only need to know about each other, but work well together.  Yah, there are different techniques, but as long as they're not working with you independently as if there's no one else involved, tbh, there's no issue.  Most kids at my rink have two coaches. Many of the coaches work as teams.  And even outside of that sort of 'team' environment, as long as what's going on is clear, you should be okay.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Not sure how this would work out.  I can see an assistant coach working with a senior coach for high-level competitions (e.g., John Nicks is 86 and coaches Ashley Wagner with the help of an assistant coach; in particular, John Nicks doesn't travel with her to competitions).  And I know some skaters at my rink who have one coach for freestyle and a different coach for dance.  Different coaches for different skills.  OK. 

Actually, this works out pretty regularly at many, many rinks.

Generally, if you work with more than one coach, you have one primary coach. They are like the head coach, and make many of the decisions like testing, programs, competition, etc. Then you have the secondary coaches, usually with the permission and knowledge of the primary coach, just so everyone knows what's going on.

At my rink, most of the coaches team coach in some way. So I have my primary, then I have a secondary that works with me when my primary is gone or needs to rearrange schedules. Mostly, sure, my secondary focuses on moves, but we also work on whatever I need to work or what my primary has asked us to work on. The. I have my dance coach. I have a second dance coach for partnering (when he's around) but we also work on my competition dances when those are coming up. We also have one pair of coaches that both do everything with their students, and it has never cause problems because they've been coaching together so long, and they talk between them about what is going on with skater x, y or z.

As long as a the coaches can work together, it really isn't an issue. Sometimes it is good to hear things in a different way, and I'm lucky that I can ask my coaches regarding any discrepancy in what is being said between them. Many times, even though it sounds really different, they are saying things the same way and I just didn't understand it.

To the OP - I would say the most important thing if you do decide is to talk to the coach your child is taking privates from now. That way they can recommend someone they are comfortable working with. At nine, if your daughter is asking for more private lessons, then it might be something to look into. But at her level, as has been said, simply more practice time may be even more beneficial.

[sampaguita]

Having several private coaches (2-5) is common in my rink. As long as there's no feud between the coaches, there should be no problem.

[Newskatemom]

Thanks Everyone for your replies! It's hard knowing what to do! I know I definitely want to *keep* the private coach that she has!

My daughter trys to practice at the rink but finds it hard because it's pretty crowded.

Yesterday, she was trying to work on her backward cross-overs but she found it really hard because she would quickly have to get out of the way of another skater!

She's working on T-stops and other things that she sees other kids doing...and sometimes wants to show me and asks *me* if she's doing it right.  But - I have to tell her that I don't know because only a coach would know...oh well!   

[fsk8r]

When I was at your daughters stage I used to skate on crowded publics. I used to find a corner away from people to practice in. I would still have to get out the way often, but I would get enough space to do a few back crossovers before having to stop for someone.
But messing around trying to do what the other kids doing is a great way for her to learn to become more comfortable on her skates. And you've got a great response in telling her that you don't know whether it's right or not.
I'm sure as she progresses you'll start to be able to see the difference in what she's doing and can pass comment on whether something looks "beautiful" but it's good to make sure she learns that for technical feedback the coach is best.

[Query]

I'm with the folk who say it is confusing, at a beginner level, which Beta more or less is, because different coaches have very different ways of moving.

For that reason, taking with her group lesson coach, if possible, might make sense.

If you don't do that, it makes sense to tell your daughter that the private lesson coach's techniques are more important than those of the group lesson coach, partly because group lesson coaches are rarely picky below mid-freestyle levels, and partly because they cost you more.

But also let her know that when it comes to passing tests with either coach, the same rules apply as in any class: the teacher of the class in question is always right. That's a useful thing to understand in any event, even if it sounds a little cynical for a little girl.

[Doubletoe]

It's very difficult for coaches to schedule less than one lesson a week with a student because there's usually a regular weekly student in each time slot.  Does her coach not have any 30-minute slots open that she could give to your daughter if she committed to taking that slot every week?

[Newskatemom]

Yes - I think she has regulars already...  And, lets me know when something opens up.

I'm (thinking) about asking her if it would be Ok for my daughter to get in an additional private (maybe just one per month) from her group coach - when there's a big gap between privates that she has with her (like if its a month between privates). So - she can get in a couple per month. 

She really doesn't learn that much from the group lessons. And, seems to learn a lot from each private...

[jlspink22]

My daughter takes 2 privates a week and she has almost all of her single jumps& required spins for pre-preliminary (USFS competitive track). Her coaches rule is min 1 hour of practice for every 30 min of instruction. I'm no expert but my daughter progressed quickly because she skates often. Playing around is still practice.  We go to group lessons 2x a week and public skate/open freestyle for practice since groups are more casual instruction. Generally you need to ask the main coach who she works with before seeking out a second coach out of respect. The skating world is very small and word travels fast about skaters and parents actions.

[twinskaters]

My daughter takes 2 privates a week and she has almost all of her single jumps& required spins for pre-preliminary (USFS competitive track). Her coaches rule is min 1 hour of practice for every 30 min of instruction. I'm no expert but my daughter progressed quickly because she skates often. Playing around is still practice.  We go to group lessons 2x a week and public skate/open freestyle for practice since groups are more casual instruction. Generally you need to ask the main coach who she works with before seeking out a second coach out of respect. The skating world is very small and word travels fast about skaters and parents actions.

True all around. On that last bit, I just was talking to another mom whose daughter is doing some work with an additional coach because her coach is swamped with other stuff. Everything was very above-board and both coaches knew the story and were fine with the plan. The very first time the skater and coach #2 were on the ice, people stared, and another coach went running to coach #1 to tell her about it next time she was in the rink. Insanity.

[FigureSpins]

The very first time the skater and coach #2 were on the ice, people stared, and another coach went running to coach #1 to tell her about it next time she was in the rink. Insanity.

Good thing all parties knew in advance. This will happen whenever a skater is seen with a different coach.  It's very hurtful to the original coach when s/he isn't aware of the other arrangement.

[twinskaters]

Good thing all parties knew in advance. This will happen whenever a skater is seen with a different coach.  It's very hurtful to the original coach when s/he isn't aware of the other arrangement.

Absolutely. The parent was annoyed at the lack of faith from the third coach (who coaches hockey skaters), and felt that coach was "stirring the pot." But I am sure the coach just felt she had a duty to say something. I guess it's a tough situation when basically all of the agreements are verbal and no one but the parties involved knows what's going on. It feels like you need to wear a sign: "My coach knows about this!" :-)

[DressmakingMomma]

My dd is moving to a husband/wife coaching team and we love this idea. I think you get something different from different coaches, and being able to equally work with two people on the same page is exciting. Now if only her next pair of skates would arrive!

We had a really negative experience with two coaches who were helping each other out. After awhile, my daughter wanted to switch to the extra coach because she liked her teaching style and it became a HUGE deal. We ended up having to switch rinks so I advise you to move very cautiously even if both coaches are in the know because this kind of thing can be tricky.

[tstop4me]

Wow!  Looks like there's enough material here for a reality show!  How about "Coaches on Ice, Coaches on Fire"?   

[Newskatemom]

Thanks Everyone - for all the advice and information! I didn't realize it could get like this!  I definitely do *not* want to cause any hurt feelings or stir the pot... I wish my daughter's coach had a clone - because she is really great! I haven't taken any steps yet - other than posting here...   She does like to practice during the public sessions.  She watches other kids who are more advanced and trys to learn from them.  So...I think I'll stick with just having a couple privates per month with the private coach that she has...