Dealing with DOMS

[sampaguita]

I now have a split routine for strengthening -- I alternate upper and lower body, and I work out every day (or I try to). I do core strengthening every time.

I do dynamic workouts for the upper body (rows, pushups, extensions, curls). For the lower body, I am back to isometrics after a bad experience with lunging, and the squat is my only dynamic exercise. For some reason, isometrics work best with my lower body (my knees!!!!), but I prefer dynamic exercises for the upper body.

A split routine is ideal for me, as each workout (until stretching) takes 1 hour, so I really have to do it in a split routine. However, I also skate, and I can't skate when I'm sore. I tried once (quads were hurting and pulling my knee), and it got a lot worse. So I have to skate when my muscles are recovered. For me, Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) heals 2 days after the exercise. When I overdo it, it's 3-4 days.

So, in a week, this means that if I want to skate with functioning muscles, I can only do strength training 4 days a week, get 2 days off, then skate. I can't skate on 2 consecutive days too, since skating is a lower body exercise for me and I do end up getting sore legs after skating.

I would like to skate 2x a week by June, but given my DOMS history, I don't see how this is possible. I can't decrease my strength training frequency (since they're actually 2x a week right now split in two parts), so the only way that I can skate 2x a week is if I don't get DOMS.

How do you avoid DOMS? I used to sleep on ice packs but that doesn't work too well anymore.

[Skittl1321]

Can't really help- but be very careful sleeping with ice packs.  Leaving ice on too long can cause nerve damage.  A family friend been drafted to the NBA, fell asleep with ice packs on his leg, and lost enough function he can't play at all anymore.

Have you talked to a trainer or a PT about your routine? Maybe what you are doing isn't actually ideal for you.  It seems very strange to me that you get so sore after skating you can't skate 2 days in a row.  I've been sore from skating (could barely walk after an 8 hour workshop), but still managed to muster the ability to get back on the ice again the next day.  If you only skate a few hours in one day, being too sore to skate the next day seems odd. Same with workouts- after my arm days, my arms HURT. They hurt badly, but I can still use them...

Maybe you need to do arm day, skate, leg day, arm day, skate, leg day.  That gives you 2 days between skating, and a recovery day from your legs.  But if your skating workout is as hard on your legs as your leg day, then this won't work...   Or could you do arm day, leg day, cardio day, skate- repeat?

[ONskater74]

What are you eating? If you are starving your muscles you are headed for perennial problems. I used to do weight training, as a guy, and what I ate was critical. I'm not an expert, but if you know any personal trainers I'm sure they can advise. I just eat tons of protein and fibre, everything else comes along for the ride. No junk. Take vitamins, I take D, plus selenium and ginkgo biloba. Eat lots of fish (sardines lol    ) and beans, red kidney beans etc. whole wheat bread 4-6 slices a day, yadayadayada. Gotta feed the muscles so they can repair the damage, otherwise they stay damaged and never recuperate. That is how guys bulk up, just damage the tissue and feed it protein so it heals, then damage it again and feed it and repeat and pretty soon you're packing 20 extra pounds of straight muscle. Secret is to control the damage precisely and feed it lots. If your muscles are lagging and sore for days they are not being fed right, somehow. If you don;t want bulging rippling muscles maybe pick other off-ice exercises like pilates?
I don't bother even trying to bulk up, I just stretch and stretch and work on flexibility. For me as a guy that usually gets me into a sweat

End of the day, feed your muscles what they need, or suffer.

[nicklaszlo]

If the goal is to get better at skating, it seems to me that your ratio of off ice to on ice training is really high.

Do you do a cardiovascular warm up and cool down surrounding strength training?

If you can't skate for two days after off ice, that is telling me you are doing too much off ice.

[sarahspins]

I'm with Nick... off ice can be helpful, but if you are doing so much that it's impacting your on ice time or preventing you from skating, then that's obviously too much.

[sampaguita]

Have you talked to a trainer or a PT about your routine? Maybe what you are doing isn't actually ideal for you.  It seems very strange to me that you get so sore after skating you can't skate 2 days in a row.  I've been sore from skating (could barely walk after an 8 hour workshop), but still managed to muster the ability to get back on the ice again the next day.  If you only skate a few hours in one day, being too sore to skate the next day seems odd. Same with workouts- after my arm days, my arms HURT. They hurt badly, but I can still use them...

Thanks Skittl! That ice pack story is scary -- the worst experience I had was that I slept on the ice packs touching my bare skin, and it damaged my skin. Took at least a month to heal. I'm so sorry for your family friend, that is really sad...

I don't know why I need a rest day after skating. It's just the day after any leg workout that involves quad and glute work, my legs just don't feel like squatting anymore. They're fine for everyday stuff like walking, commuting and climbing stairs -- sore but not painful -- but skating (which for me is like perennial squatting) gets hard. But maybe arm day-leg day-cardio day-skate might work!

What are you eating? If you are starving your muscles you are headed for perennial problems.

I don't eat junk food, but I don't think I eat enough protein too. I guess part of it is that I'm also controlling calorie intake (translate: I try not to eat too much). I tend to want to eat a lot after a workout, but I try to binge on fruits instead after I've had a "regular" sized meal. WRONG! Thanks for reminding me.

Do you do a cardiovascular warm up and cool down surrounding strength training?

For warmup for the upper body, I just keep doing the plank and side plank for at least 2 sets of 60 seconds each, sometimes longer. For lower body, I do the plank/side plank/bridge/one-foot bridge. I find that these isometrics literally warm up my muscles, that's why I don't do cardio...but is that enough? I don't know much about this stuff, so if you have anything to share, please do! Thanks!

Also, I'm not really sure if I do "weight training" -- my dumbbells are only 2lb, 3lb, and 5lb (please don't laugh). I mainly use the dumbbells for upper body exercises like rows, tricep extensions, curls and raises.

(Btw My trainer wanted me to run on the treadmill before the workout but I hate, hate, hate having to run on the treadmill. Walking is fine, but the impact of landing while running hurts my knees.)

[sarahspins]

(Btw My trainer wanted me to run on the treadmill before the workout but I hate, hate, hate having to run on the treadmill. Walking is fine, but the impact of landing while running hurts my knees.)

Ask your trainer to evaluate this - something isn't right with that if it hurts to the point that you feel like you can't do it even as a warm up.   I don't like running (I lack the endurance to do it for long, it's not that it hurts anything, and I have a rebuilt knee and am missing cartilage in the other) but even I can manage to jog long enough to get my muscles warmed up and get my heartrate up (usually at least a few minutes) ... it's part of my pre-ice routine, so that I am ready to move when I get on the ice, rather than wasting 10-15 minutes warming up on the ice (I normally warm up for about 15 minutes off ice, including stretching).  My sessions are usually more productive when I get on the ice ready to work.

I'm not really sure I understand the distinction between DOMS and just regular sore muscles after a workout - if I overdo it on the ice (or otherwise) I'm always sore the next day, never right away.  If I was hurting right after an activity I'd consider that a very bad sign - like I'd possibly strained a muscle or otherwise injured myself.  Waking up a little sore and stiff the next day is how I know I pushed myself just hard enough.. if I am really hurting and miserable, then I know I did too much.. all of that is normal.  You either suck it up and work through it and get stronger, or you don't.  There's really no way around some discomfort when you are building muscles.  Obviously everyone has a different tolerance for pain, but if you want to get stronger you can't make excuses to get out of doing the things you don't like.

[sampaguita]

I'm not really sure I understand the distinction between DOMS and just regular sore muscles after a workout - if I overdo it on the ice (or otherwise) I'm always sore the next day, never right away.  If I was hurting right after an activity I'd consider that a very bad sign - like I'd possibly strained a muscle or otherwise injured myself.  Waking up a little sore and stiff the next day is how I know I pushed myself just hard enough.. if I am really hurting and miserable, then I know I did too much.. all of that is normal.  You either suck it up and work through it and get stronger, or you don't.  There's really no way around some discomfort when you are building muscles.  Obviously everyone has a different tolerance for pain, but if you want to get stronger you can't make excuses to get out of doing the things you don't like.

I think you're talking about DOMS -- it's something you experience hours after the exercise, not right after. For me, the muscles may hurt temporarily (like what I did with the lunges), and then the pain disappeared, but then it will come back the next morning when I wake up. Most of the time it's tolerable, it's just that when my muscles (esp. glutes and quads) are really sore, the constant knee bend in skating (which feel just like squats to me) just aggravates it and my knees don't feel good afterwards for days.

I think I may be able to schedule skating after upper body day -- I haven't tried that one. Right now, my chest and back muscles are the ones that are sore after upper body day. They might impact crossovers and consecutive edges (or pretty much any move that requires me to twist my body or squeeze my back), but I'll see.

[PinkLaces]

How long are you skating each session?  I know for me about 1.5 hours is the perfect amount of time to get what I need to practice without getting too sore. Two hours is too long for me.  I split my ice time to 3 days/week instead of doing marathon ice sessions.

[sarahspins]

I think you're talking about DOMS -- it's something you experience hours after the exercise, not right after. For me, the muscles may hurt temporarily (like what I did with the lunges), and then the pain disappeared, but then it will come back the next morning when I wake up.

Maybe, but I've never really seen this "condition" used as an excuse not to be active.. and certainly never described as an abnormal result of exercise - it really seems to be a normal and expected part of the process. The more active I am when my muscle are sore the less my muscles hurt. To read that it's impacting you so severely that you "can't" skate more than twice a week though... makes me suspect perhaps you're dealing with something more significant (and I'm not suggesting any specific conditions because I'm neither a doctor nor is it possible to diagnose anyone over the internet) or that you are actually injuring yourself during those off ice workouts.

[sampaguita]

or that you are actually injuring yourself during those off ice workouts.

Possibly. I've only started this split 4-days-a-week recently (before it was mostly lower body, 2-3x a week, with a rest day in between). That, coupled with adding dynamic exercises, may have been too much too soon.

How long are you skating each session?  I know for me about 1.5 hours is the perfect amount of time to get what I need to practice without getting too sore. Two hours is too long for me.  I split my ice time to 3 days/week instead of doing marathon ice sessions.

I often skate for two hours in a session, most of which are spent on stroking and edges...

[FigureSpins]

DOMS is usually associated with intense training.  I've watched your videos and I can't understand why you're feeling so debilitated that you've self-diagnosed yourself with DOMS.  That's a serious training issue, but I don't see you working at the level that would generate *that much* pain.  I've only had debilitating pain a few times - once after showing off/keeping up with an Advances Pilates class that I had no business attending in the first place, roflol!  (My abs were horribly sore for a week - couldn't straighten up for two days!)

For the record, when I overdo it physically, I feel it the next day, but the second day is always the worst.  I just take Advil, hot epsom salt baths and do gentle stretching to get myself mobile again.  I drink water throughout my workouts.  After I work out, I cool down and stretch well before having a recovery snack that does include protein.  Because of the tendonitis, I also take an NSAID to prevent inflammation and pain, along with more water.

Either you're overtraining for your current physical limits, or you're not getting the proper rest, care and after-workout cooldown/treatments, or you have a medical condition that warrants attention.  Joint and muscle pain can be caused by any number of nutritional or auto-immune disorders.  What you're currently doing isn't working if you're in so much pain that you can't skate, so you need to figure out what works for you with the help of real-life professionals.

No one on this board can advise you properly.

[Purple Sparkly]

Two types of exercise-related muscle soreness: acute soreness and delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS).  You can experience both with one workout, but they are different.  Acute soreness occurs right after a workout.  Delayed onset muscle soreness begins 24-48 hours after your workout.  DOMS is not healthy and damages your muscles.  If you are experiencing it often, you need to reduce the intensity (not frequency) of your workouts.  Additional physical activity will damage your muscles further.  Adequate rest and proper nutrition are essential.

Just to reiterate:  You should NOT experience muscle soreness the day after a workout.  If you do, you did too much.  Reduce your intensity.

One more time:  You should NOT experience muscle soreness the day after a workout.  If you do, you did too much.  Reduce your intensity.

If your knees hurt during/after running, consider altering your gait.  A heel strike can cause knee and hip pain as your are not using the multitude of joints in your foot to help absorb the impact.

If your trainer does not seem concerned about the frequency with which you are experiencing DOMS, get a new trainer.

(I'll end by noting that I have taken several college-level exercise science classes and not a single person has ever said that DOMS is normal and healthy.  Not one.)

[ONskater74]

Re; bingeing on fruit.
Umm, fruit is mostly water and sugar with a bit of fibre to keep it from falling apart. Athletes in training need tissue building foods, blood building foods. By all means eat some fruit, eat some veggies, but if you want to build strength you need protein and food rich in nutrients. It should be densely packed with stuff your body needs so you don;t have to eat barrels of the stuff. You need healthy fats, you need proteins, you need to worry less about your weight and worry more about overall physical condition. You are not trying to be a model, but a skater right? Joints need lube, this comes from what you eat. Muscles need fuel, this comes from what you eat. Tissues, bones, cartilage, everything comes from what you eat. If you fill up on water and fructose by eating fruit it is counterproductive. Now you are asking your body to process all that sugar and get rid of it somehow. Some fruit servings are necessary and desirable, but filling up on fruit is bad.

[sampaguita]

Thanks for all the advice, everyone! I will try to lessen my intensity of the workout first, as some of you recommended, and then maybe increase the load gradually. I agree with FigureSpins: actually, I don't know why skating tires me that much when I really don't jump, but maybe it's because I tire myself doing off-ice other days of the week.

ONskater, yes I'll remember that. Thank you!