Skate Science Blades

[FigureSpins]

Interesting new entry on the blade market.  Good website.

http://www.skatescience.net/

Hey, Kiwi - the designer is originally from New Zealand!  Maybe you can get a skatingforums discount set up, lol.

[alejeather]

I think my dance coach may have these blades. I'll ask him in my next lesson.

[icedancer]

I think my dance coach may have these blades. I'll ask him in my next lesson.

Oh yes, please do - I have heard good things! (from I think one person...) -

We are always looking for the perfect dance blade -

[Query]

I called the designer on the phone. He aims his ad squarely at elite level skaters, and perhaps those who see themselves as progressing in that direction. Since he said that elite skaters needed different blade shapes (namely his) than low level skaters, because blades that are optimal for low level skaters didn't meet the requirements of elite skaters well, I asked whether he planned to bring out blades for low level skaters. He said no - that his blades would be optimal for low level skaters too (I asked about shaping the blade to make 3-turns and waltz jumps easier) - which contradicts the original claim.

I sort of get what physics he is claiming:

(1) You want the blade and toe pick shape to tend to vault you into the air at just the right take-off angle for the type and level of jumps you are doing.

(2) You want the rocker profile and pick style - somewhat hockey blade style - to be matched to the power curve of your individual muscles ((how much strength you individually produce at different body positions within your jumps and strokes). (Some short and long track speed skaters do vary rocker profiles to match their individual power curves - I'm not sure how common that is.)

(3) You want the sweet spot to match your individual balance point, for the moves that you have trouble with.

(4) For Dance, you want the edge-to-edge rock-over characteristics to match the way judges will rate your moves within the discipline and level you are skating at.

The problem is that from a basic physics perspective, the exact shape that does these things optimally will vary depending on your individual muscular-skeletal structure, and your individual power curves.

So it's a lot like a sneaker manufacturer claiming that their shoes are shaped optimally for everyone's anatomy. They can't really do that. Unless you really believe that all elite level skaters (and would-be elite level skaters) have the same foot shapes and muscular-skeletal structures and power curves.

So it is possible that Skate Science blades will only do better for some elite level skaters, and not others.

[davincisop]

Those toepicks are frightening, just in the way they are photographed. They look like mini monsters lol.

[FigureSpins]

They look like they have more toepicks in the rake than other blades.  It's intriguing that the second-from-the-bottom toepick is larger than the bottom one.  Might stop Floops by providing stability.

[icedancer]

Looking through the inventor's credentials - he looks very highly qualified that is for sure!

I like the way the blades are shown with the edges facing each other - you can really see the blade profiles in those pictures!

[Hanca]

I looked at the dance blades and noticed that there is not written what rocker the blades have. Is it rocker 7 or 8? I would have thought that if someone wants to buy blades, they would want to know, so not sure why it is not written on the webside.

[alejeather]

Oh yes, please do - I have heard good things! (from I think one person...) -

We are always looking for the perfect dance blade -

Sorry, I forgot to ask last week, but I did today. I was right--my dance coach does wear Skate Science blades. He says he skated in MK Dance blades for 40 years, but he would never switch back, he loves them that much.

He knows the Skate Science founder personally and told me the story of the company and about some of what went into designing and manufacturing the blades. He spoke very highly of them. He agreed that the marketing on the website is terrible, but that currently, there has been very little money for proper literature.

He gave me an earful, so if anyone wants to know more, I can pass it along. All in all, he was very positive about the blades and encouraged me to put out a good word for them.

[platyhiker]

He gave me an earful, so if anyone wants to know more, I can pass it along. All in all, he was very positive about the blades and encouraged me to put out a good word for them.

Being the geeky, analytical type of person, I'm curious about what feels different (to him) about the blades, and any comments he has about *why* he likes the blades.  Always curious!   

[icedancer]

I am also curious - wondering if has an opinion about the "level" that the skater should be to wear those blades - I have worn MK Dance for the last 10+ years and always kind of hated them - LOL - wondering what the differences are.

[Query]

We are always looking for the perfect dance blade -

Precisely what are the characteristics of perfection, for you?

I have worn MK Dance for the last 10+ years and always kind of hated them.

Precisely what is so hateful about MK Dance Blades?

If either of you can determine exactly what you want your blades to do, you can seek to alter your current blades in such a way as to come closer to perfection. It's possible to make minor changes to the shape of your blades, often by a thousandth of an inch or less, using relatively inexpensive hand tools, that have an enormous impact on the way your blade performs.

I love trying to do that. Intuition and empirical trials can guide one towards the desired result.

But of course, you have to analyze exactly how you are attempting to achieve the desired results, what needs to change, and how the blade must behave differently to help you achieve those changes. That's the really hard part, where I have the most trouble.

[alejeather]

Being the geeky, analytical type of person, I'm curious about what feels different (to him) about the blades, and any comments he has about *why* he likes the blades.  Always curious!   

Here's what I remember:
- Excellent control of edges (he came back to this a lot)
- Good stability
- Easy turns
- Glides easily
- Much longer between sharpenings (from weekly to monthly)

He said the blade profile is different so that the sweet spot for things like spins and turns is bigger.

[svfate]

My daughter has been skating in the double plus blade by skate science and has seen huge improvement in her spins, footwork, speed and moves in the field.  She loves the big toe pick and big rocker because it is so easy to spin.  Our disappointment has been that she lost her double loop, double flip and double lutz for 6 weeks and they are just now starting to return but her jumps are still much more inconsistent then they ever were before.  We are thinking of changing blades again to regain more comfort for her in her jumps but she hates the idea of losing speed in her spins.  We do know a few other skaters on the dance blade and they love them!

[iomoon]

Yeah... I think he needs to work with a marketer and website designer. Even though it's+ expensive, it's worth it in the long term.

[Query]

Actually I like the web page.

It was really interesting to read an 1898 book on skating, and see that they already had most of the main ideas that currently go into blades. Hollow, rocker, sweet spot, straight, parabolic, tapered, side honing, a better mount system than blades have now, better thought out countersinks. Experimentation, padding. (OK, no toe picks... But they were doing figures.) The Skate Science guy is quite correct that the main blade makers haven't had a lot of new ideas of late.

He has really great sounding qualifications. I think a lot of people could go for the message the web site delivers. Metallurgy IS very important, but knowledge of how to skate, and how to coach skaters, should matter.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Skate science came out with a new version called axel express. Its suppose to be for people starting to work on axels. Thats probably the lowest level blades he will design. The price tag is supposedly $199 which is not bad considering that they are stainless steel and has decent toe-pics. (Like thats ever been a problem for them). Im seriously considerig them for that price. Whats your oppinion?

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[FigureSpins]

I had never heard of this brand nor do I know anyone using them, which is why I posted.  Brand new blades...why be their guinea pig?  Better to buy a used pair of popular blades that are in good shape.  $200 is too much to spend on an unproven pair of blades.  The sellers (and their "shills" on the 'net) would pshaw my concern, but if the blades don't work for you, you're out $200.  (Unless they have a "love 'em or return 'em" policy.  That would make it worth a try.)

Who cares if they're unique; what matters is what you can do on the blades.  Always remember and never forget: skaters wear the blades, not the other way around. 

[alejeather]

Skate science came out with a new version called axel express. Its suppose to be for people starting to work on axels. Thats probably the lowest level blades he will design. The price tag is supposedly $199 which is not bad considering that they are stainless steel and has decent toe-pics. (Like thats ever been a problem for them). Im seriously considerig them for that price. Whats your oppinion?

Huh! I didn't know he had added a lower level blade than the DoublePlus. Thanks for pointing it out.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Personally I think that for $200 is not bad considering that they probably are like coronation ace level equivalency. All companies got to start somewhere. I don't mind being a test guinea pig for the blades.


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[supersharp]

I'm new to the forum and have been reading through various topics. Finally, I have found my people!  Details and passionate curiosity are hard to find, so I've been binge-reading in my spare time.  I have noticed multiple comments with questions about SkateScience blades so I thought I'd share my experience.

I have skated on the Olympus Dance blade for the last 5 years, with most of my previous skating being on the Coronation Ace. I needed new blades recently and they are having a supply chain issue getting the steel from Sweden, so Warren suggested I try the synchro blade since it has the same profile but a larger toe pick. He has been recommending this for dancers, and suggesting that their skate tech could grind down the toe pick to match the dance blade.  I really wanted new blades to go on my new boots , so I ordered the synchro blade. My dance partner skates on the Triple/Quad freestyle blade in a size 1/4" shorter than the maximum for his boot (to keep the tails from being quite so long and also keeping the blade out of the custom order length category).

General comments:  the metal these blades are made from flows across the ice like silk. I'd have a hard time switching to anything else. My coach tried my skates because she needs new blades and does both dance and freestyle...and immediately ordered a pair of the synchro blades.  She has been on MK Gold Star and MK Dance for decades, but always wished she could find more of a hybrid for simplicity.  She's a USFSA triple gold medalist, and I was surprised by how much she wanted my blades. 

Dance vs. Synchro: 
Profile is the same...but the rear stanchion is lower on the synchro blade, so it affects the natural balance point.  For me, this turned out to be an easy way to resolve my skier tendency to be too far forward, so I'll probably stick with the synchro blade from now on.  [And if I didn't like the lower rear stanchion, I could just shim it under the heel until I achieved the desired ramp angle.] 

Synchro blade is about 1 cm longer, which kind of put me in a panic when I first opened the box and compared. [I switched to dance blades because I kept stepping on the tails of my Aces.  After a lot of mental writhing around, I convinced myself that it would be fine because my dance blades are so short that the back lines up with the back of the heel.  One more cm is still nowhere near my other blade when I do a tight T-position.]  On the ice, the extra cm increases my flow, so I'm glad I didn't reject the blades based on length. 

Toe pick is larger on the Synchro blade.  Back pivots are really nice now.  Have not tried any jumps yet, but need to at least work on a waltz jump soon because there is a waltz jump move in our current free dance program. I had one "toe pick" moment but fortunately was with a partner so no slam to the ice.  I've been on the new blades for 2 weeks, which means 6 sessions in these grim, limited-ice days of Covid.

Skill level comments, in case they help with perspective:  I grew up skiing and dancing, started skating after our rink was built in 2004.  It's open half to 2/3 of the year, so even though that sounds like 18 years, in ice months, it's closer to maybe 12 years.  I'm working on Pre-Gold pattern dance, Silver free dance, and Gold moves.  I passed the PB free skate test a long time ago (learned singles up through lutz) but really have more interest in dance.  Maybe with the new gnarly toe pick I will revive my previously decent single toe, but due to years of skiing, my knees just don't tolerate a lot of jump landings. I have been coaching adult learn-to-skate since 2006 (I had coached skiing for decades, so it was an easy transition) and have coached adult synchro (due to my dance team background) and lower-level freestyle.  Last year, I started working through becoming a USFS judge for dance and singles, but test sessions are so limited now that getting through the trial period might take forever. 

If you have specific questions about the blades, fire away. 

[Bill_S]

I had ordered the Skate Science dance blades a little over a year ago, and even after a _long_ wait, they never arrived. I eventually got a refund, but it took a bit of doing to get it.

I think that Skate Science blades would be more popular with a bit more old-fashioned customer service. I wish that I could have tried them.

[tstop4me]

Do you find that the edge life of the Skate Science stainless steel blades is longer than the edge life of the Wilson plain carbon steel blades?

[tstop4me]

I had ordered the Skate Science dance blades a little over a year ago, and even after a _long_ wait, they never arrived. I eventually got a refund, but it took a bit of doing to get it.

I think that Skate Science blades would be more popular with a bit more old-fashioned customer service. I wish that I could have tried them.

Yeah.  I know the owner of a pro shop who's a well-known coach and ex-competitive skater.  When Skate Science introduced their line, he asked them for a freebie demo model (at least on loan).  He said he'd try them out.  If he liked them, he'd carry them in his shop.  They refused his request.  You'd think that a company trying to break into a market dominated by well-established competitors would welcome the opportunity.

[supersharp]

I had ordered the Skate Science dance blades a little over a year ago, and even after a _long_ wait, they never arrived. I eventually got a refund, but it took a bit of doing to get it.

I think that Skate Science blades would be more popular with a bit more old-fashioned customer service. I wish that I could have tried them.

I waited almost a year for my first pair.  I was just really curious about them, mainly because they had allegedly been designed with a profile for more modern elements like twizzles, and one of my non-local coaches had encouraged me to try them.  I completely agree that it would have been great if there had been better communication, but in the end I was glad that I held out because they are lovely.  In the meantime, I tried a pair of Ultima Ascend dance blades that were really strange because I had them in my stockpile and the Aces were getting too flat.  They felt like they had about a 6' rocker and the toepicks looked just like the Pattern 99.  The master pick was set farther back than I was used to, so unless I wanted them mounted with the front of the plate protruding (should have tried it, actually), I was stuck hitting my toe pick way too soon all the time.  It was a useful experience, though, and taught me something about paying attention to where the pick is located under your foot when selecting new blades.

I bought a second pair of Sk8Sci dance blades in late 2018 just to get the process started early in case it took a year to get them.  They arrived in two weeks.  Amazing. I only mounted them a few months ago (Nov 2020) when the first blade was getting too flat, but I wanted another set for my new boots so I would have backup skates with the same blades on them...so I ordered another pair in December 2020.  That was when they didn't have them but had the synchro blade.  So now I have a pair of dance blades with 1 sharpening on them and my new boots with synchro blades.  Once I get a little more mileage in, I will probably shim the toe plate of the dance boots to get the same ramp angle as with the synchro blades, because I like it better. 

Do you find that the edge life of the Skate Science stainless steel blades is longer than the edge life of the Wilson plain carbon steel blades?

Yes, the blades definitely hold an edge much longer than the Ace did.  Probably twice as long, and when it gets dull it seems more forgiving than when the JW blade was dull. 

I made a much quicker adjustment to the SkateScience blade than to the Ultima.  The frustrating thing, as Bill_S noted on the Eclipse Dance, is that my spins just died.  I had been able to do a strong, consistent forward spin on the Aces, occasionally to the point where it was like being transported to another place (probably what the whirling Dervishes are going for), but I just couldn't spin consistently on the new blades. A lot of my dance and moves problems resolved, though, so it felt like it was worth it.  Stepping on the back of the Aces created such terrible falls.  I also felt like I always had to sort of fight to get my CM where I wanted it on the Aces and the Sk8Sci felt more like I could choose where I put myself.  Ultimately, I rebuilt my spin technique from the ground up and started to be able to spin again (not as well as on the Aces, but enough to allow me to stop crying inside).  Unfortunately, I'm sort of starting back over on spinning on the synchro blades, but I think it will resolve much more quickly this time.  The left blade needs to be rotated CCW just a hair and I need to adjust my timing on the entrance for driving from the new balance point on the synchro blade up to the front for the 3-turn.  I know people can spin on dance blades (my coach does fantastic spins on any blade she puts on, for example) but my takeaway from this experience is that most of us get away with a lot of things when spinning on freestyle blades, but our technique has to really be clean and balanced to spin on dance blades. 

The left blade will get adjusted before I skate again on Sunday and then "all" I have to do is fix my technique and timing.