Figure skating blade comparison chart (mainstream brands)

[Bill_S]

I'm preparing a talk for the local skating club about blades and boots.  Among the tasks I've done so far is to create a spreadsheet that compares features and price of popular figure skating blades.

I assume that it might be useful for readers here too, so I'm providing a linked PDF. I apologize for the small type, but I need to fit everything onto one page. Since it's a PDF, you can zoom anyway.

If you find any mistakes, please let me know and I'll update the chart.

Here is where to find it:
http://www.afterness.com/skating/skate_blade_comparison.pdf

[icedancer]

I LOVE it!!!

Might have to steal this....

[Loops]

That is FANTASTIC!!!!  Thanks for sharing it.  Now if we could only get those guys to publish more details about the runner profiles (I know, I know), we'd be one informed community!

Thanks for putting it together, too.  The only thing I'd add, is that on the Vision Synchro, the toe rake is a bit different from the standard Vision- the drag pick is "angled", which it is, but I feel like it's also a little shorter, too....you can see it in the pictures they publish.  The result of this change is the drag is harder to hit, making for cleaner skating (but has a downside of making jump takeoffs and landings a little different).

I very much appreciate having all that info at my fingertips now!!!!  +GOE for you!

[streetsmart]

FYI - John Wilson Super Dance 99 is a slimline blade.

[Query]

I hope you keep the web page up - what a great resource!

I guess you know Paramount and Skate Science blades aren't listed. And except for the Astra, the cheap blades that are mostly only available with cheap skates aren't listed.

"Side honed" means a lot of different things. E.g., ground thinner in the front than the back (most common meaning), thinner at both ends (next most common meaning), thinner in the middle (same as "parabolic"), thicker at the bottom (increases the edge angle; conceivably helps on partially melted ice), thinner everywhere (same as "thin-line"), or thinner where the structural stresses are least (to save weight). It would be great if you could be more specific per blade, and list how many thousandths of an inch are different, though I'm not sure where you can find that data.

Another great thing, if you could find it, would be the spin rocker radii, which may be at least as important as main rocker.

Alas, without taking a lot of measurements, these kinds of things are very difficult to find.

Likewise, material composition, of the main blade or of the plating, isn't always easy to find.

I'm not personally certain that most forms of side honing matter. The size and shape difference in what touches the ice at any one time can mostly be measured in microns, much smaller than the surface
scratches created by sharpening, or the difference in edge shape created by variant sharpening techniques. I think it's like a lucky charm - it helps if you think it helps.

I notice you aren't giving any recommendations. Will your talk? And will you discuss the features in depth? When and where will it be, and can non-members attend? (I'd love a Youtube video.)

[Bill_S]

Thanks for the suggestions about the Vision Synchros and Super Dance 99 blades. I've incorporated those corrections in the PDF.

I really do wish that manufacturers would provide more information about rocker geometry and side honing. Even if they did provide the information, I probably wouldn't incorporate every detail in this overview. After all, most of the attendees will be LTS kids and parents. Even the detail that I included will be greek to most of them. I suspect the price column will be of most interest to the parents.

Thanks again for the comments so far.

[Bill_S]

I hope you keep the web page up - what a great resource!

My web pages will be up until I retire from the university. Once that happens, I believe that they take away my server space.

That's 3 years MAX, but possibly by the end of this academic year.

Snag what you want now.

[streetsmart]

I also notice that you don't have the Ultima Dance blade on there.  I thought maybe it was because of your audience, but you do have other dance blades on there so maybe you just missed it?

Great resource by the way!

[icedancer]

I also notice that you don't have the Ultima Dance blade on there.  I thought maybe it was because of your audience, but you do have other dance blades on there so maybe you just missed it?

Great resource by the way!

It is on there - it is now called Ultima Finesse - for dance and Synchro!

[Bill_S]

Before someone asks, I'd like to add that I didn't find any mention of "slimline" blades in Jackson's description for the dance/synchro Finesse. If they are like my discontinued Ultima Synchros, the blades are just a smidge narrower than my Coronation Aces (by about the thickness of a business card), but that's probably just manufacturing variability.

But if someone can find that the Finesse are significantly thinner than freestyle blades, I'll change the chart. Jackson's product data is sparse.

[streetsmart]

It is on there - it is now called Ultima Finesse - for dance and Synchro!

Nope, they have the Finesse in addition to the Dance. 

[Bill_S]

Yes, you are correct. I found it on the Jackson web site.

I was pulling info from retailers, and it wasn't found listed there. It looks like an 8' rocker with cross milled picks.

I'll add it when I get home from work today.

[Casey]

The Complete Book of Figure Skating (2001) breaks down blade types into four categories - parallel, side-honed, dovetail, and slimline.  I guess slimline are used on some of the dance blades.  The only example of dovetail blades I could find are Phantom Specials.

I presume that parabolic blades are the same as parallel or side-honed, with reduced width in the center.  When I had parabolic blades, I could not tell that the middle was any thinner at all by looking at the bottom, but had to deal with "PARABOLIC" being printed insanely large on the center of the side of the blades, lest I forget.  I think I would like them more if they printed an indication of the parabolic feature underneath the blade model logo in small print.

This chart made me realize there's a lot more to rocker profiles than just "7'" or "8'", and that it's probably impossible to make a comparison chart noting all the subtle differences.  Also some brands have more room for error than others:


I suspect the reason that Gold Seals feel so solid is because the flatter part of the profile comes up farther under the ball of the foot than on other blades.  That makes edges "stick" easier and various moves easier, though some people complain of having a harder time spinning on them.  I personally found them easy to spin on, and suspect it is just a matter of where on the blade the skater is accustomed to putting their weight.  I think the argument can also be made that a skater can get used to any profile with practice, but the characteristics of how a profile will make moves look on ice is not just a matter of acclimation, but determined largely by the blade profile, because the skater must adjust how they shift their weight on the blade to the particular profile they have.

Skating blades are a complex science!

[Query]

Casey:

The reason your parabolic blades don't "look" thinner anywhere is that the blade thickness differences are mostly on the order of .001 to .002 inch. You can use a very good calipers or a micrometer to accurately measure it. (That may be less than the depth of surface scratches.) And of course, we spend most of our time on one edge, so all that really changes is that the edge angle would be a little thinner (effectively marginally sharper) where the blade is thicker (at the ends on a parabolic blade) - by a possibly insignificant amount.

(A question I haven't answered is whether the entire width of the blade sinks into the ice during take-offs and landings - in which case a wider part of the blade might be very marginally more stable at those times.)

Also, your figure comes from Paramount. We can't assume they measure MK and Wilson blades accurately, especially since MK and Wilson blades vary a fair bit from the factory, so you would need to average the results from many blades. (Also, because of the imperfect way the most common rocker measurement tools work, taking 3 height measurements offset a little ways from the side of the blades, any type of side honing would make those measurements somewhat inaccurate.) There was a somewhat similar figure years ago on the Wilson website, from when MK and Wilson were two fully separate competing companies - I'm not sure whether they showed the same measurements. And I've never seen published specs from MK itself.

Those pictures are what I meant about spin rocker curvature being different from the main rocker. The Wilson website used to say that Wilson blades had two different spin rockers in different parts of the blade, as on the Pattern 99 in your figure, though that isn't consistent with what it shows for the Gold Seal.

BTW, spin rockers are often deliberately modified in radius and placement by high end sharpening pros, to meet the needs of the skater. (Most lower end sharpeners don't deliberately try to modify rocker profiles.)

Something your picture doesn't show is that many MK and Wilson blades have somewhat shorter rocker radii (are more curved) near the tails (maybe, 6') - I'm not sure if that is deliberate, or a machining error.

Side honing isn't new and revolutionary. Figure skating books were debating the merits of various forms of side honing, without clear resolution, from at least as early as the late 19th century. And all these things, and others like scalloping, have been used in fancy knife blades for a lot longer. The conclusion is clear: if you like the results you think you get from any form of side honing, you should get them, because you will be happier to know that it was done.

If what I believe is true, that the main effect is psychological, it makes a lot of sense for "Parabolic" to be printed large. That marking may be the principle thing you get from paying extra for such blades.

[Casey]

Also, your figure comes from Paramount. We can't assume they measure MK and Wilson blades accurately

Right, but it does illustrate the intentional variance that can exist pretty well.  Also as you point out, there can be manufacturing variance as well.

Those pictures are what I meant about spin rocker curvature being different from the main rocker. The Wilson website used to say that Wilson blades had two different spin rockers in different parts of the blade, as on the Pattern 99 in your figure, though that isn't consistent with what it shows for the Gold Seal.

That's interesting... I wonder why they decided to make two different spin rockers.  I imagined that with the Pattern 99 (which I assumed was pretty unique in this respect) they made the frontmost radius more sharp just to get the blade up and out of the way, while intending the flatter radius for handling spinning weight.  But this was just speculation.

BTW, spin rockers are often deliberately modified in radius and placement by high end sharpening pros, to meet the needs of the skater. (Most lower end sharpeners don't deliberately try to modify rocker profiles.)

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed that!  I need to find a good sharpener...

Something your picture doesn't show is that many MK and Wilson blades have somewhat shorter rocker radii (are more curved) near the tails (maybe, 6') - I'm not sure if that is deliberate, or a machining error.

There's a ton of things that this picture doesn't show, that the Curious George inside of me would love to see about all different blades, but like I said I like that it illustrates the fact that there can be pretty significant differences between blades.  I also have no idea what this picture is trying to convey by showing both 7' and 8' profiles on the Phantom profile.

[icedancer]

I took a closeup look at those Reidell Eclipse Dance blades today - they are very nice but don't appear to be slimline exactly - maybe halfway between a slimline dance blade like SuperDance 99 and MK Dance and a freestyle blade.

It is interesting though when you compare blades - we have also had our master sharpener pass away in the last couple of weeks - he wasn't working much there at the end - and now our sharpening experience is kind of all over the map!

Sigh.  Blades.

[Casey]

I also came across this image on another website:



The "Wilson" image here looks almost identical to the "Pattern 99" image in the Paramount one.  Who's more accurate is anyone's guess.

[Query]

Unless I'm mistaken, the second image is the one that used to be on Wilson's website, so the Wilson profile was probably the intended Wilson design - at that time. They were explaining why Wilson blades were supposed to be better than MK blades. Two spin rocker lengths were part of the reason - I'm not clear why. I found it interesting that the Wilson page disparaging MK blades stayed on-line for quite a while after the two companies, and their production factories (I wonder if they use the same assembly line) were merged into one.

Where did you find it on the web?

BTW, you can find a lot of implied disparagement about MK and Wilson on Skate Science's website. 

It is my understanding that a professor associated with the University of Delaware, which has an active research group involved with the skating, has been studying blade profiles, and has taken a lot of measurements. If you want to track them down they might be able to share some info. But some effort might be involved.

[artist007]

There is a similar chart on the web that's been there for years. 



I've sent my student's parents to it to better explain the difference between the blades.  Your chart is also a good help.

[Bill_S]

It's just like me to re-invent the wheel!

Thanks for pointing out that chart. It could have saved me a bunch of time if I had known about it earlier.