Do I really need custom boots?

[sampaguita]

I've been on a skating hiatus...it's been a while since I've been here, but it's great to be back!

My coach got me fitted for SP-Teris because my current boots are too large (in both length and width). My impression is that SP-Teris are customs -- they make the boots to your specifications.

My coach wanted a dance Pro Teri boot with a Coronation Dance blade and I wanted a lightweight sole -- I am excited about the combination, but not so about the price. So I'm wondering if customs are really necessary for me. I fit a B ball and an A heel in SP-Teris. Arch is normal, although the fitter mentioned that the ball of my feet are a bit rounded. Does that qualify as a truly "custom" boot?

Another option for me is to replace my Jackson Freestyles with another Jackson pair (either Freestyle with Mirage or Finesse with Finesse blade) that's smaller and narrower. I now have the correct size for my Jackson (the fitter was from another pro shop), although I have to admit the arch isn't very comfortable. But with the price difference...the Jackson option is very very tempting. Or does it make sense to just save up for the custom SP-Teris?

Thanks in advance for your inputs!

[Loops]

Nice to see you back!!!!

I wish I had the answer for you.  People do seem to loooooove their SP-Teris.  But money is always, always a factor (except for a lucky few).  I don't know about their dance models, but their free models are rock solid and could last you a good long time.  So, it might be 1 pair SP-Teris vs 2 pair Jackson.  ??

Fwiw- SP does make stock boots, what would happen if you did one of those with the split/width modification???

There's a new thread on here, by tropicalskater where people are sharing their boot/blades.  There are several people who've said they wear SP-Teris, maybe talk to them directly?

Good luck making this decision!!!

[sarahspins]

I think it can be worth it if you have had difficulty with fit (which I seem to recall that up to this point, you have).   However, that said, being fit and ordering custom skates is never a guarantee that they WILL be better than a stock boot, but I think it does increase the odds of a good fit out of the box.  With a better fit the boots should also last you much longer as well, which may be a consideration for offsetting the additional cost - boots that are too long and too wide do tend to break down prematurely, which obviously shortens their useful life.

Interestingly, when I ordered my Harlicks, the cost difference between my custom pair (with extra options) and the stock pair fitting before me (also with extra options) was less than $100 - I was kind of surprised because I figured the stock boot price would end up being lower, but it wasn't significantly so. 

[alejeather]

I have what are considered stock SP-Teris, but with three modifications: split width, insole allowance, and wax finish. The cost did end up coming pretty close to the base custom cost, but I don't know what the custom cost structure is. It's possible that the custom cost is just the starting point, and those modifications would still have been additional on top of that. I think stock boot to them doesn't mean it's a boot they have sitting around ready to ship, but anything that they can make with a stock last (which includes combination widths). It seems most of their boots are made to order.

[sarahspins]

It's possible that the custom cost is just the starting point, and those modifications would still have been additional on top of that.

Most likely - I think all of the major boot makers moved away from "all inclusive" pricing a couple of years ago - ot one point you could order a custom boot and pretty much anything was included except for custom suede colors or decorations (like cut outs or embroidery, which always incurred a small fee).  Now you pay a base rate for the boot, which includes specific options (custom sizing being one specific example - there's no extra charge for a split width on customs, and things like extra padding, how stiff you want the boots, etc is usually included) but you pay extra for other options like insoles, flex notches, padded collars, custom colors, etc.

[JSM]

SP-Teri does a split width stock boot as long as there is a one width difference. - there is, of course, an extra charge (for my recent purchase it was $35).  If you are an A heel B ball, that is a doable option.  If you were an A heel with a C or D ball, that does require a custom boot.

Even with a few modifications, the difference between my stock SP Teris and a custom option was over $150.  I know the stock SP Teri boots fit me - I've been wearing them for many years and they agree with my feet - so I didn't want to risk a custom boot (not to mention it was much cheaper!).  Sometimes, quite frankly, even customs aren't perfect.  I've heard local skaters complain about their custom boots from multiple manufacturers (Klingbeil, Ridell, SP-Teri, etc), though others have boots from the same companies that fit perfectly.  Boot buying can be a real shot in the dark sometimes!

Arch problems can sometimes be solved with different insoles, sometimes not.  Have you tried different insoles in your current Jackson boots?

[sampaguita]

The arch in the current Jackson boots aren't much of a problem, but in the smaller boot that I tried on, I think the arch will be a problem. The fitter at that pro shop said I could fix that with some sort of arch insert, but we'll see.

Is one width difference between heel and ball typical? I recall that that's the way Jacksons are built, but not sure if that's standard in *all* manufacturers, including SP-Teris. I'm pretty sure that the boots that my coach wanted are gonna be custom boots, because I was asked for a deposit for them to start working on the boots, but I don't know if they're custom because of the width or because of other options, like the lightweight sole.

[davincisop]

I use yellow superfeet inserts on top of the footbed inserts that Jackson uses in my Jackson skates. They're great for arch support and I have no more arch pain while skating.

[Christy]

If you've had problems with getting skates which fit because you're feet aren't "normal" and don't fit the standard for one of the major manufacturers, then customs would probably help, however I'd check what the fitter is recommending you order first, and if they are suggesting customs ask why.

[icedancer]

I'm wondering why your coach is recommending the SP Dance Boot?

[JSM]

The arch in the current Jackson boots aren't much of a problem, but in the smaller boot that I tried on, I think the arch will be a problem. The fitter at that pro shop said I could fix that with some sort of arch insert, but we'll see.

Is one width difference between heel and ball typical? I recall that that's the way Jacksons are built, but not sure if that's standard in *all* manufacturers, including SP-Teris. I'm pretty sure that the boots that my coach wanted are gonna be custom boots, because I was asked for a deposit for them to start working on the boots, but I don't know if they're custom because of the width or because of other options, like the lightweight sole.

I agree with Christy above - if your feet are difficult to fit you may need customs. 

However - my last boots that I ordered a couple months ago included both a split width AND a lightweight sole - they were both options on a stock boot that were available for an extra charge.  So I know first hand it's not necessary for a custom if those are the only differences you are looking for.  Most of their boots are made to order, they don't keep a large stock around.

I love the boots, btw. 

[alejeather]

Is one width difference between heel and ball typical? I recall that that's the way Jacksons are built, but not sure if that's standard in *all* manufacturers, including SP-Teris.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. No boot manufacturer sells a boot by default that has a different width marking for the heel than the ball, but the standard width of the heel with respect to the ball in a stock boot is probably narrower in some brands than others, but it would still be considered the standard width. That's just the shape of that brand's last.

I'm pretty sure that the boots that my coach wanted are gonna be custom boots, because I was asked for a deposit for them to start working on the boots, but I don't know if they're custom because of the width or because of other options, like the lightweight sole.

I mentioned earlier that I had a stock boot with modifications. I had to make a deposit before they began work on the boots.

[ChristyRN]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. No boot manufacturer sells a boot by default that has a different width marking for the heel than the ball, but the standard width of the heel with respect to the ball in a stock boot is probably narrower in some brands than others, but it would still be considered the standard width. That's just the shape of that brand's last.

I've been told that Jackson boots are a size narrower in the heel than in the ball. So if you're wearing a B width, the heel is really an A.

[sampaguita]

Thanks everyone for your comments. I'm aware of what "stock" is for Riedell and Jackson, companies that make a lot of stock boots, but not so much about custom boot manufacturers.

icedancer: My coach prefers SP-Teri's. He knows my current boots are not right for me, so he thought I might need customs.

[nicklaszlo]

General question:  Do any boot manufacturers actually keep "stock" boots in stock?  Based on threads here and personal experience, it seems like everyone has to wait for their boots to be made even if they're stock.

[FigureSpins]

General question:  Do any boot manufacturers actually keep "stock" boots in stock?  Based on threads here and personal experience, it seems like everyone has to wait for their boots to be made even if they're stock.

That's because retailers no longer carry a wide inventory in stock - it is too expensive for them to maintain inventory.  white skates yellow from being in storage for long amounts of time, which makes them unsaleable.  Smart pro shops stock the most-popular sizes but often don't worry about widths.  All other sizes either compromise on stock (foolish) or order.

It also explains why so many adults end up mis-sized since they can't try on due to limited stock.  They settle for whats in stock or order and Wait. 

I'm convinced that Reidell's boot "last" has changed and their measuring sticks are no longer accurate.  'Nuff said

Add to it the "just in time inventory" models that mfgs and distributors use, which sometimes means out of stock conditions for skaters that need to order.  Overseas manufacturing can cause this as well, if orders aren't placed or fulfilled on time.  My dd needed new boots in an adult size.  The distributors were out of stock and Jackson said the wait would be six months!  We ended up culling boots from a stock set because the skates were needed ASAP.

This lack of inventory for try ons is a bad business model for pro shops - it's the primary strength they can have over online retailers but the carrying cost is ridiculous.  Mfgs should brainstorm and come up with a compromise.

[fsk8r]

That's because retailers no longer carry a wide inventory in stock - it is too expensive for them to maintain inventory.  white skates yellow from being in storage for long amounts of time, which makes them unsaleable.  Smart pro shops stock the most-popular sizes but often don't worry about widths.  All other sizes either compromise on stock (foolish) or order.

It also explains why so many adults end up mis-sized since they can't try on due to limited stock.  They settle for whats in stock or order and Wait. 

I'm convinced that Reidell's boot "last" has changed and their measuring sticks are no longer accurate.  'Nuff said

Add to it the "just in time inventory" models that mfgs and distributors use, which sometimes means out of stock conditions for skaters that need to order.  Overseas manufacturing can cause this as well, if orders aren't placed or fulfilled on time.  My dd needed new boots in an adult size.  The distributors were out of stock and Jackson said the wait would be six months!  We ended up culling boots from a stock set because the skates were needed ASAP.

This lack of inventory for try ons is a bad business model for pro shops - it's the primary strength they can have over online retailers but the carrying cost is ridiculous.  Mfgs should brainstorm and come up with a compromise.

It would be good if the shops could be provided with sample boots of the different sizes. OK they're not going to have the right stiffness, but I want to know whether my feet fit in the shape of the boot and then I can select my stiffness.
I'm quite happy to wait for my boots to be ordered to fit my specifications, but I wouldn't buy any other shoes without trying them on and making sure they were a good fit first, and skates are WAY more expensive than I pay for anything else which goes on my feet.

[dak_rbb]

I'm not sure of the price of customs, but my daughter has been getting SP-Teris for a few years now and always gets a double split width (C ball, A heel). I can't remember the exact charge for the split width, but it wasn't that much--maybe $50/$60 or so.  Good luck with the skate purchase.  I hate buying skates--wish we could test drive them!

[Query]

I have a stock reply: If at all possible, try boots of as many types and brands as possible, at all local stores, before going the custom route. One of them might happen to fit you very well, perhaps better than a custom boot.

[icedancer]

icedancer: My coach prefers SP-Teri's. He knows my current boots are not right for me, so he thought I might need customs.

Yeah, but the SP-Teri Dance boot is not a custom boot - I have them - got the split width (and actually split length as well) for like $50-$60 more than the stock version - so just mainly wondering why the dance boot?

[sampaguita]

Yeah, but the SP-Teri Dance boot is not a custom boot - I have them - got the split width (and actually split length as well) for like $50-$60 more than the stock version - so just mainly wondering why the dance boot?

Hmmm I never really asked him why. Probably because he's thinking I'm better off doing dance in the long run, so I might as well get a boot that will make it easier for me to point my toe.

By split width, do you mean something like an A-heel and B-ball? I've honestly never heard of boots where the heel and the ball are the same width. I checked the SP-Teri quote, and there was an extra charge for this "combination width" thing, which I thought was weird -- I know for a fact that Jackson stock boots have one width difference between ball and heel.

[Nate]

I think it can be worth it if you have had difficulty with fit (which I seem to recall that up to this point, you have).   However, that said, being fit and ordering custom skates is never a guarantee that they WILL be better than a stock boot, but I think it does increase the odds of a good fit out of the box.  With a better fit the boots should also last you much longer as well, which may be a consideration for offsetting the additional cost - boots that are too long and too wide do tend to break down prematurely, which obviously shortens their useful life.

Interestingly, when I ordered my Harlicks, the cost difference between my custom pair (with extra options) and the stock pair fitting before me (also with extra options) was less than $100 - I was kind of surprised because I figured the stock boot price would end up being lower, but it wasn't significantly so.

My Kings are too wide (C when I need A width) and the only thing breaking down prematurely, is my body.

Lol

Customs are significantly more expensive than a stock boot. It can be a $200+ difference in some cases, depending on the options you choose vs the stock model you'd otherwise get. And IIRC, they are not returnable at all.

They also take forever to come in which may be a factor if your current skates are killing you but you don't want to stop skating for 6-10 weeks while you wait for new skates (though I guess at that point the skipped ice time and lessons would literally pay for the skates, Lol).

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk.

[CaraSkates]

I'm convinced that Reidell's boot "last" has changed and their measuring sticks are no longer accurate.  'Nuff said

I'm also convinced of this - well the "last" changing part. I've been in Riedell skates since I started skating 10 years ago. I had two pairs of 7.5 B/A Silver Stars that I loved, next pair I needed a stiffer boot. Got fitted for the 2010LS and measured into an 8. I mentioned to my skate guy I'd been happily wearing a 7.5 for 3.5 years and he said it wasn't me, it was the skates. He went back over my measurements from the previous two fittings and said, nope, foot stayed the same. I'm now on my 3rd pair of 8 B/A 2010s and in love with them - and I'm sure that if I was wearing a too big skate for what has now been 5 years, I would have noticed.

Perhaps not everyone updated their measurement charts? I got fitted for the 2010s summer of 2009.

[Loops]

By split width, do you mean something like an A-heel and B-ball? I've honestly never heard of boots where the heel and the ball are the same width. I checked the SP-Teri quote, and there was an extra charge for this "combination width" thing, which I thought was weird -- I know for a fact that Jackson stock boots have one width difference between ball and heel.

I think I understand what what you mean here.   I've read those boot fit descriptions recently, too.  My interpretation, is that the boot last itself is designed with the understanding that many (most?) people have a heel that would fit a narrower-width boot than the ball of the foot would require.  So the different brands like Jackson and GAM say something to the effect of "Narrower heel" in their fit descriptions.  BUT that doesn't mean that they're automatically split width.  If you have an even narrower heel than the last is designed for (like it seems quite a few people do), then you need to order the heel from a narrower last mixed with the ball from a wider last.  That would be the actual "split width."

As to Nate's experience with Klingbiel......  I'm not a custom skate wearer, BUT  I think recent Klingbiel is a special case.  Everything I've heard from people on these forums and people I skated with in the past, is that a bootmaker will do what it takes to get things right- down to tossing out the boots and starting fresh.  A case in point is the recent thread by JohnAllocca regarding his experience with Riedell.  His fitter was incompetent sounds like, but Riedell appears to have been very easy to work with and quite willing to accomodate his needs.  I've heard similar stories out of SPTeri and Harlick.  And historically out of Klingbiel.  But if Nate bought those during the ownership change/debacle it might be that he fell into that hole with the sudden and catastrophic decline in their customer service.  And that totally sucks.  While I personally would consider customs from any other bootmaker (Riedell and Jackson included), I will never own the oft dreamt of Klingbiels.  I've heard of a spin off company started by the former Klingbeil team, but can't find any info on that yet- I would definitely consider their boots.

People can and should correct me if I'm misinterpreting though.

[sarahspins]

Klingbeil's spin-off company is Avanta skating boots in TN... not sure they are really up and running yet, but what I've seen looks promising.

I just got my Custom Harlicks and I can tell I will be happy with them - amazingly good fit right out of the box, I am waterproofing them and should get my blades mounted tonight so hopefully I can try them out tomorrow.