New Boots

[ChristyRN]

My rink is having a competition/test session today. Jackson skates rep Mark Ladwig was at the rink yesterday. I talked to him about my boots and my goal of split last boots in another year or so after I pass Bronze FS. I'm currently in a Competitor 7B--fits my heel perfectly. My former pair was a 7C--fit my forefoot perfectly. Mark measured my feet. I have a 7B heel/arch and 6EE forefoot. Yikes! Essentially, when I try to get on my rocker (not *off* my rocker  ) I pitch forward to my toepick. It actually makes sense with some of the problems I've been having and trying to work with for most of the time I've been skating.

I came home and sweet talked my DH. I'm getting new skates for my birthday! I'm going to run back up tomorrow and let him remeasure and take all the notes he wants to get them right. I do have to step up to the Premier, but he didn't seem to feel that it would be too hard to adjust to since there is more padding to sort of counterbalance the increased stiffness. He even thinks the blades might transfer since they aren't the entire length of the sole now.

Of course, I also want to try to talk to my coach tomorrow if I can grab her between her skaters.

[sk8time]

I'm very curious how the new skates will help with the issue of rocking onto the toepick, as I have the same problem.   Did the Jackson rep comment on this specifically?

[Query]

when I try to get on my rocker (not *off* my rocker  ) I pitch forward to my toepick.

Could be a blade problem. E.g., mounting position too far back for your personal body balance. Or the sharpener needs to move or re-emphasize the sweet spot (what you call the rocker) on the blades, things only a very good sharpener should try.

On custom boots, some boot makers cut the soles so that aligning the front of the mounting plates with the front of the boot soles will work well with your blades and feet, but on other boots, or if you are using much different blades than the boots were custom designed for, that standard mounting position, together with the sweet spot position built into the blades, may not work well with your feet.

As an example, if that sweet spot is behind the spot on your foot where you are most comfortable balancing (typically around the ball of your foot, where it bends up as your foot rolls forward under weight), it is hard to hold yourself back from rolling all the way forwards. Especially on, but not exclusive to, Ultima blades, which have a shorter usable spin rocker length (the more curved section forwards of the sweet spot, up to the point of roll where the first toe pick touches) than MK and Wilson blades.

But maybe there are boot things too that could do that too, like maybe heel height, or maybe a boot that isn't shaped right for where the balls of your feet are.

[ChristyRN]

Looking at the blade placement, the rocker is in front of the ball of my foot. Under my toes. No wonder I struggle so much. My current coach was astounded that I'd never been actually measured/fitted before. I didn't know better and none of my previous coaches (three) had suggested it. She seems to think that proper-fitting boots will make a world of difference. The coach I had for LTS could tell what was going on after I told her. She said it was obvious. . .

I ordered them this afternoon. They will call Jackson Monday along with all the others from this weekend.

[Query]

In the mean time, perhaps you could remount your blades a little further back, so the sweet spots are under the balls of your feet? Might solve your whole issue with your current boots, without needing to move the sweet spot. Though that will make your blade tails a little longer, so try not to cross and trip over them.

I have the opposite problem from you - so said Phil (if I remember his name and details right), a fitter (and one-time boot maker) from Harlick. My toes are shorter than average, so the default sweet spot is behind the balls of my feet. Maybe you have longer toes than average.

I don't think that minor foot shape variation matters nearly as much in regular shoes, because we don't do nearly as many crazy things in regular shoes as we do in skates. Then again, I'm a guy, and have never worn any high heels except skates. Do stiletto heels require extra careful fit too?

That coach sounds like a wonderful resource! She is a pro, whereas I mostly learned from my own mistakes, and from talking to others - which is why I guessed you had my problem (sweet spot too far back) rather than the opposite problem.

[ChristyRN]

My toes are short. Never heard that before. And the rocker is IN Front of my toes, not behind.

I only wear heels for special occasions like my wedding or cruise formal nights. I struggle with them because my default shoes are sneakers, sandals and skates.

[Query]

Do I understand what you mean by "rocker" correctly? I.E., the point on the blade, that I was taught to call a sweet spot, which is an easy-to-feel point along the blade that a spinning skater can try to turn or balance on, where it changes from the "main rocker" long-wise blade curvature, to the more curved "spin rocker" long-wise blade curvature up front. (If you have a Wilson blade, it probably has two sweet spots, and you can use either.)

If your "rocker" is in front of your toes, as you say, moving the blade mounts back would place it under the balls, which is why I suggested that. 

I can't explain why a person with short toes would have that issue. Perhaps the blades were sharpened wrong.

[icedancer]

I wondered about this also.  If the rocker is in front of your toes, then the boots are too big! 

[ChristyRN]

I wondered about this also.  If the rocker is in front of your toes, then the boots are too big!

Exactly! And they never felt like it. I just didn't like the tightness of the B width on the ball of my foot.

Moving the blade  back will not work since that will put the heel plate off the back of the heel.

[FigureSpins]

You have Jackson Competitors, right?  I really think Jackson's gone beyond the pale with their "economies of scale" effort.  They put super-long laces in boots so they don't have to keep as many different lengths in stock.  I've seen stock skate sets with blades mounted end-to-end, I assume for the same reason - fewer lengths to stock for the factory.

I have a 7B heel/arch and 6EE forefoot

I get the EE/B width variance; that's a split-width, but why the "split length" measurement?  (7 vs. 6)  I don't understand what that means.

You probably won't be able to move the blade to the new boots if you're going down in size/length.  Don't order a new blade yet - get the boots measured after you try them on for fit, then order the blade 1/4" shorter. 

[Query]

Moving the blade  back will not work since that will put the heel plate off the back of the heel.

I don't know how big a shift you need.

But you only need the part of the heel plate that has the front holes to be on the heel, because that would allow you to screw the two together. But depending on how much you have to push the mount back, and how close you keep your feet to each other, you might have to grind off the back of the blades so you don't keep tripping on the tails. In theory you could also grind off the back of the mounting plate, though that would affect your ability to mount the blades on the new boots, so you probably don't want to do that. Likewise, you may not want have your blade profile reshaped even if you have an expert sharpener, until you get your new boots.

And yes, by my understanding, if the ball position of the foot doesn't match the ball position of the boot, it would indeed be an over-all boot fit problem, rather than a problem solvable by moving or reshaping the blade. In that case, unless your feet have grown since the original fit, it always was a poor fit, and you might be better off with a different fitter, as the heel - to - ball length is one of the most important characteristics of fit, more important according to at least one well respected fitter, Mike Cunningham, than the heel - to - tip-of-toe length, presumably provided that the tips of your toes don't smash against the front of the boot.

[ChristyRN]

You have Jackson Competitors, right?  I really think Jackson's gone beyond the pale with their "economies of scale" effort.  They put super-long laces in boots so they don't have to keep as many different lengths in stock.  I've seen stock skate sets with blades mounted end-to-end, I assume for the same reason - fewer lengths to stock for the factory.

I get the EE/B width variance; that's a split-width, but why the "split length" measurement?  (7 vs. 6)  I don't understand what that means.

You probably won't be able to move the blade to the new boots if you're going down in size/length.  Don't order a new blade yet - get the boots measured after you try them on for fit, then order the blade 1/4" shorter.

Short toes. The arch of my foot fits perfectly in the 7, but the short toes make the forefoot too long. Weird. Guess I'll find out when I try on the new ones.

I'm hoping to move the blades. They're not quite end to end, so it might work. If not, I guess I'll get new MK Pros in a shorter length and try to sell mine. Plenty of life left in the boots and blades.

[Doubletoe]

My rink is having a competition/test session today. Jackson skates rep Mark Ladwig was at the rink yesterday. I talked to him about my boots and my goal of split last boots in another year or so after I pass Bronze FS.

When you speak of Mark Ladwig and "split last boots" I can't help remembering Mark and his split heel boot, LOL! I've never seen Amanda look so nervous. . .  http://youtu.be/QeMIuz_usSk?t=1m30s

[ChristyRN]

The pro shop called. My new boots will be here in about four weeks.  I'm looking forward to them.