First competition

[ferelu]

Hi. My daughter is in a group class and she was given a form to register her for a competition. So she did the competition and she skated like she always did, yet she was vastly inferior to the rest of the skaters. I asked the coach why she got last place. The coach told me, she needed to skate more and to take private lessons. It was clear that all the other girls were already in private lessons. My question is, why would the group coach ask her to sign up for a competition where she is clearly not at the level for. How was I supposed to know it was for a level above her? How would you have felt?

[rd350]

I can see how that would be disturbing.  I hope it wasn't just to get her to do privates.  You should have that discussion with the group coach or the school director.

Not that it should be up to you, but going forward I would also ask specifically.

[ARoo]

My question is, why would the group coach ask her to sign up for a competition where she is clearly not at the level for?

This may not be easy to answer.  Basic skills skaters don't usually skate right at the level where they are skating for group classes.   Generally they will compete a bit lower since they are still working toward mastering the things they are currently learning, but some coaches don't subscribe to that methodology.  There can be a really wide variation in skills for the same level.  It mostly comes down to your coach's philosophy.

A skater in Basic 4-5 group classes may only be competing at Basic 2-3. Since there are no real rules about where kids have to compete at the basic skills level, a lot of coaches will have their skaters compete a couple levels down.  You'll find that there is just always a wide range at any level, even at the very top. 

Also, keep in mind that your coach can't really know what other skaters will be present. While your skater may not have done well at this particular competition, maybe she would have taken 1st at a different one.  They aren't skating against the book so the placements will always depend on who else shows up.  Some competitions are tougher than others. 

[saje]

Also, I want to point out that it might not have been the coach's decision to give you the flier.  I coached learn to skate for a number of years in high school and college and we were often given fliers to hand out to the students (for things such as skate with santa, basic skills competitions, etc).  If this is the case, you should talk to the skating director about your concerns. 

[cbskater]

I can see where you felt blindsided & a coach shouldn't push private lessons like that. It does sound like she was entered in too high a level.

The best thing that you can do is educate yourself about this sport. Talk to other parents, skaters & coaches. Read & watch videos online. I knew nothing about figure skating when my daughter started skating. I could have made better decisions had I known more.

I know it is very hard to watch your child work so hard at something then get last place. My daughter took many last places in competitions. She did not start skating until she was 12 & didn't seriously compete until she was 14. I left the decision about what level she would compete in up to her & her coach. They were both often too ambitious about what she would be able to do & my daughter was often stressed out & in tears in the weeks before the competition. Eventually I put a stop to that. Her last competition, I refused to pay the entry for her until I saw that she could skate the program clean without being stressed out about it.

I know it's a competiton and everyone would like to get first place, but it can't just be about winning. Going out on the ice alone & skating you best, your best for you, not compared to the other skaters is an accomplishment. Yes, it's better to enter a level that you have a chance of medaling in, but it's got to be about the love of skating not the love of winning.

[jbruced]

If this was a ploy by the coach to get your daughter to be enrolled in private lessons--I would be mad. If this was a chance to get your daughter in a competition because your daughter wants to compete---I wouldn't be mad and would consider the possibility of more skating time and private lessons if the family budget can afford it.

In any competition someone wins and someone loses. Sometimes the spread between a winning score and a losing score is heartbreakingly close. Sometimes its a heartbreaking blowout. One thing that many kids don't get today is the lesson that some times you win and some times you lose. In each case the kids need to learn to accept their win or loss with grace and dignity.

Another thought just came to mind. May be your daughters coach put her into a competition with better skaters so she can see where she is heading if she sticks with it. Kind of along the lines of--If you want to soar with eagles you must fly with eagles, not waddle with turkeys.

Kids learn a lot from other kids especially when those other kids are more experienced/skilled than the child is. It really could be a good experience for your daughter.

[Gabby on Ice]

Kids usually compete 1 or 2 levels below their class level for basic skills competitions. I do agree that coaches shouldn't push private lessons, and you should only do privates and get more ice time if you can afford it. There has to be a first place and a last place if you choose to compete. Even if you skate your absolute best, that doesn't guarantee that you will place well. And yes, winning is fun, but you don't always win, so you need to have a different goal.

[Twizzler]

actually there is a rule about what level to skate at.

From the USFS Basic Skills Competition Manual--"Eligibility will be based on skill level as of closing date of entries. All Snowplow Sam and Basic Skills 1-8 skaters must skate at highest level passed or one level higher and NO official U.S. Figure Skating tests may have been passed including MIF or individual dances."

That said, some coaches do place kids at lower levels than the rule indicates, simply by not testing them as early as they are ready. Other clubs (mine included) emphasize passing too much and pass kids who haven't really learned the elements adequately. Then when that child competes they may be more disappointed than need be. But, even if all the kids in a competition group are truely "equal" some will happen to skate their very best that day, while others may not. And as other posters have said, only one can come in first, etc.

I try to emphasize "skate your best" "have fun" etc with my students, but of course some take their placement very easily and some cry endlessly over a second place.

The main question is did your daughter enjoy the whole competition process, ie: the practices before hand thru the actual event. If yes, you might consider doing it again. Competing can teach all kinds of life skills to kids, like working for a goal, presenting to a group (think business meeting), winning (or not) gracefully and dealing with stress.

A private coach is not required to compete at the Basic Skills level, but many kids do have private coaches even at these beginning levels. You might want to get some private lessons for your daughter, if not on a regular basis, perhaps for a few weeks before the next competition. It may just be that all the instructors were told to hand out flyers to all the skaters just to encourage participation. However, if you feel the coach in question set you up in order to get you to take privates, I would avoid him/her. That's not the attitude you are looking for in a coach. 

[Query]

[BTW I'm not a paid private coach - just an unpaid volunteer group lesson instructor.]

I coached learn to skate for a number of years in high school and college and we were often given fliers to hand out to the students (for things such as skate with santa, basic skills competitions, etc).

That's true where I volunteer. All the students are supposed to get the BS competition flyers. Though we do try to make it so most students win something.

I can see where you felt blindsided & a coach shouldn't push private lessons like that.

I know what I say next may bother some of you, but it seems to me valid anyway:

Various coaches and figure skating directors have told me that it is pretty normal and accepted for coaches to teach group lessons in order to recruit private students. That's part of how they recruit group lesson instructors, who are often paid less than they can earn as private lesson coaches. For the most part, recruitment happens during and after lessons rather than at competitions - but encouraging students to take private lessons seems to be a major part of the business of being a coach.

Some coaches specifically recruit those students who need the most help as private students. Some coaches, who want to coach more competitive skaters, do the opposite, and some do both.

It's not dishonest to tell a student or their parents that private lessons help. It's just plain true. A large part of group lesson time, whether it is in sport instruction, public school, or even college, is a combination of babysitting, and working to keep the class in a semblance of order. So private lesson time is usually more productive.

It may seem unfair that money for private lessons and other things helps in sports - and academia - but it is true. In figure skating, as in many sports, it is virtually impossible to reach the upper levels without a lot of money. It would be extremely dishonest for a coach to give you the misimpression that your child can do as well as students who take private lessons.

There are also strong limits to how much individual attention you can give in a large group setting. And if you give too much feedback, in front of the class (which is the only way to find time in a large group setting), it can be very discouraging to the less talented students. There are definite trade-offs.

It's also not dishonest that private students often advance more slowly, and only test and compete after they have more fully mastered the skills, in the sense that a good private coach often tries to make sure their students master the foundation skills before learning new ones. The directions given by the USFS to BS instructors are pretty specific - you shouldn't be too strict, that the emphasis is on having fun, not on getting things perfect. That also makes sense from the economic point of view of the USFS, as well as to the local BS program, because it makes more students happy to pass levels. But many coaches feel that isn't what you should do to make the student eventually be as competitive as possible at later levels.

Also: someone always comes in last place. So if you say that a coach is at fault if their student takes last place, and that the student and coach are failures, you are implying that some coach and some student are necessarily a failure - which isn't fair either. It's important to understand that if you compete, you will sometimes not do as well as you hoped. And sometimes you may even come in last.

OK, like I said, a lot of people won't agree...

[cbskater]

[quote author=Query link=topic=6384.msg75080#msg75080 date=1420341743


Also: someone always comes in last place. So if you say that a coach is at fault if their student takes last place, and that the student and coach are failures, you are implying that some coach and some student are necessarily a failure - which isn't fair either. It's important to understand that if you compete, you will sometimes not do as well as you hoped. And sometimes you may even come in last.

OK, like I said, a lot of people won't agree...
[/quote]

Not sure if you were still referencing my post here.
The problem with many of my daughters last places, was that she did skate her best & still got last place. This says to me that she was trying to compete at too high of a level. Taking so many last places really beat her down. I had to do something to lessen the pre competition drama that we were going through & try to protect her emotional health. Having my daughter stressed out before the competition & upset after the event made for some miserable trips to & from away competitions. She totally understood getting last when she made mistakes, but not when she did her best.

[blue111moon]

Then it's up to you as the parent to help her understand that in competitions, and in life, no matter how good you are, sooner or later, someone else will be better.  And even when you do your absolute best, there will still be someone else who may be better or smarter or faster or prettier or taller or just about any adjective you choose.  The reasons why that happens will change, depending upon the situation.  The only constant is how you deal with the results.  And learning to deal with losing is a major skill in itself. 

[Doubletoe]

From what I have seen, every kid who enters competitions (even at the lowest level) is in private lessons.  If she wants to keep competing, I would advise putting her in private lessons and waiting until she is at the level of the other skaters before signing her up for another competition. This is not about protecting her from failure; this is a prime opportunity for her to learn exactly how much work it takes to succeed at something.  Ultimately, the skater who works hard will become a more successful competitor than the one who simply has natural ability.