Can hard guards (Rockerz) dull blades?

[Christy]

I've noticed that my new matrix blades seem to be getting dull much quicker than the previous ones and I'm trying to work out why. The only thing that has changed is that I recently bought hard guards (Rockerz) and they're a very tight fit on the blades (I previously had soft guards and the Rockerz are the only hard guards I could find which would actually fit the matrix blades). Is it possible that the guards could be dulling the blades?

[rd350]

Hmm, I doubt it.  I also have new blades and the Rockerz, which I never had before, but have not had that issue.

[AgnesNitt]

Maybe you've got the wrong Rockerz?
http://www.rockerzinc.com/

[Christy]

Maybe you've got the wrong Rockerz?
http://www.rockerzinc.com/

[Query]

I've never used the RockerZ, so I don't know if they could cause that problem. But I know that if guards get dirty on the inside, they can dull blades. Keep them clean. Also, they should fit tight - any motion as you walk would wear the blades.

And of course don't store the blades in hard guards. They will hold water, so the blades rust and corrode. Hard guards should only be used for a few minutes at a time, when walking to and from the ice. Same for keeping them in a non-breathable skate bag. Blades should be stored in soakers, or uncovered, away from possible sources of abrasion.

Maybe you keep your skates outside (e.g., in a car or shed), and the humidity has changed with the weather? If you must keep them outside, oil the blades after use. In principle that helps even if they are stored indoors.

My experience with the older model of Matrix is that they were waterproof enough that rust was not a big issue - I don't oil them the way I used to have to oil my MK and Wilson blades.

Or maybe the ice is harder now, in the Winter?

Or maybe you are now a much better skater, are going faster or doing fancier things, and are noticing skids better? That is the most appealing explanation, so it must be true. 

Perhaps their quality control has gone down. isn't perfect - and your new blades might not be as hard as your old ones. A little after MK and Wilson merged into one factory, they had that problem, and about a year's worth of blades were much softer. Maybe Jackson has changed manufacturers? But I'm inclined to think other explanations are more likely, unless other people have the same experience.

P.S. If you genuinely suspect the RockerZ, line the place the blade touches with cloth athletic tape. That will cushion things a bit. If you change the tape reasonably often, that will help the contact area stay clean.

[Christy]

I've never used the RockerZ, so I don't know if they could cause that problem. But I know that if guards get dirty on the inside, they can dull blades. Keep them clean. Also, they should fit tight - any motion as you walk would wear the blades.

I try to wash the guards weekly and have yet to see any grit, etc. come out. Last week though I did notice some black marks on both the blades and the guards and they don't seem to come off when I try to wash them.

And of course don't store the blades in hard guards. They will hold water, so the blades rust and corrode. Hard guards should only be used for a few minutes at a time, when walking to and from the ice. Same for keeping them in a non-breathable skate bag. Blades should be stored in soakers, or uncovered, away from possible sources of abrasion.

I only ever use the guards for walking from dressing room to / from ice. I then rinse blades, dry them and put on soft soakers then pop them in the Zuca until I get home (around 30 mins max) then take boots out of bag and leave them on a storage rack in the house until the next trip to the rink.

Maybe you keep your skates outside (e.g., in a car or shed), and the humidity has changed with the weather? If you must keep them outside, oil the blades after use. In principle that helps even if they are stored indoors.

They don't spend more than 30 minutes outdoors, and whilst humidity has been very variable in recent weeks we have an air exchanger so it's well controlled indoors.

My experience with the older model of Matrix is that they were waterproof enough that rust was not a big issue - I don't oil them the way I used to have to oil my MK and Wilson blades.

I've never oiled the blades, but have not seen any rust on the blades either.

Or maybe the ice is harder now, in the Winter?

I skate on several different rinks of varying ages and the weather has fluctuated substantially (+10C to -20C!!) in recent weeks so the quality of ice has been very variable.

Or maybe you are now a much better skater, are going faster or doing fancier things, and are noticing skids better? That is the most appealing explanation, so it must be true. 

Now that would be nice but I notice the problems most when I'm doing waltz jumps which have never been a problem in the past.....

Perhaps their quality control has gone down. isn't perfect - and your new blades might not be as hard as your old ones. A little after MK and Wilson merged into one factory, they had that problem, and about a year's worth of blades were much softer. Maybe Jackson has changed manufacturers? But I'm inclined to think other explanations are more likely, unless other people have the same experience.

My sharpener sharpens a lot of these blades and seemed surprised at how dull mine were, so I guess they haven't noticed the problems with others.... that said, it's always possible that I have a pair which slipped through their checks......

P.S. If you genuinely suspect the RockerZ, line the place the blade touches with cloth athletic tape. That will cushion things a bit. If you change the tape reasonably often, that will help the contact area stay clean.

The fit of the Rockerz is so tight already I'm not sure I could add anything to the inside. It takes a serious amount of effort to get them off. I had hoped they would loosen with use, but so far that hasn't happened.

Since using the Rockerz I've got these marks all along the sides of my blades and they've got worse over the last few weeks
       
So I've stopped using them, except for at the competition where I knew I had to walk on the tiled floor and my softer guards (the Reebok ones) are really slippery.

[Query]

Honestly, those marks look like they would interfere with your edges. If RockerZ does that, I'd find another brand of hard guard. But it's your choice.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Does the lighter silver part where the marks are stick out further (width wise) than the darker metal that actually gets sharpened? I'm not familiar with the blades, but that's how it looks in the picture (not sure if that's just the angle or not). It looks like the top of the guards is possibly hitting the bottom of the light silver part and making the marks. That would have nothing to do with the actual edge if that's the case.

I have Rockerz and they certainly aren't super tight on my blades like you describe (and haven't ever been, really, and I've had multiple pair). When you got them, did you specify this type of blade and the right length of the blade? I know they are supposed to work with matrix, revolution, etc, but are these an older model?

My Rockerz definitely don't wear my edges down and I walk in them every day from the locker room to the ice and back. I'm on Phantoms, though, so different blade. But my Rockerz are 1/4" too big on these blades as I got them for my previous ones, so they move just enough if it was going to wear the edge down, they definitely should.

[Christy]

Well I spoke to Rockerz today and they believe that the guards were not cut correctly. I definitely specified the exact blade details but Rockerz think that based on the size of the gap between the two pieces the guards were cut for a Jackson Elite blade, not a Matrix Elite.

The Matrix blade has a wider chassis (from the days when the blades were two piece) and Rockerz didn't seem surprised by the scratches on the chassis. They said the guards move as you walk and that's causing the scratches. They suggested I could stretch the guards by putting them in the oven to heat them then putting them on the blades and letting them cool down. They also suggested putting oil inside the guards. I suggested they put that info on their website, but have decided to go back to the Reebok soft guards and only use hard guards if absolutely necessary.

[Loops]

Well I spoke to Rockerz today and they believe that the guards were not cut correctly. I definitely specified the exact blade details but Rockerz think that based on the size of the gap between the two pieces the guards were cut for a Jackson Elite blade, not a Matrix Elite.

The Matrix blade has a wider chassis (from the days when the blades were two piece) and Rockerz didn't seem surprised by the scratches on the chassis. They said the guards move as you walk and that's causing the scratches. They suggested I could stretch the guards by putting them in the oven to heat them then putting them on the blades and letting them cool down. They also suggested putting oil inside the guards. I suggested they put that info on their website, but have decided to go back to the Reebok soft guards and only use hard guards if absolutely necessary.

Ummmm aren't RockerZ pretty expensive skate guards? If THEY cut them wrong, shouldn't THEY be replacing them?  Seems like better business practice than "chuck 'em in the oven, grease 'em up and hope for the best"

[Christy]

Ummmm aren't RockerZ pretty expensive skate guards? If THEY cut them wrong, shouldn't THEY be replacing them?  Seems like better business practice than "chuck 'em in the oven, grease 'em up and hope for the best"

They're certainly expensive, but the wrong cut is only causing a gap between the two pieces, which could cause grit / debris to get to the blade (so far that hasn't happened) but even if they were cut correctly they would still be too tight, so the cooking / greasing is to address that problem.

[Query]

Does the lighter silver part where the marks are stick out further (width wise) than the darker metal that actually gets sharpened? I'm not familiar with the blades, but that's how it looks in the picture (not sure if that's just the angle or not). It looks like the top of the guards is possibly hitting the bottom of the light silver part and making the marks. That would have nothing to do with the actual edge if that's the case.

I guess you are right - I spoke too quickly, though I may have based it on the other originally-posted picture. It's probably mostly an appearance thing.

How sure is the original poster (Christy) that her blades are getting dull faster? Has it only occurred once, which could be one inconsistent sharpening by the skate tech, or has it occurred several times?

Has anyone else noticed recent Matrix blades getting dull faster than before?

[Christy]

The blades have been sharpened a couple of times. Previously I had the Matrix Legacy blade which is a softer material so should need sharpening more frequently, however the Matrix Elite is getting dull / needing sharpening with less usage. Obviously it could be an issue with the quality of that specific blade or a problem with a batch of blades but I was trying to work out what had changed - I'm skating at the same rinks, I'm using the same sharpener, I have changed the ROH slightly but the blades were dull with different ROHs, and I've started using the hard guards which are really hard to remove. Actually thinking about it, I'm just wondering if I'm dulling the blades in the way I am having to remove the guards. It takes so much effort that I might be catching the edge of the blade