Coaches and Adults?

[Christy]

I keep hearing that a lot of coaches prefer not to teach adults, and where I live only a very small percentage will teach adults but no one seems to have an explanation - it's just the way it is, so I'd be interested in understanding the reasons why. Any thoughts?


Mod note: topic moved to On The Boards Rink Side forum.

[icedancer]

I have seen this over and over again through the years.  I think that some coaches prefer to teach children in the hopes of them doing well at regional, national and perhaps international competitions.  They put all of their energy into this goal and of course it is a LOT of work -

Later I see these same coaches teaching only adults - and loving it for so many reasons!!

I heard an interview with Frank Carroll where the interviewer asked him whether she could take a lesson from him - he said that he had a LOT of adult skaters and enjoyed teaching adults very much. 

[mamabear]

I just posted about this on the rants and raves page.  Until someone said something there, I had never given any thought to one of the coaches NOT taking adult skaters.  I really don't know of any of them that don't but there may be some where that is their policy and I just don't know it.  I wonder if in our case they are more likely to take on anyone because it's a small rink and not a highly competitive program (I'm not trying to put down our skaters that compete in any way).  Skaters that want to be more competitive tend to move to a different area and so coaches here may need to accept a wider range of skaters for financial reasons.  Having said that, there are two coaches that tend to teach the adult classes and so I think most of the adults that take private lessons (I think there are 6 of us) take from one of those coaches.  But, when I was still taking group lessons, a wide range of coaches subbed and I actually like that because I could see the different techniques.

[lutefisk]

At my rink most of the coaches DO take on adult students.  Maybe our coaches are hungry?  There is one coach who seems hesitant--she has an affinity for small children, and if a kid is told to jump, (s)he jumps. OTOH, I think adults make her nervous--we have the annoying habit of asking a lot of questions!  Now if I were a coach it'd be the other way 'round...

[TreSk8sAZ]

Some coaches simply aren't skilled at relating to and teaching adults. For the most part kids are fearless. You ask them to do something, and they go try it. Sometimes you don't even have to explain, you can just show them and they mimic. Not every child is like this, but for the most part I think coaches (especially at lower levels) can get away with teaching at a less technical level for kids.

With adults, many times it's the opposite. They have to have a better understanding of the technical aspect of moves as the adults have a voice - they ask questions, they want to understand where each part of the body should be, and they have more fear so they aren't just going to try something after being visually demonstrated it once or twice. Some coaches simply can't break things down this way - whether they weren't taught it by their own coaches, they don't think that way so they can't verbalize it, or whatever. It's not that they are bad coaches, it's just that they can relay the information to an adult in a manner that works for the skater. The adults also usually know how they learn, so they want a coach tailored to that style of teaching.

My rink has coaches of all levels - basic skills coaches, beginning private lesson coaches, all the way through coaching International (Grand Prix level) competitors - singles, pairs, and ice dance. There are some coaches that will only coach skaters that have doubles and up, or are seriously training to go to regionals. There are some coaches that only teach up to pre-pre, then need to hand the skater off to a more qualified coach. And there's everyone in between. Some take adults and do well with them, others prefer not to as they have enough work from the kids and their style of coaching simply doesn't mesh well with the majority of adult skaters.

[Christy]

It's great to see that there are rinks where coaches are happy to take on adult skaters and I have to confess to a massive pang of jealousy for rinks where there are lots of coaches

I have to say that I always thought it would be easier to coach an adult - whilst they may ask more questions and want to know about body positions etc. most of the adults I've met have been way more committed to learning, and also seem to be a bit less emotional  , than some of the kids.

[FigureSpins]

A coach whose career goals include having skaters qualify for Nationals every year and testing through Golds would likely want to focus on a homogenous group of skaters, all working their way up the ladder.  A talented adult skater with the commitment, time and money to test/compete would be in a similar category but many adults don't have that luxury, so there are few that fit the bill, so to speak.

In that vein, the Adult test/competition requirements are shifting more and more towards the standard track, but there are still some differences that require careful research and memorization to make sure that their lesson plans and programs for adult skaters are up to date.  (It would be horrible to include an illegal element in a competition program or present a skater who doesn't know the correct MITF patterns at a test session.)  Not a lot of time, but still, extra effort.  If they've already got a good working model for the rest of their skaters, why diversify? 

Adult skaters that don't have goals and aren't committed to skating require specialized lesson plans and often make the coaches feel like they're taking advantage of the skater if they don't progress.  (In fairness, the same is true of younger skaters but they're more likely to get bored or frustrated.  Adults look at this "what shall we work on today" lessons as an exercise program so they don't mind going over skills multiple times.)

I will say that vanity is an issue, on all sides.  Parents who go the whole nine yards to ensure that Susie/Michael skate four times a week, take lessons, do clinics/workshops and cross-train off ice feel good about themselves and their skater.  And they tell anyone who'll listen, lol.  As a result, the coach looks good: "Oh, look how great Kevin is skating.  He just passed Juvenile!  (coach) is excellent."  That leads to a good reputation for the coach, which attracts more skaters.  To have a skater who doesn't progress reflects poorly on the coach, so some coaches can afford to be choosy. 

[FigureSpins]

One other thought: many coaches have specialities.  For example, I do NOT coach ice dance - I focus on freestyle and moves.  Therefore, I wouldn't take on a student who wanted to go into ice dancing beyond the very-basics.  I can teach the dance elements, but for learning/testing dances, I recommended another coach. 

I had two lovely adult students who shared a weekly lesson that focused on Moves and then I worked individually with the one wanted to learn spins but not jumps, then the other, who wanted jumps not spins.  (Jack Spratt and all that!) 

[jlspink22]

My daughters coach will teach kids through adults, and has coached some kids from 4 through their 20s and up.  But some coaches at the rink only focus on the higher level competitors - there is just not enough time to dedicate beyond that group of kids between traveling with them and the lessons. Most of our adult skaters though skated as kids or started later in their teens. There is just not the demand for adult figure skating like there is adult hockey leagues.

[davincisop]

My old coach pretty much worked exclusively with adults because that's what she enjoyed doing.

Right now as far as I know, I'm my coach's only adult student. She and I are friends previous to the coaching relationship so it worked well, and her students have grown up with her teaching them.

I'm only about a year and a half younger than her I think, so we start our lessons off chatting and catching up. She knows how to explain things in a way that I'll get them.

But I know there's some coaches that refuse to work with adults and others that just have so many children students that they don't get considered because they rarely work with adults.

[Neverdull44]

Hmmm. . . . at the rinks I've skated at . . . . .I've observed coaching by levels more than coaching against adults.   Saturday morning, our rink has 3 hours of hard core, group figure skating.  Dance class, power class, spins & jumps, and then synchro.   Almost every coach teaches in these classes.   I was 44 years old, and doing it (except synchro) with all the girls.   I'd say that every single coach spent time with me.   Only one, who was an Olympic level coach, really didn't give me "alot" of advice, but she gave me some too.  She really worked with the advanced skaters, for which I am not.  In fact, I think alot of the coaches spent more time with me than sometimes their other skaters.  Now, I take an adult group class.  The coach isn't my coach, but she comes over and spends time with me, pointers, etc.  At our other local rink, I know the coaches.  I go over there every few months.   They all say "hi" at the rink, Facebook friends with some, and are all encouraging.  There is one coach who works with about 5 girls, intermediate level.  But, she's busy with 5+ girls whenever I go over to that rink.  I don't expect her to drop everything and come over to me.  Session is over, and I take off my skates and she runs to talk with the parents.   They are all working.

Years ago in Atlanta, I had a private coach and wasn't involved in group lessons.  The coaches were all nice, but weren't outgoingingly nice.   They were teaching others, and I was in my lesson.  If I were to fall hard, they'd help.  If there was a problem with the ice, they'd help.   

Skating isn't a "chatty" sport.  Everyone's busy on the ice.  I don't take that as being "not liking adults."   Just, sometimes, it's coaching ethics to not approach skaters who are already with a private coach.  Alot of internal rink conflict seems to happen with "fresh meat" skaters who don't have a coach, or approaching another coach's student.

Some coaches spend alot of money/time to become high level coaches, charge more, and dance cards are already full with the more advanced skaters.   That's usually not adults.     I have a gold level coach, and she muddles along with me. 

[Doubletoe]

Nobody has ever come out and said this that I know of, but I can only imagine that coaches who don't coach adults are very results-oriented coaches who want to know that their students have the potential to learn, improve and master triple jumps and level 4 spins.  We adults are limited in how much we can improve, due to our older brains and older bodies, and that may make things boring and unsatisfying for some competitive coaches.  On the other hand, I know some coaches who have coached high level skaters but say they enjoy coaching adults because they can have meaningful discussions with them.  That's my kind of coach!

[Neverdull44]

That's just silly that a coach wouldn't want to coach an adult!

We adults try very hard and take this support very studiously.   We listen and try, even if our bodies refuse.  And, it's the adults who are EARLY to the rink, warming up, stretching, too.   And, the coach doesn't have to spend time chit-chatting with our parents afterwards for 15+ minutes.   We are efficient students for them.  And, the fact that it takes us longer to learn (or relearn) a move  . . . . means more income for them in the long run.   We are going to be at this for decades, whereas so many of the kids seem to drop out and never return to the ice.  Adult skaters are the perfect business model.

[AgnesNitt]

I live in an area and skate at rinks where there are huge adult programs. I don't pick them for that reason, I show up and they have them. Maybe this is a regional thing. For example, I've heard that in Chicago adult skaters are shunned at many rinks.

[JSHalo]

I chose my coach specifically because she said she enjoyed working with students of all ages, including adults. The other coaches don't seem as keen on it (but I don't know), as I've only ever seen my coach with adult skaters (she's got at least six). Her personality just seems more geared towards older teens and adults.

Likewise, I teach several girls to ride horses and always enjoy the older kids more. My teaching style suits them more, as I am very much a lover of theory. They're more willing to learn the technical side, and are more concerned about their horses' well being. Plus they listen better! I tend to be able to advance them much more quickly than I can small children.

[Christy]

That's just silly that a coach wouldn't want to coach an adult!

I have been told that specific coaches in our area will not coach adults.

[Meli]

I know some coaches probably wouldn't want an adult because of schedule.  I have a J-O-B.  I have to be there from 8 to 5, Monday through Friday.  The last freestyle of the day is 5-6pm.  There are no early early freestyles at my rink.  So... someone would have to either do the lesson after skate school (and not get home until 9) or give up a prized weekend spot.

Some coaches that I've been around just give off that "I don't deal with adults" vibe.  It's a little weird.  I would have considered a few of them when I had to change coaches last year, but they just weren't approachable.  On the flip side, I know that there are LTS kids that make the "no fly" list among the coaches for various reasons.

Oddly enough, my current coach had told my previous coach that she wanted to take me when the previous coach was trying to line us up with possible replacements.  (Coach was moving.)  She had another adult at a similar level and would be able to manage both of us without much issue.

Still, when my previous coach told me she was moving, I was in a total panic because I look like a hopeless case... or a really big challenge.  (Getting a chubby chick to jump?  REALLY?)  I almost wanted to wear a sign that said: Looking for coach.  Must be patient.  Must not yell.  Must be able to communicate fine details.  Must not be offended by occasional swear word.  Will pay cash, show up for lessons, practice often, and be willing to make an effort. Will not cry unless actually injured.

[jlspink22]

I know some coaches probably wouldn't want an adult because of schedule.  I have a J-O-B.  I have to be there from 8 to 5, Monday through Friday.  The last freestyle of the day is 5-6pm.  There are no early early freestyles at my rink.  So... someone would have to either do the lesson after skate school (and not get home until 9) or give up a prized weekend spot.

At our Rink there is early mornings that I see adults at but not all the coaches will teach that early.  And then they take the little kids from 2:30-3:30 before all the older girls get out of school, and then the older girls skate 3:30-5:30. I have to work remotely 2 afternoons a week to get my daughter to her 3:30 lesson.

[Neverdull44]

It may be because of liability,   Adults are more likely to get hurt when they fall.   But, I also think that most adults don't skate beyond their level  If I saw an adult that was skating beyond their level, then I would think the coaches would definitely shy away from that adult.

[JSM]

My coach has skaters of all ages and levels, and she likes them all for different reasons.  But she loves adults because we tend to actually practice!    

[blue111moon]

I know a few coaches who refuse to coach adults.  For most of them it's because they are results-focused and don't believe that having a student medal at Adult Nationals doesn't have the same weight on their resume as getting kids through Regionals or Sectionals.  But I also know a couple coaches who think that coaching adults is "too hard."  I've taught group lessons to kids and adults for decades and teaching adults is different from teaching kids.  Kids, especially the little ones basically copy what is shown to them.  Adults want explanations, and usually detailed explanations and they want to understand what body part goes where before they try to move.  Some coaches aren't good at or comfortable with that level of verbal communication.  I think it's wise of them to stay away from doing something they don't care for just for the money they earn from student.

Also adults generally progress much slower than children.  Some coaches get frustrated by the lack of rapid progress they perceive adults make (in general). 

The main thing to keep in mind is that it's generally better to know up front that certain coaches don't want to teach adults for whatever reasons.  At least they are open about it.  I'd rather they do that than keep their mouths shut, and take on a adult just for the money while secretly (or not so secretly) grumbling about it or only doing it half-heartedly.

[fsk8r]

I know a few coaches who refuse to coach adults.  For most of them it's because they are results-focused and don't believe that having a student medal at Adult Nationals doesn't have the same weight on their resume as getting kids through Regionals or Sectionals.  But I also know a couple coaches who think that coaching adults is "too hard."  I've taught group lessons to kids and adults for decades and teaching adults is different from teaching kids.  Kids, especially the little ones basically copy what is shown to them.  Adults want explanations, and usually detailed explanations and they want to understand what body part goes where before they try to move.  Some coaches aren't good at or comfortable with that level of verbal communication.  I think it's wise of them to stay away from doing something they don't care for just for the money they earn from student.

I had one coach who said that he never understood adult skaters and how they learnt until he took up golf. He started asking the same sorts of questions his adult skaters asked. It was a revelation to him and made him a better coach as a result.
It's worth recognising that we do learn different. I'm not sure where the cut off point is, because some teens will ask questions like adults while those who've learnt to skate at a much younger age just get on with the watch and copy approach.

[Doubletoe]

That's just silly that a coach wouldn't want to coach an adult!

We adults try very hard and take this support very studiously.   We listen and try, even if our bodies refuse.  And, it's the adults who are EARLY to the rink, warming up, stretching, too.   And, the coach doesn't have to spend time chit-chatting with our parents afterwards for 15+ minutes.   We are efficient students for them.  And, the fact that it takes us longer to learn (or relearn) a move  . . . . means more income for them in the long run.   We are going to be at this for decades, whereas so many of the kids seem to drop out and never return to the ice.  Adult skaters are the perfect business model.

Some coaches want more than just a steady number of students.  Some coaches are always hoping to end up with that one student who becomes a national or international champion, making the coach a household name (which not only provides ego gratification for the coach, but also an opportunity to increase his/her hourly rates and get first pck of any top skaters looking to switch coaches).  An adult skater will never be that feather in a coach's cap.

[Kitten23]

I have always scratched my head at coaches who wouldn't take on adult skaters.  In the years I've skated, I have watched dozens of kids simply quit due to various reasons.  90% of the adults I skated with 5 years ago are still skating.  Approximately 20% of the kids are still there.  We may be slower, but we'll stay.  Maybe it's because we know how much it costs.

[techskater]

For example, I've heard that in Chicago adult skaters are shunned at many rinks.

Don't know where you heard that.  Not true anywhere on the North, Northwest, or West side/suburbs and I've been AROUND.  A LOT.  Probably 15+different rinks in this area.  It could be specific individuals?