Good post on "On Thin Ice"

[jbruced]

There is a good post by the writer of the blog "On Thin Ice" regarding checking rotation. I think he very accurately describes the difficulty that some adult skaters may have in understanding what some of the instructions are that come from coaches and instructors. I have no doubt that the coaches/instructors know what they mean but sometimes with older learners the information isn't being transferred from the coach to the student. Having been an instructor in other activities, I would ask skating coaches and instructors to read the blog writers post titled "Check please" and think how you present such instructions to your students. Is the information getting through to your students? As an older person trying to learn ice skating I share his frustration with understanding what some of the instructions mean.

Mod note: topic moved.

[Query]

What is the web page link to the "On Thin Ice" blog?

Thanks.

[jbruced]

agingskater.blogspot.com

[Query]

Not all instructors/coaches teach things the same way. Sometimes you have to try many coaches to find one that explains things the way you want.

E.g., I finally found a coach who could explain things in the broken down analytical physicsy way I  wanted, and can demo too. She can also deal better than the others with my lack of flexibility. She can't make me a great skater, but she helped a little with some things.

If you are seek info on checking turns, spins or jumps, try asking on the on-ice training forum. Expect diverse answers and methods from various people.

[lutefisk]

There is a good post by the writer of the blog "On Thin Ice" regarding checking rotation. I think he very accurately describes the difficulty that some adult skaters may have in understanding what some of the instructions are that come from coaches and instructors. I have no doubt that the coaches/instructors know what they mean but sometimes with older learners the information isn't being transferred from the coach to the student. Having been an instructor in other activities, I would ask skating coaches and instructors to read the blog writers post titled "Check please" and think how you present such instructions to your students. Is the information getting through to your students? As an older person trying to learn ice skating I share his frustration with understanding what some of the instructions mean.

Well jbruced, I'm just a boy from the country so it doesn't take much to confuse me, but gosh, now not only am I confused but I find myself blushing as well.  Thanks for tip o'the cap for my blogspot!  Hopefully I'm not contributing to the confusion of others by attempting to straighten out my own fuzzy logic while "talking out loud" to myself.  Sometimes confusion is contagious...

Lutefisk (aka: your old diarist)

[jbruced]

Lutefisk,

No need to blush, you are a good writer and express things well. I've been on both sides of the teaching/learning issue and have been frustrated in my efforts to get information across to some students as well as being frustrated trying to understand what a teacher or instructor is trying to get across to me. In my opinion, your topic is excellent food for thought by both students and instructors.

Confusion, in a learning environment, is the process of moving from a lack of understanding to full understanding. jbruced

[Clarice]

Interesting topic.  As a teacher and as a student, I think there's also something to be said for the concept of readiness.  Sometimes a student simply isn't ready to learn something, no matter how well it is being explained.  In my own skating, I know my coach told me certain things over and over, but it was as if I couldn't hear them until I was "ready".  Then, one day, things would just click, I would express understanding, and she would look at me in amazement, saying "but I have been saying that to you every week for 6 months". 

In my own teaching, as a clarinet teacher, I have done the same - taught the same concept over and over, saying the same thing different ways (the best teachers have many ways of explaining the same thing), getting no immediate results, but knowing I was preparing the ground for eventual understanding.  Sometimes the student would go off to a camp or workshop and come home all excited, having discovered the thing I had been working on for months.  Maybe the instructor there had said it in a slightly different way that turned the light on.  Once, the student came back and excitedly told me what the camp instructor had said and it was EXACTLY THE SAME THING I had been saying for months.  She just hadn't been ready to hear it yet.  I just smiled and congratulated her.

[jbruced]

I completely agree with you Clarice. Well said.

[lutefisk]

Interesting topic.  As a teacher and as a student, I think there's also something to be said for the concept of readiness.  Sometimes a student simply isn't ready to learn something, no matter how well it is being explained.  In my own skating, I know my coach told me certain things over and over, but it was as if I couldn't hear them until I was "ready".  Then, one day, things would just click, I would express understanding, and she would look at me in amazement, saying "but I have been saying that to you every week for 6 months". 

In my own teaching, as a clarinet teacher, I have done the same - taught the same concept over and over, saying the same thing different ways (the best teachers have many ways of explaining the same thing), getting no immediate results, but knowing I was preparing the ground for eventual understanding.  Sometimes the student would go off to a camp or workshop and come home all excited, having discovered the thing I had been working on for months.  Maybe the instructor there had said it in a slightly different way that turned the light on.  Once, the student came back and excitedly told me what the camp instructor had said and it was EXACTLY THE SAME THING I had been saying for months.  She just hadn't been ready to hear it yet.  I just smiled and congratulated her.

Re: a student's readiness and a "second look" via a different coach; Yes, on both counts!  Plus, I might add "deliberate practice", i.e.  working those very skills which the individual hates or is weak rather than practicing the "fun" stuff! (see K. Anders Ericsson's review article on deliberate practice:

http://www.uvm.edu/~pdodds/files/papers/others/everything/ericsson2007a.pdf 

However, having said that, bad practice just incorporates bad habits and poor technique which sometimes (at least for me) takes forever to unlearn. Good coaching and guidance can't be stressed over stressed.

[dlbritton]

However, having said that, bad practice just incorporates bad habits and poor technique which sometimes (at least for me) takes forever to unlearn. Good coaching and guidance can't be stressed over stressed.

That is very true, which is why I ask my LTS coaches about proper moves and ask on this forum as well. I don't want to read about/watch something and practice a bad habit to perfection.

[ChristyRN]

That is very true, which is why I ask my LTS coaches about proper moves and ask on this forum as well. I don't want to read about/watch something and practice a bad habit to perfection.

My coach has given me "permission" to bail/step out of something when I catch myself doing it wrong so I don't keep teaching myself bad habits. Example: I have a horrible habit of looking over the wrong shoulder when attempting to spin. When I am aware of doing it, I stop the attempt. It's frustrating to realize I do it so much, but at the same time, it's frustrating because I know *why* I struggle with specific skills. I just don't know how to fix them because the bad habits are so ingrained now.

And another set of eyes never helps. We have no problems calling in another surgeon if we have doubts.