Dance boot for wide feet -Jackson vs Reidell, or Edea?

[HeiLo]

Hi, everyone,

I am currently doing Ice dancing exclusively. I am now at Bronze/pre silver pattern dances; and free dances with elements such as twizzles and simple dance spins. I have a dance partner.

I have been skating on Jackson Freestyle DJ 2910 , Size 6C with Aspire freesyle blades. It fits me quite comfortably. I am currently thinking of changing into dance boots and dance blades, and I need to be sure of my options. I do have a pair of wide feet, in fact pretty wide for a petite Asian, probably due to low arch (pronator). Jackson width C is just nice for me, and I have minimal issue with it thus far (after 2.3 years skating in it). 

I live in Singapore; hence, unless I depend on online purchasing, my shop front choices for fitting are limited - pretty much the 3 brands I have mentioned above. I am seriously considering Reidell dance boots, but am very concerned of the width suitability.

I have a few questions:
1. Is Reidell width C similar to Jackson width C? or it is slightly narrower?
2. Any recommendation for dace boot (any brand recommendation is welcome) for my skill level?
3. What types of dance blades would you recommend I go for?

Thanks in advance!

[Query]

I can't give you an answer, but stock Reidell boots and stock Jackson boots are pretty different in shape. But all the major brands can be ordered in a variety of widths, maybe separate sizes at heel, toes, and mid-foot, and the two feet can be different too.

Perhaps you could call Jackson, and ask whether Dance and Freestyle boots fit differently. I don't think they do, but they would know better. If you want to save phone charges, their web page also has contact info, through which you can send a message, and get a response by email.

Of course, if you feel that Dance boots need a higher heel than freestyle boots, as some people do, that might affect your fit in complicated ways, which might require some boot modifications to adjust - as with many new boots.

If you are happy using Jackson Ultima Aspire blades, Ultima blades have a very different rocker shape up front from other brands. Jackson Ultima Dance blades will be closer in shape to your current blades than anything from MK or Wilson (like MK Dance, the most popular - and expensive - blades for the highest end skaters). But none of us can guess for sure, for you.

(I love MK Dance, though I'm not a high end skater, but for economic reasons, I am now using Ultima Dance.)

Incidentally, some people make a pilgrimage to the factory, even from distant lands. Or you might check Jackson's website, or contact them, to find out if a factory fitter will be in your area any time soon. I'm not sure about Singapore, but they often show up at competitions around here.

[icepixie]

I can't speak to dance boots, but I have wideish feet and hated my Reidell freestyle boots that I bought two years ago and ditched last fall.  They were an entry level boot (225s, maybe?) that only came in Narrow, Medium, and Wide, and I got the wide and it still wasn't enough.  I especially hated how much the toebox narrowed; I could actually have almost lived with the too-tight balls if the toebox had been better.  But I think most people's toes taper more than mine do.  They're short and stubby and most are the same length, like I basically have rectangles for feet.

The Riedells also were too wide in the heel, and I kept slipping up in them.  My heels would've been okay in a Medium, but then the front of my foot never would've gotten into the boot.  Do your heels slip out of street shoes like ballet flats?  If so, I bet you would have this problem as well and would need a split-width if you get Reidells.

I much prefer the Jackson Premieres I have now.  The 5B fits the balls of my feet well, and while I would like the toebox to be even wider, it's much, much better than my old boots.  And the heels fit great--very snug.  The Jacksons have a higher arch than the Reidells did, which may be an issue for you if you have flatter feet, though at least in my Premieres you can take the insole out.  (I've actually built up the arches even more with layers of cut-up foam insole, but my arches make even doctors do a double take, so I don't think I'm average in this regard.)

I feel like I'm whanging on Reidell...they work great for lots of people, but man, were they EVER not the right shape for my feet!

[PhysicsOnIce]

I know that this deviates from your original -Jackson vs Reidell, or Edea idea, but it might be an option to consider.

I am not sure where in Singapore you live, but Chow Skates offers Sp-Teri's, which have a wider last than most skates on the market. I also know that George (the owner of the company) makes rather frequent trips to Singapore to competitions and does fittings himself. You can check their website to see if he will be around anytime soon.

To be specific, the last of the Sp-Teris are fairly comparable with the Jacksons in term of width, but much wider than the Riedells. I know that I personally have fairly wide feet and have huge amounts of trouble fitting into a Riedells C the shape of the footbed is completely wrong for me, while my current Sp-teri's in C are actually too wide for me. Generally Sp-teris have a lower backthenk most skates, but they also do have a dance model with a slightly higher heel.

CHOW SKATES
58 OLD THOMPSON ROAD
SINGAPORE
65-9369-0834
CHOWSKATES@GMAIL.COM

[Loops]

If you're not in a hurry and have an option IN Singapore, as opposed to ordering something online, then I'd at least have a look.  PhysicsonIce has sage advice.

I know nothing of SPTeri's, but can comment on Riedells- they are relatively narrow and straight, so the last expects a forefoot about the same relative width as the heel.  If you look at Kinzies closet, there are some size charts on there for most of the brands, and instructions on how to have someone measure your feet (too difficult to do yourself- the width changes as you sit down and stand up...).  This should give you an idea, I would still send tracings or get measured by a professional.

I have talked directly with reps at Jackson and Riedell.  They are very responsive to the phone and email and willing to answer questions.  I'd encourage you to talk to them directly.  I'm in the same situation as you (so is PhysicsonIce, actually) where there are no or very very few skate shops, and near to no knowledgeable staff in them.  It makes the process of buying skates, which is already stressful, even more so.

If you already wear Jacksons and are happy with the fit, look at their Finesse (very soft boot) and Elite Dance (much stiffer) models.  We have a couple of dancers in our club in the Finesse.  If you're a big knee bender and very hard on your skates you might find them too soft though.  I tried on Jacksons and Edea dance boots last time I got skates.  I have funny feet,  very narrow heels relative to my forefeet, so neither worked for me, both in C width were very comfortable in the front, but too wide in the heel, the Edeas much moreso than the Jacksons.

But it sounds like you might be able to try some things on, so do that!!!!  Make sure your heel doesn't slip and that you have room in the balls of your feet (remember your feet will swell after skating for a while, so what feels all right in the store may not feel so all right after an hour on the ice....).

For blades, anything goes, really.  If you're in the aspire why not consider the Ultima Dance blade, or their Finesse (entry level dance/synchro).  My skate fitter in the US really likes the Ultima line- their quality control, he says, is top notch so there's very little risk of getting warped or otherwise misshapen blades (this can happen from MK/Wilson).  He's been in business a long time and is very well respected in the US skating community.  So I trust him. Another reason to stick with the Ultima line is the 8'rocker.  The only other dance blade with the 8' is one of the Wilson Dance models (Superdance? Check me on that!!!!!).  The others, Coronation Dance (Wilson) is a very good entry level dance blade, and MK Dance which is what the elite dancers use.  I'm on Vision Synchros, and they're just fine for dance.  But all of these have a 7' rocker, which will take some adjustment.  Not impossible for sure, but more than with the Ultimas.

Fwiw, I'm in dance boots now.  I love the low back and the toe point I can get out of them, but I wish they were higher on the sides.  I just don't feel comfortable in them, even after 2 seasons.  I'm pre-silver too, but I did a lot more freestyle growing up.  Just something to think about when you're trying them on.

[Query]

Fwiw, I'm in dance boots now.  I love the low back and the toe point I can get out of them, but I wish they were higher on the sides.  I just don't feel comfortable in them, even after 2 seasons.

I'm curious - are you doing more than Dance with them? A lot of ice dancers I know want boots to be just high enough and just stiff enough that they can control the blades, but don't want the boot to interfere in any way with the foot and ankle's range of motion - because deliberate pronation and supination give you deeper edges, and because extreme toe points and flexes look good in Dance.

What I am wearing now breaks all the rules. Though most of what I'm doing is ice dance plus mostly half rotation jumps, I'm using a pair of top level freestyle boots (designed for triple and quad jumps) that I got used, that are 1.5 to 2 sizes too large, and that are a brand which would otherwise be too narrow at the toes, and too low volume on top, for me. I cut and adjusted foam insoles, that go under and in some places around my feet, to make them tight where I need them to be, and support me where and to the extent that I require, and I wear thick fleece ski socks. This gives a very comfortable fit, that both adequately supports my extremely modest jumps, yet lets me pronate, supinate, point and flex for Dance. Of course, I mounted the blades to where they work well for my feet, not flush to the front of the outsole as would be appropriate to much longer feet than mine. I am super-happy in every way but one - the boots are heavier than what I need, partly because they are top level freestyle boots, partly because they are too big. But it shows that if you are willing to work at making boots fit a little oversize (1.5 - 2 sizes is more than was needed) may be better, and lets you adjust where you need to, and to pad it out where needed so it becomes totally comfortable and supportive. Unfortunately, learning to make those kinds of adjustment takes time, analysis, and practice, so I'm hesitant to push the idea to most people.

[DressmakingMomma]

My daughter has been skating in Edea Ice Flies for about 3 months. She has had Reidell (didn't work at all), Jackson Premieres (way to stiff, felt like concrete), and Harlick (even thought they were custom, heel slipped after a few months).

The ice fly seems to be working best of those boots. Her feet are wide in the ball (double e) and narrow in the ankle (a). Her heel stays firmly planted and we have been able to widen them out to fit her toes. The C width is the only width available in the states but if i had the opportunity to order a D or E, I think they would be just about perfect. The ice fly has a higher heel then her other boots (which took her some serious adjustment) and it is fairly low cut in the back for flexibility (lower then other Edea freestyle models). Even though they are rated for triples, you adjust stiffness by how tight you tie and so she gets lots of flexibility yet feels supported.

They haven't been perfect, but she also has a challenging foot. Her biggest frustration comes from heel and ball of foot pain and sometimes arch pain. We are constantly trying adjustments and some days they feel pretty good. I bought a boot stretcher from foot fitter online and have made adjustments with my hairdryer. The boots are super sensitive to how tightly they are tied; just a bit over-tight and she has serious pain everywhere. I want to try Edea shock undersoles next to see if that helps.

No skates have worked perfectly for dd, but I would say we've come the closest with the ice fly. Her coach loves them on her because of how she skates in them.

[Loops]

I'm curious - are you doing more than Dance with them? A lot of ice dancers I know want boots to be just high enough and just stiff enough that they can control the blades, but don't want the boot to interfere in any way with the foot and ankle's range of motion - because deliberate pronation and supination give you deeper edges, and because extreme toe points and flexes look good in Dance.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but the answer to your question may be relevent to the OP so here goes.

I do only dance right now, officially.  The head coach and I have played around with single jumps.  My blades were a bigger issue with those than the boot.  I always liked my boots stiff (was in the uber stiff Riedell Comps when perfecting 1A and learning 2S). One of my coaches here competed at Worlds in Dance ending about ~10 years ago, and has very stiff freestyle boots that she gets cut down in the back, so she has the support at the sides, but the toe point of the dance boot.  Then the skate fitter you and I use told me last summer that Jason Brown is doing all those triples in Dance boots.  I really think its a matter of personal preference. 

[icedancer]

The only other dance blade with the 8' is one of the Wilson Dance models (Superdance? Check me on that!!!!!). 

Fwiw, I'm in dance boots now.  I love the low back and the toe point I can get out of them, but I wish they were higher on the sides.  I just don't feel comfortable in them, even after 2 seasons.  I'm pre-silver too, but I did a lot more freestyle growing up.  Just something to think about when you're trying them on.

You are correct the Super Dance 99 has an 8 foot rocker - they are also shorter than most dance blades - I have them and have taken them off my skates and switched to MK Dance more than a few times - wearing them now because they have the best rocker profile of all of my existing blades but always wondering about the Ultima Dance and Synchro blades.

Interesting about the sides of the dance boot - I have always felt somewhat unstable in my SP Teri Dance boot - just not quite right - maybe it is the sides that make me feel unstable!!

Good discussion. No one answer for sure.  It is a matter of personal preference.

[Query]

I really think its a matter of personal preference.

I'm sure you are right.

I love the extra support and control that top level (Graf Edmonton Special) freestyle boots give me - but the low cut back plus wearing thick squishy ski socks gives me all the range of foot and ankle motion I am physically capable of. I'm not altogether clear how that is possible - it seems contradictory to feel well supported, yet be able to move freely - but I do.

I originally feared the thick fleece socks would slip all over the place, would give me blisters, and would be uncontrollable - but that isn't true at all. Maybe because I tie the boots pretty tight, so the socks act like a plush liner (BTW plush liners are a thing that upper end Jacksons do extremely well), without giving the skin a chance to slip against the sock.

Would that work for a person with a greater range of foot and ankle motion than me? I'm not sure.

Besides, I was only happy after playing with modifications a lot, something I enjoy doing. Most people won't go to those extremes, so it makes sense to take the safest option - i.e. staying with the boot and blade brands one has been happy with in the past, unless possibly the original poster can indeed try SP Teri, and finds them even more comfortable.

I've had a lot of trouble adjusting from MK Dance to Ultima Dance blades, and assume the reverse adjustment could be just as hard. (I only use Ultima blades now because I still have several pairs of Matrix I runners I bought before I realized there was such a big difference.) The point you (Loops) make about Ultima blades being manufactured more consistently makes a lot of sense too, especially if the original poster doesn't happen to have a really good skate technician handy to correct manufacturing defects.

[Skaterpsych]

It amazes me that we have to wander in the desert of "What type of boot is right for my shape of foot?"

When I began skating, I was sold a Reidell, despite the fact that I have what I much later learned: an S P Teri foot. I would be reduced to tears with the pain in my toe area, while my heel was lifting out of the too wide back of the boot.

Simply put, the Reidell last is a great last for feet with tapered toes and generally similar in width front to back. Even when a boot manufacturer makes a custom boot, it is my understanding that they must use the same last to begin with as they do for a stock boot. They then make adjustments with the upper to better fit that foot.

But if you have what I affectionately call "Italian" feet (yes, I am Italian!), that Reidell is never going to fit you. I describe my feet as, basically, shoe boxes. I have a very broad mid- and fore-foot, with my toes fairly straight across the front of my foot (without that tapering described above) and a narrow heel. S P Teri's seem custom-made for this shape foot. They have combo lasts that can easily accommodate a broad toe box and a narrow heel.

I have also been told that Jackson boots have a similarly roomy toe box. I haven't researched Harlicks or any other brands, and cannot speak to their boot shapes.

If I, as an amateur skater, have learned this much, why can't the pros who fit us for boots tell us honestly which boot brand is more appropriate for our feet???

[Query]

Actually, an "Italian Last", in shoe lingo (a last is a form over which a shoe can be built), has roughly equal width from toe to heel - i.e., quite narrow toes. Although not all Italians have narrow toed feet, I've been told that many ladies with that foot shape love imported Italian shoes. Unmodified stock Edeas are approximately like that. I have quite wide toes, and quite narrow heels, which means I would fit stock Jacksons or Harlicks better. Not sure where stock S. P. Teri boots go in that spectrum - likely in between, as do GAMs, and, I think, Risports.

Riedell has made a lot of models boots over the years, for ice and roller skating. Some of them had relatively narrow toes, some had relative wide. In recent years, their ice skates have tended to be somewhat narrow in the toes, though not a true Italian last shape.

For custom boots, the standard lasts can be expanded in spots at the bottom too, e.g., by adding tape or putty.

In almost any business, most people market to you what they have to sell, and/or make the most money from. If a dealer mostly works with Riedell boots, and therefore gets the best deal from them, that's what they will sell you. Would you expect a VW dealer to tell you that a particular Honda model meets your needs best?

[Loops]

Not sure where stock S. P. Teri boots go in that spectrum - likely in between, as do GAMs, and, I think, Risports.

Risports are a very, very similar fit to Riedells, according to my feet.

[sampaguita]

My dance coach is a big fan of Sp-teris.  However, I ended up with Jackson Freestyles because of budget constraints.

I had Riedells and Jacksons. I have wide feet, much wider at the ball than at the heel. I like the Jacksons better.

Jackson also has a cheaper dance boot, the Finesse. Not sure if it's right for your level though.

[FigureSpins]

Having had both Jacksons and SP-Teri skates, I'd say the toe box on the Jacksons is a little roomier, but not by much.