Result of 3 hours of driving and today's Skate fitting.

[jlspink22]

Bear with me but I want to type this out ....


Last year we measured my daughters foot and was checked against a stick in a local shop. She was wearing 11s in Riedell 12W but they were falling apart and she was complaining her toes hurt. I figured - 4 yr old chunky feet, riedell is apparently narrow even thought she was only measuring a little over a 10 on the stick.

Her apparent Jackson size was a 10.5 on one foot, 11 on the other, I had 11.5B Jacksons at home I picked up on ebay, so we made the switch. A lot of sites say go up a half size for wiggle/growing room.  Eventually she outgrew them, so I picked up another used pair of Jackson Artistes in a 12B. Those eventually started to hurt so I put a size 12 in Riedells on her and while they relieved the pain they looked too big.


Fast forward to today, Andrew at West Orange's Edge skate shop takes one look at her foot and tells me to put her in a Riedell Stride. Her foot measured at just under an 11. So the other skates were too big. Now I was like - that's it? I drove 1.5 hrs for that? So I was like are you sure? He said well you could do the Jackson Elle or Freestyle - difference wasn't that noticeable to me, but price wise I did not need to spend the extra for the 10 jump in stiffness when she is 40 lbs.

Anyways, DD says she wants the Jacksons, measure her - comes out at just over an 11 - would order her an 11.5. I was like no way! She's on a 12 and they hurt! He even said her foot was narrow and since the Riedell's have been re-designed, that he does not feel Jackson has a wider last.

After trying on 12C in Mystiques, and confirming the toe pinching (though less tears than the 12B at home), and 11.5 in Riedell Emeralds (no Stride in stock), we decided to go with an 11.5 in Riedell so she would have some growing room/toe wiggle AND be able to heat mold them. We may be able to still use her Jubilee blades from the 12s - better blade he said then the one it comes with normally.

Some things I noted from today:
- The PVC coated Jacksons may have hurt because they have no give, even though the boot is technically leather.
- Her foot was likely being pushed forward in the Jackson boot by the shape of it- which makes sense because the foot impression in her old boots suggests about 1cm of room behind the heel.
- The actual width of the Jacksons did not appear different from Riedell however they have different shapes. The Riedell had a nice high/rounded toe box which worked better with my DDs feet (straight across for the toes, not tapered) and the Jackson's is clearly tapered. My daughters feet are about the same width from heel to toe, I must have asked a million times if he was sure they were not wide but now I am convinced it is the tapered boot shape vs the rounded toe box. I just put her old 11.5B Freestyles on her and no way those suckers fit!
- The Riedell Emerald which she tried on was softer than what I would expect for a stiffness of 20 (Artiste's were 20). I am also convinced they have a GEM line to get more parents to buy the skates for their beginners because my DD was fascinated by the sparkles on the toe plate!

So in a week I will make another 3 hour trip to pick up her skates and get them molded. Hopefully I won't walk out with a ton of extra crap too (ie Rockers or the like lol).

[Neverdull44]

Did he take out the insole and show it under her foot?

Too big skates do hurt, and too small do too.

[twinskaters]

Did he take out the insole and show it under her foot?

Too big skates do hurt, and too small do too.

That's what I was wondering. It's really easy to see when you put the foot on the insole outside the boot.

I hope the Riedells work for her! I feel lucky so far with my kids that despite a lot of regular clothing drama and preferences, their skate fittings have been super easy.

[jlspink22]

[jlspink22]

That's her artistes in 12B. I just tried them on without this insert (there's another lining under it) and she said the arch hurt. Which means some toe squish was relieved but a new issue.

[jlspink22]

I'm sure the padding inside has already molded incorrectly too.

[Neverdull44]

Those skates were way too big.

[twinskaters]

OMG yes, way too big! Did she have a fitting for those? Because if she did, I would not go back to that person!

[jlspink22]

Those skates were way too big.

I just put the 11.5 Freestyle Jacksons back in my convection oven (what the heck) and put them back on her and she's crying. She said the ankle hurts, the arch hurts and her toes are squished - when theoretically these are the right size. That's why I said I think her foot was being pushed forward by the boot shape/ to fit the toe taper.

[Willowway]

And sometime the pain can be caused by the arch in the boot and the skater's arch being misaligned - has happened to me many times when the heel nestles right in there but the arch of the boot is slightly off of where mine is. The pain is actually intense if the boot is laced tight.

[jlspink22]

And sometime the pain can be caused by the arch in the boot and the skater's arch being misaligned - has happened to me many times when the heel nestles right in there but the arch of the boot is slightly off of where mine is. The pain is actually intense if the boot is laced tight.

This could be part of the problem with the Jackson's too. I tried to push her heel farther back in the 12s and she pointed to the arch being painful.  Then the 11.5s where her foot was forced into place she complained about the arch again. I could see her foot naturally sliding into the part of the boot shaped most like her foot.

[Loops]

Well, you'll know more of course, once the skates are in and in use.  But it sounds like this was a learning experience!  Hopefully your daughter will be a happy camper in the new skates.  Is there a rink at this fitters, so you can at least test-drive the boots, check alignment and punch out as necessary before you head home?  Do expect to make a third trip back there for punching out and potentially for blade alignment.   But if the guy turns out to be good, it's worth every mile to get to him/her. 

I know 3 h round trip sounds like I lot, but my parents routinely did that when I was a kid- just for sharpening!   We had to cross a very heavily traveled drawbridge to get there, so that was a minimum time. But he's great, and worth traveling any distance to get to.  Now, I had to travel 5.5 hours one way+ hotel room for an incompetent skate shop, who I'd never let touch my skates under any circumstance, and I'll certainly never buy from them again.

In this world, a good skate tech is worth his/her weight in gold, or whatever the most precious substance is these days.

[jlspink22]

There is a rink across the street. Before I go up there again I'll ask if she can test them out. I drive 1 hr each way to work (longer if bad traffic) so I am used to driving. I'll just pop in a movie for the kid.


The funny thing is, the head coach at DDs rink was an Olympic pairs skater for the US and this guy is the British equivalent. Both slightly awkward too ha ha. Our rink can order whatever but they - like most of the close rinks - are hockey oriented. Which doesn't make sense since we have Olympic ice dancers and national level competitors.

[Loops]

The funny thing is, the head coach at DDs rink was an Olympic pairs skater for the US and this guy is the British equivalent. Both slightly awkward too ha ha. Our rink can order whatever but they - like most of the close rinks - are hockey oriented. Which doesn't make sense since we have Olympic ice dancers and national level competitors.

That's how it is here, too.  One of our coaches competed at worlds in dance, and we've a number of skaters that hold their own nationally, we've even had a couple people go on to compete at worlds and the Olympics in recent years.  But nope, not an, ahem, "proper" skating shop in sight.  Our club gets everyone their skates by mail order with someone there doing the measuring. Between you and me (and everyone else here), most of the adults at least are in skates that are too big for them.  Can't speak for the kids, 'cause I don't see them enough.  I'll be traveling half-way across the country for the next round of boots, and already trying to sort out  the plan B of going back to my old fitter in the US for them, since they'll probably take longer to order than we'll be stateside.  Good, or even competent fitters are such an asset. 

[Query]

So the other skates were too big. Now I was like - that's it? I drove 1.5 hrs for that?

It was not a waste of time. That he found the problem so quickly just suggests he knows what he is doing. If your other shop put you in the old skates that fit that badly, your daughter may be a lot happier and possibly skate a lot better in the new boots. Think of it as an investment in her long-term health and prevention of a lot of potential medical grief down the road.

AFAICT from the imprint on the insole, your old skates (on at least that foot) weren't too big in the mid-foot. Just at the heel and the forefoot. They were probably also forcing your daughters foot to bend too far back in the foot to match the bend in the footbed of the boot - feet generally bend best near the balls of the feet. Just one more reason for her foot to hurt.

Skate fit is more critical, but to some extent, shoes are shoes. Any shop that fit hockey players, runners, basketball players, dancers, or rock climbers the way your daughter was fit at the old shop would make a lot of them unhappy too. Just ask the local hockey skaters. Maybe the old shop doesn't sharpen well either.

BTW, it makes lots of economic sense for most shops to be hockey oriented. Serving several nationally or internationally competitive skaters isn't of much economic important to a pro shop. There is only economic room for a very small number of pro shops that specialize in serving the elite figure skating community.

[jlspink22]

It was not a waste of time. That he found the problem so quickly just suggests he knows what he is doing. If your other shop put you in the old skates that fit that badly, your daughter may be a lot happier and possibly skate a lot better in the new boots. Think of it as an investment in her long-term health and prevention of a lot of potential medical grief down the road.

BTW, it makes lots of economic sense for most shops to be hockey oriented. Serving several nationally or internationally competitive skaters isn't of much economic important to a pro shop. There is only economic room for a very small number of pro shops that specialize in serving the elite figure skating community.

He gave me an hour appointment so I wasn't expecting 10 minutes! And yes way more kids play hockey.... The one guy said the parents tend to just drop the money on hockey gear and not think twice (around here anyways). Then the kids come in with their old skates still to be sharpened and old gear half the time.

I think the head coach tends to fit the younger kids for skates and he does sharpenings but he's hardly available.

[sarahspins]

I just put the 11.5 Freestyle Jacksons back in my convection oven (what the heck) and put them back on her and she's crying. She said the ankle hurts, the arch hurts and her toes are squished - when theoretically these are the right size. That's why I said I think her foot was being pushed forward by the boot shape/ to fit the toe taper.

I'm a little late jumping in to comment, but all of this would suggest to me that Jacksons just aren't the right shape for her feet.  The fact that you feel her heel doesn't sit all the way back in the boot supports that as well.  It's one of the things that I liked about Jackson, but i have very curved heels (as does my daughter), so it was nice to have a boot that fit that shape naturally.  For someone with a very different shaped heel, it would definitely be less than ideal.

She may do much better with the Riedells once they come in - they do have a much less dramatic heel counter shape compared to Jackson, so that may help her foot seat more comfortably in the boot, rather than being pushed forward (which in addition to having the potential for localized discomfort, impacts the placement of everything else inside the skate).

FWIW though, my last pair of boots required an 8 hour round trip for the fitting, and I would have gone further if I had needed to.  My daughter's next pair will probably require the same.

[AgnesNitt]

I may not have followed all the issues w/ the boot. But if her foot is not setting in the heel and the toes are cramping, this may work (it worked for me)

http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2014/10/boot-fit-ii-heel.html

[jlspink22]

I'm a little late jumping in to comment, but all of this would suggest to me that Jacksons just aren't the right shape for her feet.  The fact that you feel her heel doesn't sit all the way back in the boot supports that as well.  It's one of the things that I liked about Jackson, but i have very curved heels (as does my daughter), so it was nice to have a boot that fit that shape naturally.  For someone with a very different shaped heel, it would definitely be less than ideal.

She may do much better with the Riedells once they come in - they do have a much less dramatic heel counter shape compared to Jackson, so that may help her foot seat more comfortably in the boot, rather than being pushed forward (which in addition to having the potential for localized discomfort, impacts the placement of everything else inside the skate).

FWIW though, my last pair of boots required an 8 hour round trip for the fitting, and I would have gone further if I had needed to.  My daughter's next pair will probably require the same.

8 hours! I would be making a sight seeing trip of that!

I just really hope when she gets the stride on she is OK with it. The Emeralds are only a 25 which I think are close the the Artiste but they felt really "soft". And I don't want to not have boots that can't be punched out to make them last a bit longer than 3 months.

[iomoon]

Ugh... that's horrible. Unfortunately, they don't make things so easily customizable for lower stiffness boots. I hope you find a proper one soon!