Hockey Players Need Figure Skating Skills, my story . . . . .

[Neverdull44]

My son started really skating last year.   He was 6.  But, he wanted to play hockey.   So, I enrolled him in a little "Learn to Skate" class geared up with a hockey coach, which he did for 2 sessions.  Last Spring, he joined the Mini-Mites and now this year is on the Mites.   My husband skates and they go to Stick-n-Puck on weekends.  There, he wants to play with the puck.    I will occasionally be able to go to a public with him on the weekend, but he wants to "skate fast", race me, play around.  He doesn't want to take a lesson from old mom.

Needless to say, his mite team and mite team practices are almost always with a hockey stick in his hand, and 99% of the time is spent stick handling.  The closest they get to skating is to do "skate fast and hockey stop" type sprints.  The hockey coaches are not teaching him outside edges. Last practice, they put a cone and did a two foot glide around the cone, with the inside foot in front.   The kids were utterly confused, and did the cone work with all inside edges.   This was less than 2 minutes of a 60 minute practice.  The rest was all stick handling.   Hardly any of the kids in this group (8 & under) can do an outside edge.  Alot of these kids have been skating for 3+ years.  (The older kids on the other hockey levels do have outside edges.   . . . . )  Figure skaters at the three year mark have alot of edge control . . . .

So, I had enough aggravation watching mini-hockey monsters doing inside edges.   Inside edges even done on cross-overs, both feet!  (That's a huge loss of potential power).   Another loss of potential power are shoulders all set wrong on the crossovers (because they are carrying a stick, and can't do an outside edge, so they are using their shoulders to balance).     No kid can do parallel swizzles, less the close together parallel swizzles or power pulls.     It was enough to make my blood boil.

So, I enrolled my lad in Learn to Skate Basic 3-4.    The skating director was kind enough to allow him to do it in hockey skates.   Last night was his first night.  He "did" a one-foot glide, but it was poorly for someone who can skate so fast around the rink.  He can go only about 5 feet on one foot.  He cannot skate on one foot!   Coach showed him a three turn, but he did it on an inside three turn.   He did do the two foot spin, which amazed me.

I think this is the best $150 I've ever spent on skating.   I am so mad I didn't work with him more, but he doesn't really want to work with me anyhow.    And, he's "in love" with his coach (one of our young, teenaged ladies who's also beautiful).    I secretly hope she can get him into his figure skates.

Today, my Skating magazine came.  Page 36 shows that USA Hockey wants the kids enrolled in LTS for a year before playing hockey.  This is not happening in practice at my rink, and we are a big hockey rink.  There is a Learn to Skate, with the kids in hockey gear.  They learn going forward, backwards, but no mastery of edges.   They are all under 5 and are then encouraged to just join the mini-mites as the next level.   I think the minimum should be all edges, forwards and backwards, solid mohawks, solid crossovers.    All of this should happen BEFORE they get a stick.


 

[ChristyRN]

I had a coworker come up to me and thank me for this yesterday. Her son was interested in playing hockey. I stressed that he really needed to learn to skate before he learned to stick handle. She apparently listened. She told me he's easily the best skater on his team. She said he as far ahead of the other players. She was most appreciative of my advice.

[icedancer]

I don't know that much about the hockey programs in my town and how much they really learn BUT about ten years ago one of the rinks I skated at (where the emphasis was on hockey) a LOT of the kids were taking individual private lessons with the hockey coaches.  I hadn't seen that before - I always figured that part of learning hockey was going to classes and learning drills and edges and all of that good stuff - and THEN stick handling.

So although some of the private lessons were about handling the stick, a LOT of time was spent on edges and turns - sometimes I would copy the coach just to get his "take" on the whole edge control thing - and some of them were really good. 

The best hockey coach I was was married to a figure skater - she said that his awareness about the importance of the edge really changed after they met -

Anyway, the hockey coaches figured out how to make more money by giving private lessons - they charged the same as the figure skating coaches.

[littlerain]

At one of the rinks I skated at in California, I saw a number of hockey skills private lessons. No stick handling, just skating drills and stuff. I don't see that much at the rinks here (in the north/northwest burbs of Chicago) but they may do that at entirely separate sessions/rinks. Given that there are rinks dedicated to hockey and significant numbers of HS and travel teams, I imagine they would have private lessons and learn to skate properly. Lol!!

At any rate, I hope it all works out for your son in the end!

[PinkLaces]

One of the rinks I skate at has a program called learn to play hockey. The hockey association charged a little lesson than LTS and provided a jersey. A lot of parents put their kids in that instead. Now the hockey association wants to partner with LTS, because kids are quitting hockey - they can't skate so it isn't any fun.

[jlspink22]

The rink my daughter takes groups at is the home practice rink for the Flyers, so they have a Learn to Play Hockey SKATING program. The kids cannot put on hockey skates until they learn to figure skate. It definitely takes more to being a good hockey player than skating fast!

My daughter is so agile on skates because she skates so much lately, so hopefully your son will start to subconsciously use those skills as he is messing around on the ice. It's amazing to see how well some of the little one's move.

[4711]

One of the rinks I skate at has a program called learn to play hockey. The hockey association charged a little lesson than LTS and provided a jersey. A lot of parents put their kids in that instead. Now the hockey association wants to partner with LTS, because kids are quitting hockey - they can't skate so it isn't any fun.

Happy Gilmore?

[Query]

It's all economics.

One of the guys in charge of Montgomery Youth Hockey (Montgomery County, Maryland, USA) said they hire figure coaches because, as impossible as this sounds, the hockey coaches that teach edges well actually charge more. Decent figure skating coaches here charge $60 - $88 / hour. The best available local edges hockey coach charged something like $215 or $225 / hour. The figure skating coach that Youth Hockey guy preferred charged her hockey students more than her figure skating students (I think she said 20% or 25%), but a lot less than the good hockey coach.

[icedancer]

Wow - that is AMAZING -

My impression is that hockey is a lot more expensive than figure skating - they break those sticks all of the time - and the gear and equipment - also very spendy.

And here we thought figure skating was expensive.

[Query]

Most hockey kids don't get too serious, and don't take private lessons at all, let alone with an ex-NHL pro. They may only play in "house leagues", and don't travel. They may buy used gear, maybe $200 total or less. They may even stop after a few years.

Just like figure skating, rich parents and big ambitions can make a difference.

[accordion]

Interesting read.

Our rink has a learn to skate program that feeds into all three disciplines - speed, figure and hockey. You cannot get a place in Hockey classes until you've done Basic 1 & 2 skating. They then recommend higher levels if the skater wants to improve. The skate school teaches people in any skates. Funniest thing I've seen so far is a kid who did 3 turns in speed skates 

[Neverdull44]

Update.  I enrolled him in LTS.  The session has been going for several weeks.  He's progressing quickly!

He is in Basic 3/4.  Now, he is learning three turns in hockey skates, but he has problems holding the backwards inside edge. He's better at it if coach is holding his hand.   He can do a 2 foot spin in hockey skates, he can almost get a revolution on one foot, and . . . . . . . . drum roll . . . . . . . . .   .  . . did some GREAT BUNNY HOPS tonight in his hockey skates.   I have to get a video of this.   

He's also having fun with shoot the duck and spirals/lunges.   All in hockey skates!   He's developing his outside edges nicely.     But, it's getting to the point where he is gong to need a toe pick if he continues with the LTS.   

I wish we had Xtreme Skating at our rink . . . That's a sure way to get the hockey guys to improve skating skills to a higher level.

[AgnesNitt]

I used to go to LTS at a rink that had a Learn to Play program. I was getting bored with LTS and thought it would be fun to tackle Learn to Play in my figure skates to see if it could improve my power. I asked one of the coaches and was told that LTP was just a shadow of LTS and not to bother.

[sarahspins]

But, it's getting to the point where he is gong to need a toe pick if he continues with the LTS.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that.  He doesn't really need toe picks for a lot of elements until you start getting into basic 7 (ballet jump) and 8 (mazurka), because those toe jumps need some more "sticking" power to control than you can really get with hockey skates, but the bunny hop (in B6) and side toe hop (in B5) can be done in hockey skates.  What is really going to be difficult are the one-foot spins, but it's not impossible to do those without a toe pick, it's just more difficult (and I can tell you as an instructor, I wouldn't expect the same of a kid in hockey skates taking basic skills classes to improve his skating for hockey as I would for someone wearing figure skates on that particular element - if the rest of their skills in 5 were strong I'd let them move up).

3 turns definitely don't require toe picks - skaters used to do plenty of 3 turns in patch skates, which had no drag pick, you had to learn to balance correctly on the blade or you would fall.  Effectively hockey skates are fairly similar in this regard. 

[dlbritton]

At my rink one of the coaches for the beginning kids hockey lessons is also a figure skating and ice dancing coach so I assume she is teaching outside edges as part of the skating skills.

This past summer the rink had two 6 week sessions on teaching figure skating skills to adult hockey players with the emphasis on edges. Most of the classes were taught by figure skating coaches with a few by a hockey coach that emphasized the power gained by using outside edges properly. I was the only person in figure skates and the coaches were good at pointing out the differences, if any existed in a particular move, in moves I might make as opposed to moves the hockey players would make.

[Query]

The figure skating director in my program tells parents they really need figure skates starting at Basic 4.

I've seen hockey players with a strong figure skating background do figure skating turns, spins and jumps in hockey skates. But figure skates will help the learning process for Basic Skills, even for the two foot turns in Basic two, because of stability issues if nothing else. It is much more common for kids in hockey skates to try to use their skates as an excuse for what they can't do.

Experienced Hockey kids whose parents or coaches make them take LTS classes are often a pain in the neck for figure skating group lesson instructors, because they usually aren't interested in learning figure skating skills. They almost always much stronger and faster skaters than the kids in Basic Skills classes - so they get bored very easily, and spend their time making a nuisance of themselves.

I have a great deal of respect for good hockey coaches. I have no idea how they maintain a semblance of discipline in their classes. Training the little monsters must be a lot like training circus Lions.

[Neverdull44]

Today on public session, there was a father/son hockey duo skating.  The father was showing his son, what looked like to me, part of the 8 step mohawk sequence.  It had outside mohawks and crossovers, done on a rectangle type pattern   I stopped briefly to talk with the dad, and he said it was needed to pass into the next level of hockey for his son.   I wish I would have asked him what level that was.    The kid looked between 10-12 years old.   The father was a great skater, and he tried a three turn in his hockey skates.  He could do it.  He tried power pulls, and did a semblance of them.  I'm sure with about 3 more rounds of it, he'd have it nailed.