Ultima Matrix Elite vs. Matrix Legacy

[Christy]

Has anyone transitioned from Ultima Matrix Legacy to Matrix Elite? If so, was it an easy transition or are they very different blades?

I know Elite is a harder steel so lasts longer between sharpenings (which is extremely attractive so any indication about how much longer would be great) and that Legacy is Coronation Ace profile whilst Elite is Pattern 99 but that's about it.

[slcbelle]

Has anyone transitioned from Ultima Matrix Legacy to Matrix Elite? If so, was it an easy transition or are they very different blades?

I know Elite is a harder steel so lasts longer between sharpenings (which is extremely attractive so any indication about how much longer would be great) and that Legacy is Coronation Ace profile whilst Elite is Pattern 99 but that's about it.

I don't have experience but I did from Ultima Legacy to Coronation Ace and they are not the same profile.  The Legacy has an 8' foot while the CoroAce has a 7' rocker.  I do see that on Kinzie's Closet, http://www.shop.kinziescloset.com/Ultima-Figure-Skate-Blades_c39.htm that they state, "Matrix Legacy features an Aircraft Aluminum chassis which makes the Matrix super lightweight. Reduced weight means reduced fatigue and higher jumps. Available in several colors. Comparable to Wilson Coronation Ace."

HOWEVER, on their http://www.kinziescloset.com/Compare_Ice_Skate_Blades.html  page they show that the Legacy is an 8' and the CoroAce is 7'.

I switched from Legacy to CoroAce and they are totally different.  I didn't like the Legacy at all.  It was too flat for me and I found learning to spin a huge challenge.  A 7' rocker is better for me.

Since the Elite is an 8' rocker and parallel blade, like the Legacy, I wouldn't think it wouldn't be a difficult adjustment. 

Just really wanted to point out that the blade profile is different between the Legacy and the CoroAce.

(FWIW, I'm now on the MK Vision blades and love, love, love them.)   

[Christy]

Yes, I read that too, and was surprised because they claim the Legacy is the same profile as Coro Ace, yet surely the different rockers mean that's incorrect.
I'm a bit limited in blade choices because my number one criteria is longest time between sharpenings, so Matrix blades are my first choice. Then it's just a case of which blade, and whilst I'm happy in the Legacy if I can increase the sharpening time by getting the Elite (440 steel as oppose to 420) and not suffer too much in the transition it may just be worth the extra $$.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Has anyone transitioned from Ultima Matrix Legacy to Matrix Elite? If so, was it an easy transition or are they very different blades?

I know Elite is a harder steel so lasts longer between sharpenings (which is extremely attractive so any indication about how much longer would be great) and that Legacy is Coronation Ace profile whilst Elite is Pattern 99 but that's about it.

I've never skated on legacy blades but, I'm currently on the matrix elite blades and they are just wonderful!  YOLO go for it!!

[Loops]

Matrix Legacy features an Aircraft Aluminum chassis which makes the Matrix super lightweight. Reduced weight means reduced fatigue and higher jumps. Available in several colors. Comparable to Wilson Coronation Ace."

"Comparable" does not mean "identical to".  I always read this more in terms of the spin rocker profile than the overall rocker, and to mean that it's for the same level skater.  Since people by and large know what a CorAce is, it helps them categorize the Legacy. 

[slcbelle]

"Comparable" does not mean "identical to".  I always read this more in terms of the spin rocker profile than the overall rocker, and to mean that it's for the same level skater.  Since people by and large know what a CorAce is, it helps them categorize the Legacy.

As I mentioned above, I went from the Legacy to the CoroAce and they are completely different in terms of spin rocker.  I couldn't spin for anything on my Legacy as evidenced by my wretched Pre-Bronze test video.  On the CoroAce, I found the sweet spot immediately.  I can attest that they are most definitely not comparable.

[Loops]

As I mentioned above, I went from the Legacy to the CoroAce and they are completely different in terms of spin rocker.  I couldn't spin for anything on my Legacy as evidenced by my wretched Pre-Bronze test video.  On the CoroAce, I found the sweet spot immediately.  I can attest that they are most definitely not comparable.

Sounds like!  Guess they're using a very looooooooose definition of "comparable"......

[slcbelle]

Sounds like!  Guess they're using a very looooooooose definition of "comparable"......

Something like, "If it looks like a blade, and skates like a blade, it must be a blade."?   

[Loops]

Something like, "If it looks like a blade, and skates like a blade, it must be a blade."?   

Hey, whatever works right?! 

Yours is a good argument though for publishing a bit more information about the profiles and how they differ.  Until I followed a link Nate sent in some other post, I had no idea that the Wilson blades had a 3 point spin rocker, while the MK's only had 2.  Incidentally, that info was on the Paramount site, but didn't discuss the beginnier/intermediate level blades like CorAce, Vision and Prof.  I know that stuff is proprietary, but given that we can't really try-before-we-buy, educating us might make us overall happier customers......right?

[Christy]

I wonder if they mean 'for skaters of this level' instead of 'the profile of this blade is that same as', although I may just be being kind!

I did read that Ultima blades have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/ContentPage.aspx?SitePageId=kMFTAgqheC3VGuEcL3IbkA1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E but then the small print says only if the replacement blade is a different brand 
so, my plan to try the Elite then go back to Legacy if it didn't work is no more 

[slcbelle]

I wonder if they mean 'for skaters of this level' instead of 'the profile of this blade is that same as', although I may just be being kind!

I did read that Ultima blades have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/ContentPage.aspx?SitePageId=kMFTAgqheC3VGuEcL3IbkA1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E but then the small print says only if the replacement blade is a different brand 
so, my plan to try the Elite then go back to Legacy if it didn't work is no more 

Do you have a skating friend who has approximately the same boot size that skates an Elite blade?   One of my friends tried on my boots to skate on my Vision blades before deciding to buy them herself.  It's one way to test them out if you have that opportunity.  Putting holes and then filling them in your boots if you don't like the blade can be tricky.  Especially if the holes are very close to what you have now.

[Query]

Sounds like!  Guess they're using a very looooooooose definition of "comparable"......

"Comparable" has a very specific meaning in business. It means that a business wishes to sell their product to customers who might otherwise buy or who have previously bought the "comparable" product.

Like a modern Honda Accord and a vintage Rolls Royce Silver Shadow.

[Neverdull44]

I am on 2 weeks new Matrix Elite, and am spinning pretty good on them.  My sit and scratch are actually alot better.  My backspin is sometimes great and sometimes not.  Today, i got my camel spin the first time.   I am still learning the rocker.   

I think my Matrix Elite are going to be great blades.   But, I was coming from 20 year old, totally worn out MK Professionals.

[Christy]

Do you have a skating friend who has approximately the same boot size that skates an Elite blade?   One of my friends tried on my boots to skate on my Vision blades before deciding to buy them herself.  It's one way to test them out if you have that opportunity.  Putting holes and then filling them in your boots if you don't like the blade can be tricky.  Especially if the holes are very close to what you have now.

Unfortunately not - no one else uses the matrix blades because they can't get them sharpened locally :-(

[Loops]

Do you have to have the matrix format to try out the Elites?  Someone might be skating on the regular format so you can at least test the profile....

[Christy]

Do you have to have the matrix format to try out the Elites?  Someone might be skating on the regular format so you can at least test the profile....

Good point. I'll ask around although it's unlikely - the local store is big on GAM boots and blades (they've now stopped stocking Jackson completely).

[Neverdull44]

The good news is that they only have to be sharpened about every six months . . .

[Loops]

Good point. I'll ask around although it's unlikely - the local store is big on GAM boots and blades (they've now stopped stocking Jackson completely).

Does GAM still make blades?  I thought that when Jackson bought them, they incorporated the GAM blades into the Ultimas.  I may very well be wrong though, but when you go to the GAM website, the blades are all Ultimas.  You might be in luck!

[Christy]

I'm not sure if GAM blades are still manufactured - as you say there is very limited information about them, but the local store still has quite a number of different options. Maybe they're old stock?

[Query]

I'm pretty sure GAM doesn't sell their own line of blades anymore. But I think I was told that Riedel Eclipse took over their manufacturing line  - or was that Ultima?

There may still be some previously manufactured blades available.

[Bercana]

As others have mentioned, there's more to this "comparable" thing that 7 vs 8 foot rocker. That only refers to the main portion of the blade. All blades are comprised of more than one rocker. The Pattern 99 actually has three different rockers. The first inch of so behind the pick is a 1 foot rocker followed by a 27" rocker for the next couple inches and then 8 foot from there to the tail. Even though Coronation Ace is 7 foot and the Legacy is 8 foot... you don't spin and jump on that part of the blade. The main portion of the blade (the part that is a 7 or 8 foot rocker) typically starts a little (or a lot) behind the spinning sweet spot. Basically there's a spin rocker and a stroke rocker.

My guess is that they call it comparable because of other features. The pick for instance looks 100% identical as does the stanchion height. The spin rocker (the first 2-3 inches behind the drag pick) may also be very similar although that's very hard to tell just by looking at them. This profile diagram I found online actually show the Coronation Ace as being identical to the Pattern 99?! And it say it's 8 foot?! So who knows. Maybe the Coronation Ace is essentially a Pattern 99 profile with a Gold Seal style pick (cross-milled + smaller drag pick than a pat99) and stanchion height?

I think there are three basic profiles out there that everyone copies... Pattern 99 (12" + 27" + 8'), Gold Seal (12" + 8') and Phantom (17" + 7')

[Neverdull44]

I have the Elites.  Before them, I had 20 year old MK Professionals that had very little, if any, rocker to them.  I think they measured a 20 rocker (lol), because they were that flat!     I love my Elites!    I go about 100 hours between sharpenings.   I do follow the manufacturer's recommendation and only sharpen with the wheel they recommend (which is a 5 hour round trip drive).     It takes very little push for me to zoom to full speed with the Elites.   These blades run fast on the ice.   I've made some bad mistakes on the ice, but these blades catch me and saved my butt a few times.   Yesterday, I was practicing my Silver MIF, and somehow decided to do a forward three turn on my heel.  When I did turn, I thought for a second I was going down, but then the edge just gripped right in and I was saved.   They are "louder" blades, and you will hear them biting into the ice more.   But, I don't mind it because my cross rolls & power pulls sound awesome. 

I didn't have trouble spinning in them (7' Professionals . . but Worn . . . to the upgraded 8'), but I am a good spinner.  I think my spinning has improved alot in these blades.  I've thrown down some awesome back spins, camel spins, and sit spins in them.

I had the money back guarantee, but it wasn't needed.  Oh, I have them sharpened to a 1/2" hollow.

[Loops]

I think there are three basic profiles out there that everyone copies... Pattern 99 (12" + 27" + 8'), Gold Seal (12" + 8') and Phantom (17" + 7')

Where did you find that diagram?  In addition to what you mentioned about CorAce vs the P99, the Prof is shown as identical in profile to the Gold Seal.  CorAce and Profs are both advertised as having a 7' radius, and always have been as far back as my memory goes (to the 80's).  If it is correct, at least for the spin rocker portion, that is very interesting.  But I am skeptical because of the 8' label on the CorAce and Prof....

Neverdull- glad you're liking the Elites.  I'm considering the supremes for my next blade (basically because of the cross cut picks).  Do the non Matrix versions also come with a rec for a special wheel?  Where I am that ain't gonna be happening.....

And I am TOTALLY with you on the blade noise- When I get a nice rip (Vision Synchros) it makes me profoundly happy.