Has anyone ever heard of a usfsa club running an ISI comp?

[twokidsskatemom]

My clubs wants to do it.

[Kitten23]

Maybe it's a money maker.  However, I've never heard of it.

[Clarice]

If all those involved are also members of ISI, I guess they can do it.  But, technically, wouldn't it be the rink sponsoring the competition?  I don't do ISI, so admit a lot of ignorance here, but I thought it was a rink-based program rather than a club-based one?

[twokidsskatemom]

Not a money maker, and the rink doesnt want to do it.   The club has to buy the ice ect. I tried to explain to them we are USFSA and should do USFSA comps but they arent listening and I am outnumbered. I am trying to find out from USFSA if they even can but they dont care.

[FigureSpins]

Not sure about your worries regarding the ice time purchase ... that ice would have to be purchased regardless of whether the event is ISI- or USFSA-sanctioned. 

In order to run an ISI competition, the organization has to be an Administrative member of the ISI.  That membership is typically held by the rink, although skating clubs and skating schools can also be Admin members and organize ISI events.  Some USFSA skating clubs are also ISI skating clubs; Inside Edge in Montclair, NJ is one example.

I don't know if the ISI still requires all the skater to pass the ISI tests in order to compete; I think the "metal" levels (bronze, silver, gold, platinum) do not require ISI tests; there are USFSA equivalents that can be used.  If the competition is sanctioned by the ISI, there is a reciprocal agreement with the USFSA that protects the skaters' USFSA eligible status.

It's easier and less expensive to run an ISI competition than a USFSA competition.  Just the judging panel difference saves effort and money.  ISI judges are usually local skating coaches.  The USFSA requires certified judges above the Basic Skills levels, so in some areas, that means the Club has to pay for judges' travel and meal expenses.

As long as the proper membership and sanctions are arranged, it's not a big deal.  The ISI actually has more "fun" events on the books than the USFSA, so it could be more attractive.

If it's an in-house competition, it's not a bad idea.  Otherwise, if no other rinks or clubs in the area have ISI skaters, they may not get a good turnout. 

[twokidsskatemom]

We can run a basic skills up to prelim with non judges judging. We are an USFSA club, not an ISI club. I am not saying anything bad about ISI. I am saying I dont know if it can be done. USFSA will not sanction it, they already told me.  The rink doesnt want to run it, it isnt a money maker.

[blue111moon]

Why would the club want to do it in the first place?  Are there more ISI skaters in the area?

[twokidsskatemom]

Yes, there are more ISI skaters locally .We still are an USFSA club.Just wanted to see if this happened in other parts of the country.

[lutefisk]

My rink in Bowie, MD has a USFSA skating club but also an ISI skating team.  Last year Bowie hosted the ISI's district 4 competition.  This year the district 4 event will be held at a rink near Norfolk, VA.  Don't know if that rink has a USFSA club or not but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they do.

[AgnesNitt]

I think my club does. At least there's no ISI club, just the USFSA one, and we have ISI comps--synchro teams are all ISI for example.

[PinkLaces]

My old rink runs ISI LTS classes and has open freestyle ice available. They also have a small USFS club that calls the rink home and buys club ice.

The rink runs a large 3 day ISI competition every winter. It pays the USFS club money out of it's profits for the club to do the volunteer work. The club is doing a lot of the competition work, but not in charge of it. Skating Director paid by the rink runs it. It may appear to outsiders that the USFS club is running it, but they aren't.

The USFS club hold a one day USFS Basic skills competition each fall. This is sanctioned under USFS. Club buys all the ice, pays all expenses, keeps all the profits, etc. It is part of a basic skills series and makes a small profit. Rink does nothing but sell them ice and rent meeting rooms.

I don't get how they could hold an ISI competition without being Admin members of ISI. I do know of a small town figure skating organization (20 yrs old) that is an Admin member of ISI that independent of any rink. They actually hold LTS classes at 2 different rinks that are each independently managed. You don't have to be rink management to be an admin member of ISI. I wonder if the club could pay the admin fee and become a dual ISI/USFS organization.  I've never heard of that before.

[AgnesNitt]

My old rink runs ISI LTS classes and has open freestyle ice available. They also have a small USFS club that calls the rink home and buys club ice.

The rink runs a large 3 day ISI competition every winter. It pays the USFS club money out of it's profits for the club to do the volunteer work. The club is doing a lot of the competition work, but not in charge of it. Skating Director paid by the rink runs it. It may appear to outsiders that the USFS club is running it, but they aren't.

The USFS club hold a one day USFS Basic skills competition each fall. This is sanctioned under USFS. Club buys all the ice, pays all expenses, keeps all the profits, etc. It is part of a basic skills series and makes a small profit. Rink does nothing but sell them ice and rent meeting rooms.

I don't get how they could hold an ISI competition without being Admin members of ISI. I do know of a small town figure skating organization (20 yrs old) that is an Admin member of ISI that independent of any rink. They actually hold LTS classes at 2 different rinks that are each independently managed. You don't have to be rink management to be an admin member of ISI. I wonder if the club could pay the admin fee and become a dual ISI/USFS organization.  I've never heard of that before.

This may actually be what my rink does. It's an ISI rink, but teaches USFSA LTS, but has an ISI competition and a USFSA comp too.

[twokidsskatemom]

my club wants to run the whole thing, paying for ice, buying medals ect.The ISI rink will get the endorsement but then it will say hosted by..... figure skating club. I cant seem to get them to understand we should run basic skills since that is what we are. We can run ISI/basic skills together. since that is how state games are held. I dont have anything against ISI. Its just we arent an ISI club.  

[FigureSpins]

I feel like there's more to your objection than what you're saying - did you know that many of the US elite skaters started out in ISI?  USFSA Basic Skills and ISI are really very comparable at the lower levels, so it's six of one, a half-dozen of the other. 

This ISI competition sounds like a great idea if your State Games format includes ISI levels -- it's an opportunity for the kids to be challenged in a different way.  I think you should just be supportive of the club's creativity see how this pans out.  At least they're trying something new, which could be exciting.  Better than stagnating with the same old events each year. 

If there's no interest, the competition will be cancelled. 

[twokidsskatemom]

No, I  dont think you understand and you will not understand. I am not knocking ISI. My kids have been in ISI for 11 years. I am saying we are an USFSA club and as such should promote USFSA comps. Our state doesnt have state games, I said state games in other states run as an ISI/USFSA event.
We havent run an USFSA comp in years we dont offer test sessions. Why join? Dont need to join the club if we offer ISI comp either. I didnt ask to hear judges are cheaper and so on. I know that. I did not ask to debate ISI vs USFSA. I just asked to see if any clubs anywhere else offered the same thing.

[FigureSpins]

No, I  dont think you understand and you will not understand. I am not knocking ISI. My kids have been in ISI for 11 years. I am saying we are an USFSA club and as such should promote USFSA comps. Our state doesnt have state games, I said state games in other states run as an ISI/USFSA event.
We havent run an USFSA comp in years we dont offer test sessions. Why join? Dont need to join the club if we offer ISI comp either. I didnt ask to hear judges are cheaper and so on. I know that. I did not ask to debate ISI vs USFSA. I just asked to see if any clubs anywhere else offered the same thing.

Actually, I do understand, especially given your latest revelation that the rink is an ISI member and runs the ISI LTS program, plus the fact that your USFSA club doesn't offer any competitions or test sessions.  Your club has to rely on the rink's programs to attract new members and the rink probably has lots of new skaters who aren't ready or willing to transition to the USFSA formal testing yet. However, they might be interested in a fun, recreational competition that will open the door to considering Club membership. 

Instead of having the competitors work on alien BSS routines, the Club is planning to use the ISI categories that group skills in the same way that the LTS skaters have been learning.  Makes perfect sense to attract new skaters to competitions and to the Club in this scenario.  Once they have enough members, a USFSA test session would be the next step followed by a USFSA non-qualifying competition and/or events (No-test through Preliminary) when the skaters reach those levels.  I don't think an ordinary Basic Skills competition makes any sense - it wouldn't benefit anyone but the current members. 

As I said before, I have heard of this in areas where the ISI LTS program is still strong AND I gave you the example of Monclair Inside Edge.  (AKA: "Jersey on Ice.)  I believe this would be a great marketing idea for your Club.  You should endorse the idea and help the club grow. 

[Query]

I am saying we are an USFSA club and as such should promote USFSA comps.

If you want to compete in a USFSA competition, it makes sense that you should want that. But you may have to accept traveling some distance to do so.

I was told by a figure skating director that most comps lose money. The club doesn't just have to pay for judges.  (BTW, for low level ISI competitions, students' coaches commonly normally act as judges, and may not charge the club anything.) It may have to pay for ice time, possibly extra insurance, and extra rink fees. Some localities also require you to have present a licensed electrician, an EMT and/or a fire and rescue group. Depending on what it can and cannot manage on its own through volunteers, it may also have to pay someone to handle the music, and someone to supply food and photography (though the last two can sometimes be done through concessions). So running a comp represents a substantial investment, with a substantial risk.

Since ISI lessons, not USFSA lessons, are offerred at your rink, USFSA comps, especially Basic Skills level comps, are probably not economically viable. Not enough entrants. Someone told me (I don't know this for sure) that the USFSA also charges the club to let you run a USFSA comp than the ISI does for an ISI comp, and has more paperwork, and  club management has to spend a lot more time learning how to do the paperwork - a major issue for a small club without someone to donate a lot of time. (Perhaps that doesn't apply to competitions that only include Basic Skills?)

I know economic considerations are totally unfair. But a skating club is an economic entity. Most clubs can't afford to lose too much money.

This may not be an issue, but USFSA competitions are also somewhat boring for a small audience to watch. ISI competitions include more entertaining events, with props and such. So if the club plans to charge for admissions or ask for donations, and wants non-parents to attend too, an ISI comp makes more sense, for what I assume is a relatively small club.

A clubs that runs competitions that doesn't correspond to the rink's lessons may have to be fairly big, or fairly rich, or be able to pull in competitors from many other small local clubs, to make close to an economic go of it. In contrast, a LTS or WeSkate program creates its own pool of potential entrants.

Some clubs run their own lessons, so maybe you could try to convince your club to run LTS lessons - but that takes a REALLY big club, and some rinks don't permit group lessons that compete with its own.

[twokidsskatemom]

Actually, I do understand, especially given your latest revelation that the rink is an ISI member and runs the ISI LTS program, plus the fact that your USFSA club doesn't offer any competitions or test sessions.  Your club has to rely on the rink's programs to attract new members and the rink probably has lots of new skaters who aren't ready or willing to transition to the USFSA formal testing yet. However, they might be interested in a fun, recreational competition that will open the door to considering Club membership. 

Instead of having the competitors work on alien BSS routines, the Club is planning to use the ISI categories that group skills in the same way that the LTS skaters have been learning.  Makes perfect sense to attract new skaters to competitions and to the Club in this scenario.  Once they have enough members, a USFSA test session would be the next step followed by a USFSA non-qualifying competition and/or events (No-test through Preliminary) when the skaters reach those levels.  I don't think an ordinary Basic Skills competition makes any sense - it wouldn't benefit anyone but the current members. 

As I said before, I have heard of this in areas where the ISI LTS program is still strong AND I gave you the example of Monclair Inside Edge.  (AKA: "Jersey on Ice.)  I believe this would be a great marketing idea for your Club.  You should endorse the idea and help the club grow.

The club hasnt pulled anyone out of LTS in a few years. The clubs 9 skaters skate ISI which is is why they wish to have it. I have spent the best part of my past few years trying to get the club to grow  and unless we have better coaching  at some point its never going to be bigger than it is now. Small  state, small city, hockey ,  one learn to skate coach and one other coach who is moving soon. The LTS ISI program isnt strong either.  I  am the test chair, membership chair, president  chief cook and bottle washer of our club. I dont wish to run either an ISI or basic skills comp right now.I just said IF we were to run something it should be USFSA not ISI. There is no reason they couldnt get the few kids in LTS to learn a bs routine in privates any more than a ISI program in privates. 
So unless you know exactly  what is going on within our club/ state its hard for you to understand what we are going through. I just asked if anyone had ever heard of a USFSA club running an ISI event. Thanks for your input.

[Query]

Wow. That's amazing! What an incredible effort on your part! But were I you, I would rethink more than which club's comp to run.

How do you benefit from the time, money and effort spent running a USFSA club if only your kids, at most, are interested in USFSA tests or competitions? If you are running a club just to make sure your kids have local ice time to skate, an ISI club is easier to grow because it charges the members less, and is supposedly easier to run. If you or your kids are current elite skaters who need to test and compete within USFSA, they could join someone else's home club, where someone else washes the bottles. (They don't need to skate with that club.)

Regarding coaches, maybe you could carpool together with others to a distant rink for lessons scheduled at about the same time, maybe with the same coach. Likewise a decent coach might be willing to drive to your rink one session/week, if you can schedule a block of lessons with many students during that time. Either needs organizing, but so does running a USFSA club.

If none of these things make sense to you, you could go with the flow: hockey... 

[twokidsskatemom]

Wow. That's amazing! What an incredible effort on your part! But were I you, I would rethink more than which club's comp to run.

How do you benefit from the time, money and effort spent running a USFSA club if only your kids, at most, are interested in USFSA tests or competitions? If you are running a club just to make sure your kids have local ice time to skate, an ISI club is easier to grow because it charges the members less, and is supposedly easier to run. If you or your kids are current elite skaters who need to test and compete within USFSA, they could join someone else's home club, where someone else washes the bottles. (They don't need to skate with that club.)

Regarding coaches, maybe you could carpool together with others to a distant rink for lessons scheduled at about the same time, maybe with the same coach. Likewise a decent coach might be willing to drive to your rink one session/week, if you can schedule a block of lessons with many students during that time. Either needs organizing, but so does running a USFSA club.

If none of these things make sense to you, you could go with the flow: hockey... 

well we are joining another club this next season. We didnt used to be the only ones doing USFSA, but all the kids that started when my kids were young are long gone. We are 400 miles from other coaches, and they wouldnt come for the one hour a day of ice. There arent ISI clubs, but at the big rinks that I know of.You would have to have a parent led club , which  is really what I think they should do here.  It does sux. My kids arent interetsed in hockey, even though I told them they could get scholarships!