wrong fit or do I just need to break it in?

[sampaguita]

How do you know if you were mis-sized, or if you just need to break the boots in?

I got my new Jackson Freestyles to replace my old Jackson Freestyles, but I went down from a 5C to a 4.5B. I feel pressure on the bony protrusion on the ball of the foot (where bunions form), but the toes don't curl on top of each other. There's also some pressure above the instep on my right foot. I've already had the skates heat-molded, and have been on the ice for a total of maybe 30 minutes. I've also tried lacing less tightly than I did before in my old skates, but just enough to keep the foot in place. It doesn't matter if I'm sitting down or standing or skating: the pressure points stay there.

I fitted the 4.5B in a pro shop and I don't remember any of these pressure points, so I'm wondering what went wrong...

[jlspink22]

Maybe you are actually a split width foot? My daughter had this problem with hers as well, and they put them on a stretcher and it seemed to help. Although it may not last and you'd have to repeat the process until they break in. I do the loose, tight (over instep), loose (well not loose but not really tight) at the top lacing method and that also helped. My daughter has a love hate relationship with the skates (right stiffness, but not the best fit at the ankles) so we are going a different route next time.

[Matsumoto]

Are the pressure points on one foot only?  If so, you may be like me where one foot is considerably larger/wider than the other.  If you have a pro shop nearby you could try punching out the foot ball area.  Since the Freestyles are heat-moldable, the punching should hold it's shape over time.

Best of luck!

[AgnesNitt]

If your forefoot is wider that the boot there's a last ditch remedy you can try.
http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2013/08/surgical-intervention-on-figure-skating.html
I skated in these until the heels went out and just got a pair of customs with narrow heel and wide forefeet. They were almost the cost of a mortgage payment in the 80's. Trust me cutting the boot is a lot cheaper than that and won't hurt the boot.

[sampaguita]

Thanks everyone. I think I probably should have been in a split width, but the boots are becoming more wearable now after wearing them in the house. We don't have a stretcher in the pro shop, so I might have to DIY the stretching if it's needed

AgnesNitt -- ouch. That's one painful surgery. Thanks for sharing still!

[amy1984]

Heat gun works if you don't have a pro shop around.  Heat up the skates, put them on, tie them tight, and don't take them off till they've cooled down.  Obviously be careful.  I've done it and it worked fine.

Thanks everyone. I think I probably should have been in a split width, but the boots are becoming more wearable now after wearing them in the house. We don't have a stretcher in the pro shop, so I might have to DIY the stretching if it's needed

AgnesNitt -- ouch. That's one painful surgery. Thanks for sharing still!

[DressmakingMomma]

Something I found helped to give a little more width in the toe area when using a heat gun is to have somebody press and massage from the top of the toes/lace area down to the side so that you are opening up the toe area. Continue pushing and sort of massaging downwards until they cool off. It would be hard to do it by yourself while wearing them, so having an extra set of hands is helpful.

[sampaguita]

amy1984 and DressmakingMomma -- thanks! Does the heat gun method produce different results from oven-type heat molding?

[DressmakingMomma]

With dd's skates, we were trying to make them work until her new split width boots came in. They were heated in the oven and stretched at the pro shop but it didn't give her enough room so we found that using a craft heat gun to heat them up, massage the toe area open, let them cool off and then relace them right before she went on the ice gave her some relief. Heating up boots repeatedly will break them down faster and it wouldn't be recommended unless it was a last ditch effort. We were trying to get by for 6-8 weeks.

Her next pair of boots were split width and heat molded and punched in problem areas at the pro shop so they were fine initially. As she grew a bit and needed more room in the toes we did the same thing at home a few times and it seemed to help. Those were Jackson Premieres and when I would push from the top down I could see them getting wider at the toes.

The heat gun I used was purchased at a craft store and is less powerful then one you would find at the hardware store. I felt safer that way - like I would be less likely to ruin the boots. It probably took longer to heat up the area of the boot that we were working on but I was okay with that. Our pro shop guy said a surprising number of people come in with ruined boots because they were trying to heat mold them at home. I think the good thing about using a heat gun verses an oven is that you are in control of how hot the boots are getting and you're only heating up the areas you need to. It's my understanding that each time you heat them up you are breaking them down just a bit.

[sampaguita]

I see. Thanks everyone for your replies!

[amy1984]

I got a cheap heat gun at the hardware store.  Certainly not super powerful.  I've had mine done in an over and I think the advantage of a heat gun is that you can target painful areas.  I totally agree with pressing on the top of the toe box - that can help.  But as others have said, it's important to not re-heat the skates too often or they will break down quickly.  The heat gun really helped with the arches of my skates.  I've come to the realization that the perfect fit usually takes a bit of manipulation

[AgnesNitt]

I got a cheap heat gun at the hardware store.  Certainly not super powerful.  I've had mine done in an over and I think the advantage of a heat gun is that you can target painful areas.  I totally agree with pressing on the top of the toe box - that can help.  But as others have said, it's important to not re-heat the skates too often or they will break down quickly.  The heat gun really helped with the arches of my skates.  I've come to the realization that the perfect fit usually takes a bit of manipulation

I'm going through this with my new boots. My philosophy is "Real Skaters make their boots fit." I can do everything except blade adjustments. Here's what I've done SO FAR:

Since the big toes were hurting (bumped up against the top of the toe box),  I tore out the leather insoles so that the stitching of the inside sole of the boot was exposed. I replaced the manufacturer's insoles with yellow superfeet insoles. I've cut out the big toes of my superfeet insoles and padded under them with cheap foam insoles with the big toe cut out. This means my big toes are resting on the base sole but the rest of my feet are on double insoles and pushed up into the curve of the boot. I think this will give me enough space in the toe box so there's no pressing on the toes.And even though the right boot is too wide I'm hoping the extra padding works to push the foot up, without making my big toe scrunch. So far this is working.

To get my heels to stay at the back in the boots, I tighten the laces while wearing baseball gloves for grip (lace hooks don't work with these laces). So far so good.

[aussieskater]

I think this will give me enough space in the toe box so there's no pressing on the toes.And even though the right boot is too wide I'm hoping the extra padding works to push the foot up, without making my big toe scrunch.

Agnes I thought you got custom Harlicks?  Don't custom fit better than that?  I know that even custom can't be "just right" straight out of the box, but the surgery you're having to do seems quite significant.

[AgnesNitt]

Agnes I thought you got custom Harlicks?  Don't custom fit better than that?  I know that even custom can't be "just right" straight out of the box, but the surgery you're having to do seems quite significant.

Yep, left boot fits almost perfectly. Dream boot--except for the toe. And the toe thing is just something I can fix by cutting up the insoles.

Right boot is too wide, even in the heel. The heel is annoying. I've NEVER been able to get a boot to fit in the right heel. I'm working on different tying routines now, which is improving the fit. Really close now. I don't think I'll need a gel tube after all.

I could have the right boot rebuilt, but I'll be frank, I'd just end up with a boot that didn't fit in different ways. If I can't get the right boot to fit on my own, I'll send it back to Harlicks. I've already let my fitter know it's not a great fit and he offered to have it rebuilt or have new boots built. However, at this point, I'm pretty sure I can fix stuff.

On the good side, the forefeet fit great, the extra wide tongue is great, and the ankle notches are fine, and the stiffness is okay.

[DressmakingMomma]

I've been reading your posts AgnesNitt, and they are making me so nervous! We are anxiously awaiting our dd's custom harlicks which should be in any day now. Her feet are really hard to fit as well, we actually ordered split width competitors but Harlick called and said custom was the only way to fit her problem feet (not in those exact words  ). She has only been skating for two years, but has had so much trouble with skates that it is amazing she hasn't quit! I hope you can get yours worked out, and I really hope that my dd's fit from the beginning. She has been off the ice since May waiting for skates and if these don't work I don't know what we'll do. Sorry to hijack.

[AgnesNitt]

As my mother told me: Don't borrow trouble.

Wait until they come in and then see if they work out. 

Also, Harlicks are hard for me to tie. I found the laces more slick than my Jacksons. It's an easy fix. Get a cheap pair of gloves with leather fingers or grippy fingers (like riding gloves, or fancy gardening gloves, or golf gloves) cut off the tip of the first finger and then tie the boots with those. MUCH better than lace pullers. I had to cut the tip of the glove finger so I can sort through the laces while they're loose so I can pick the next lace to pull on, then use the middle and fourth fingers as the tuggers.
I would say, that once I get the right lacing routine, the right heel will settle in.

Also, one of my boots had a slightly warped sole. This is a common manufacturing defect that's an easy fix by shimming the blade. Make sure your fitter checks for that and fixes it if he finds it. I'm going to write a blog post on this because it's so common. And the issue is, that when a boot has a slightly warped sole and the blade isn't shimmed YOU FEEL IT ON THE OPPOSITE SIDE! It was totally weird. Anyway, probably not worth sending the boot back for a rebuild for it; recognizing it is the important part, then shimming it.

I have to say, the Harlicks recommendation that I need an extra wide tongue was wonderful, and the boot stiffness is perfect. Just wanted to add, Harlicks seemed to have put some pronation correction in the boots and that is nice.

I'm sorry that my posts spook you. I'm an engineer by trade and I LIKE being able to fix things and rambling on about it. Also, I don't know how old your daughter is, but there's lots of things you can fix yourself without a trip to the fitter (like trimming the insoles, or making your own stretcher, or figuring out different ways to tie the boots).  If you're able to think through the problem, there's an answer to many boot fitting issues in your own hands.

[sarahspins]

I've been reading your posts AgnesNitt, and they are making me so nervous!

Don't be nervous!  Harlick will fix any fit issues with customs - yes, you are out some time in that scenario, but they will strive to make it right

That said, I've had no issues with my customs.. I heat molded them when I got them and then I slowly broke them in on the ice over about two weeks, and while I was initially worried my left boot was a little too loose at the toes, but it was more of a "feels weird" issue than a true fit issue - spinning, jumping, and MITF have all been just fine, and as I've broken the boots in, the feel has snugged up a bit and it doesn't feel as weird any more.

[DressmakingMomma]

Thanks, I'll relax. We've had skate trouble from the start and I'm really hoping the harlicks solve the problem so my dd can just concentrate on her skating. Sorry Sampaguita for the hijack. Have you tried the heat gun yet to make some room in the toe box? Just wondering if it helped.

[sampaguita]

Hi Dressmaking Momma! Turns out the heat gun is unnecessary -- all I needed were extra-thin stockings. The boots fit better now at the toe, but the heel fit was better when I was wearing thicker stockings. I suppose I really do have a split-width foot, but at least these boots fit me better than the first pair!

[jlspink22]

Hi Dressmaking Momma! Turns out the heat gun is unnecessary -- all I needed were extra-thin stockings. The boots fit better now at the toe, but the heel fit was better when I was wearing thicker stockings. I suppose I really do have a split-width foot, but at least these boots fit me better than the first pair!

Try some gel sleeves (silipos for example). They work for my daughter to keep the ankle in place. You can turn them with the gel out for even better grip.