No test results reported to USFS?

[jlspink22]

So this whole time my daughter has been skating and passing levels, not one test has been recorded under her USFS membership ID#.

She was "tested" at B4 but held back to review the level again, then pushed up to B5 a week later because she was too far ahead in a group too big. Now she's being held at B5 (only had 4 groups at this level) so she can work more on backwards crossovers, holding edges and those 1 foot spins.

The group coach knows the private coach yet I think the private coach thought she was on the books for passing certain levels. So now when she moves onto Freestyle, does one of her coaches just pass her in one shot?

[twinskaters]

I was under the impression that basic skills tests are entirely adjudicated at the rink level and are not reported to USFSA. In the basic skills competition manual, one of the eligibility criteria is that "no official USFSA tests may have been passed." I thought the first official test was pre-preliminary?

[jlspink22]

I was under the impression that basic skills tests are entirely adjudicated at the rink level and are not reported to USFSA. In the basic skills competition manual, one of the eligibility criteria is that "no official USFSA tests may have been passed." I thought the first official test was pre-preliminary?

OOOh that would make a lot of sense then. So does that mean she can compete at whatever level her coach deems appropriate until she takes a pre-preliminary test which is like 2+ years away if she sticks with it?

[twinskaters]

I believe that's correct, up through free skate 6. What my kids' coach did, and which I think is fairly common, was to start them competing at a level well below the skills they are capable of, with skills they had fully mastered and felt confident in. They got their feet wet that way and used to the structure and idea of competition, and built some comfort and confidence. Now he's giving them a push ahead to jump up a few levels and really work.

If your daughter is going to compete, she may find this confusing, but it really does seem to be a good way to ease a kid into competition.

[blue111moon]

As Test Chair for many many years, I can state that Basic Skills tests are NOT reported to USFS.  It's up to the rink or the club running the Basic Skills program to keep track of the tests the skaters have passed, but a lot of them leave that up to the coaches as well, depending upon how the administration is handled.  I've found that the kids themselves are pretty good at remembering where they are, especially if they get the badges. 

But since there are no official records, it does make for some odd situations at Basic Skills Competitions where coaches enter skaters in events that don't match the skater's skill level, regardless of what test she/he has passed.    That all depends on the coach's competition philosophy: is the skater there to test the skills they're working on or the ones they've already mastered?  Is the purpose to win Gold or to learn to do a program in front of judges?  Those are questions that need to be discussed with the coach.

But also keep in mind that with three or four skaters in a group, you also have three or four coaches who may all have different philosophies.  It's important to talk to your skater to find out their reasons for wanting to compete as well.

[jlspink22]

I think her coach was more concerned that - because she skates at a few rinks between groups/privates/practices - that parents or other skaters might complain if she skates much further down in ability. She's at an awkward stage where she's mastered up to B3/B4 and has passable but not competition ready B5+ skills. That and she's 5 and the other kids might be 7/8. We know she will perform by herself (see Christmas show), he says there's plenty if time to compete later. Plus her performance reflects on him as a skating director/coach, so I totally get that part too.

[DressmakingMomma]

At the basic skills competitions in our area, the club hosting puts out the paperwork to enter the competition. What I have seen on each one is a spot that asks what level your child has passed and you can skate the last level passed or you can "skate up" a level and compete in the level you are currently working on. That would mean that if you were in B5 then you would compete at B4 or skate up to compete in B5. My dd skated up because she wanted to be able to have a program with the "fun" spin. The downside was that most of the girls had mastered the elements that she was still perfecting. She came in second to last and was pretty disappointed. Turns out she is more competitive then she thought and definitely doesn't want to do that again!

Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the paper work comes out a few months before the competition, so someone could sign their skater up to compete at B4 but then have them pass B5 before the competition so they would technically be skating down.

The best thing to do is to talk with your coach about how they view the competition and what they want out of the experience for your child. Nothing that happens at a basic skills competition has any bearing on higher level competitions later on except how your dd feels about them. My viewpoint is that they should be fun, it's an opportunity to learn about good sportsmanship, put on a pretty dress, and share your love of skating with a big crowd. It is also really good for cementing skills and polishing up the fine details when you put elements to music. I notice that everything sort of comes together for my dd when she is working on a program with her coach.

Good luck and have fun!

[twinskaters]

I am uncomfortable with the idea of a coach making competition decisions based on what other skaters or parents might say. Did coach say this or are you supposing?

[jlspink22]

I am uncomfortable with the idea of a coach making competition decisions based on what other skaters or parents might say. Did coach say this or are you supposing?

Her coach did say this to me.... now let me say this is a very tight skating community up here. Everyone knows who her coach is and I did not even tell anyone myself. Her group coaches at the rink A are friends but he teaches at rink B (privates only) and is the director of the club. The actual skating director/co-owner at Rink B also teaches and was a former Olympian.

There was a recent effort to get a club up and running at rink A - and remember those parents I saw talking about my daughter - they skate out of the rink A club and the older 7 year old skates/competes at a level lower than DD.  I was also told by ANOTHER coach that the comps in the area are highly lopsided to kids who "skate down." Anyways, we aren't rushing it for now. It was more of a surprise to me that they only track badges at rink level...

[amy1984]

I just wanted to chime in re: rink gossip.  Enjoy skating.  Let your daughter have fun.  Stay out of the gossip and don't let it dictate your daughter's skating.  Lots of those parents spend a lot of time up in the bleachers with nothing to do but gossip and they can be miserable to deal with.  When I was a kid, my mom stayed clear, and as an adult, so do I.  I skate at a club with lots of inside drama.  Parents that don't like so and so, a board who is made up of said parents and doesn't always listen, etc.  If it affected my skating, I'd leave.  But right now, as long as I don't get involved, it's all good.  I'm just there to skate, not argue over club jackets or who gets solos in the ice show.  Be careful.  If your kid is in this for the next 10 years, you don't want to get in with/piss off the 'skater moms'.  I make positive comments whenever I hear gossip-ish talking.  It comes from all sides.  I make a point to say 'oh, I like watching her skate, she has a nice ____' or 'you know, she's always been really nice to me'.

Her coach did say this to me.... now let me say this is a very tight skating community up here. Everyone knows who her coach is and I did not even tell anyone myself. Her group coaches at the rink A are friends but he teaches at rink B (privates only) and is the director of the club. The actual skating director/co-owner at Rink B also teaches and was a former Olympian.

There was a recent effort to get a club up and running at rink A - and remember those parents I saw talking about my daughter - they skate out of the rink A club and the older 7 year old skates/competes at a level lower than DD.  I was also told by ANOTHER coach that the comps in the area are highly lopsided to kids who "skate down." Anyways, we aren't rushing it for now. It was more of a surprise to me that they only track badges at rink level...

[Clarice]

I was trying to figure out a way to say that, too, but Amy beat me to it and did it better than I would have.  I totally agree with her, and with your plan to not rush things.  I would add to not let yourself get sucked into drama about who's skating at what competition level, etc.  You're fairly new and learning the ropes of this sport.  Sounds like some of the other moms at your rink have become quite competitive in their attitudes already, but the truth is that none of this matters at the Basic Skills levels.  They're not formally tested and tracked, because they're not important as far as competitive skating is concerned.  There's plenty of time for that starting at Pre-Preliminary.  Actually, as far as competitive skating is concerned, nothing really matters before Juvenile level, which is the first qualifying level.  Before that, this is supposed to be about acquiring good solid foundational skills, learning how the sport works, and having fun.  (Which is important at all levels!  No point in doing this if it isn't fun, too!)  It's vital that the kids learn good skills right from the beginning, and that can't be rushed.  Every skater is on their own timetable.  The skate moms would do better to forget about who won what event at some little local Basic Skills competition and focus on their own skater's progress.  It can be hard to maintain a sense of perspective, but it's important to try if you're going to survive 10 years or more in this sport.  Chances are excellent that nobody's going to the Olympics anyway, unless they buy a ticket.

[icedancer]

Just wanted to chime in that I am in total agreement with the above posters' comments.

[FigureSpins]

In the last ten years, the USFSA has encouraged group lesson programs to use the term "evaluation" instead of "test."  It is mostly tied to "test anxiety" but it's also a bit more honest since those session-ending group evaluations really only determine what level the skater should register for next time.  There's a lot of kids who are "promoted" to keep them in the group program.

I remember one situation where a skater in Freestyle 2 groups Insisted that she should be in the FS 3 level because she had "passed" FS2 in her private coach's opinion.  The kid could barely do a three turn, couldn't spin and her jumps were like walkthroughs.  Every lesson was painful because she couldn't keep up with the other skaters at that level or the lower level freestyles.  She eventually switched to privates only. A few months later, she competed at Basic 6 and dominated because it included skills that she had mastered, so there is a disconnect between group classes and competition levels.

Btw, USFSA Basic Skills and ISI programs do not have formal registrations.  ISI tests are kept on file at the rink and only registered upon skater's request if they have an ISI membership.

Once you get beyond Basic Skills competition events, the USFSA stakes get higher: there are few limits to the skills being performed so skaters are usually performing skills from one or two test levels higher.  It's part of being a competitor rather than a participant.  Sad but true.

[twinskaters]

It's easy to get caught up in who is competing at what level and who is older than your kid but less advanced, etc. But it's all meaningless and toxic, and coaches shouldn't be encouraging any of it.

[icedancer]

It's easy to get caught up in who is competing at what level and who is older than your kid but less advanced, etc. But it's all meaningless and toxic, and coaches shouldn't be encouraging any of it.

So true.

I see a lot of parents and coaches get into it to the extent that the skaters are also upset at what they have been told is "sandbagging" by another skater/coach, etc.- we have to be very careful how we frame these things for our skaters!

[jlspink22]

It's easy to get caught up in who is competing at what level and who is older than your kid but less advanced, etc. But it's all meaningless and toxic, and coaches shouldn't be encouraging any of it.

The only reason I mentioned anything is because I can totally see this mother/woman making a stink over a competition that is more for pride than any real stakes. 

I get the feeling from most of the coaches at her club rink that Basic Skills competitions are lowest priority since they all coach skaters at varying levels from Pre-Pre up to senior. Some of the coaches won't even teach basic skills/little kids privately. I mean I know someone whose kid is doing ISI (crossovers and stuff) but competes down at snowplow sam 3 because she's 5. I mean I could have DD do that too if the rink was far enough away, but I don't think it's fair.  I guess I'd feel less guilty if this wasn't basic skills where it's supposed to be fun more than anything. I don't need drama this soon.

[twinskaters]

I understand what you're saying, but it feels like you're borrowing trouble. You can't control how anyone is going to react to your child's skating, so your decisions should be based on what is right for her skill level and confidence. If other people want to play games, that's their problem.

[jlspink22]

No I agree twin skaters. Right now it's more important to build her skill set and confidence anyways, and making sure she's not rushed through a given level.

[Query]

While it is true that BS tests and levels are only kept within a given rink's or club's local program, USFS does require that BS students and instructors be registered with USFS as such - which means they get some money. In return, USFS resells insurance - which, BTW, protects the BS program, and the instructor, from liability, but doesn't represent health or accident insurance for the skater.

Aside from getting the money, I don't think USFS cares much about BS. USFS's goal has always been to field a competitive US National team in international ISU competitions, and that doesn't occur at the BS level. All USFS wants is the money, to help support their internationally competitive program, and to pay the staff members who aren't volunteers. "Judges" for BS don't need to have training that makes sure they use consistent standards - they are often just other skaters.

Levels within a given BS program are just a convenient way of making sure that students in a group lesson are ready to learn roughly the same things, and have roughly comparable backgrounds. Since different local programs apply different standards of pickiness which vary somewhat from nominal USFS standards, it wouldn't make sense for the national organization to be concerned with what happens at the BS level.

[twinskaters]

While it is true that BS tests and levels are only kept within a given rink's or club's local program, USFS does require that BS students and instructors be registered with USFS as such - which means they get some money. In return, USFS resells insurance - which, BTW, protects the BS program, and the instructor, from liability, but doesn't represent health or accident insurance for the skater.

Aside from getting the money, I don't think USFS cares much about BS. USFS's goal has always been to field a competitive US National team in international ISU competitions, and that doesn't occur at the BS level. All USFS wants is the money, to help support their internationally competitive program, and to pay the staff members who aren't volunteers. "Judges" for BS don't need to have training that makes sure they use consistent standards - they are often just other skaters.

Levels within a given BS program are just a convenient way of making sure that students in a group lesson are ready to learn roughly the same things, and have roughly comparable backgrounds. Since different local programs apply different standards of pickiness which vary somewhat from nominal USFS standards, it wouldn't make sense for the national organization to be concerned with what happens at the BS level.

This is all consistent with our BS class and competition experience.