Top skaters with best/worst skating skills

[AgnesNitt]

I don't really agree -- he seems to be more concerned about the rinks making money. And as we have seen years later, it didn't kill the sport.

The sport may not be dead, but it's short of breath and has bad knees. It's sad to watch video of Nationals and see half empty seats.  And it's no longer on national TV. Plus some rinks cut out freestyle entirely because they can make more money with hockey. (How they expect to get coaches to teach LTS when there's no freestyle, I have no idea).

You're not from the US, am I correct? So your country's experience may be different. This is predominantly a US board, so I'm talking about US experience.

[sarahspins]

I don't really agree -- he seems to be more concerned about the rinks making money. And as we have seen years later, it didn't kill the sport.

I agree.. I began skating in the brief era where figures were no longer a requirement but many rinks still offered "patch" sessions.. 2 in the morning and one after public ended in the evening.. the rinks lost money on those sessions, and they had been for a while.... even when figures were required it was only the "serious" skaters who worked on them, which at most rinks was at most a handful of skaters.  The majority of skaters (particularly for rinks where ISI was more common) just didn't do them.  There were no more patch sessions once the rink changed ownership, and they sought ways to bring in more money, which meant pushing hockey more and more which gradually took over most of the available ice time.

So our rink is one that has cut down figure skating as much as possible to cater to hockey.. there are no evening public sessions at all any more and only two evening freestyle (45min) sessions a week, which they've been trying to take away from figure skaters unless those sessions are filled and pre-paid 3 months in advance - so far enough people have rallied to keep them, but I fear that will not last.  Our club can no longer purchase ice for test sessions during most of the year because it's already been purchased by hockey often as much as 6 months in advance... so it's just not available.  As a result our club has been having test sessions at a local arena that has a sheet of ice... the irony there is not only is the ice maintained better, but it costs less per hour as well.   I'm lucky that I can skate during the day - our morning freestyles are so crowded with high level skaters and expensive to skate on that I probably wouldn't skate at all if that's the only option I had.

[retired]

I don't really agree -- he seems to be more concerned about the rinks making money. And as we have seen years later, it didn't kill the sport.

I wasn't talking about that part, more about the ISU cocktail party requirements .

[icedancer]

What are you guys talking about?  It seems this thread has veered off in many directions - is this about figures or flow or ice-time for patch or Scott Hamilton or... what?

[sampaguita]

The sport may not be dead, but it's short of breath and has bad knees. It's sad to watch video of Nationals and see half empty seats.  And it's no longer on national TV. Plus some rinks cut out freestyle entirely because they can make more money with hockey. (How they expect to get coaches to teach LTS when there's no freestyle, I have no idea).

You're not from the US, am I correct? So your country's experience may be different. This is predominantly a US board, so I'm talking about US experience.

No, I'm  not from the US. In my country, skating is a (extremely) minority sport, so my exposure to skating has come from watching Worlds and similar competitions. I know that it has been years since the US has made it to the top of the ladies' podium. Some may argue that that was because of the loss of compulsory figures. I think that the de-emphasis on figures has resulted in lower quality skating skills in general, but then we have skaters like Patrick Chan and Kim Yu Na who did not do figures, but have excellent skating skills.

The truth is, I don't know why the US no longer dominates the field. Coaches like Frank Carroll and John Nicks are still there, and believe it or not, the US has one of the best training environments for figure skating in the world. For comparison, in Japan, rinks are PUBLIC from 10am-6pm everyday. If you're a top level skater and you're not in Nagoya (where they have the national training rink), hockey, speed skating and figure skating share the rest of the available time. There are also few rinks for the number of skaters. And yet, Japan is now producing many of the world's top skaters.

I think that it's just the natural flow of things. Singles used to be dominated by Russians, then North Americans, and now it looks like the next powerhouse is  Japan. Give it another decade and it will probably be another country.

[icedancer]

Some may argue that that was because of the loss of compulsory figures. I think that the de-emphasis on figures has resulted in lower quality skating skills in general, but then we have skaters like Patrick Chan and Kim Yu Na who did not do figures, but have excellent skating skills.

How do you know they are not doing figures?  It is quite possible that they are - I have heard that the Japanese skaters are doing figures as part of their training.

And AFAIK Kim Yu Na trains in North America - somewhere -

[sampaguita]

How do you know they are not doing figures?  It is quite possible that they are - I have heard that the Japanese skaters are doing figures as part of their training.

And AFAIK Kim Yu Na trains in North America - somewhere -

Kim Yu Na trained in Canada with Brian Orser prior to Vancouver. She mastered her 3Lz-3T there. After that she trained with Peter (?) Oppegard in LA, although I don't think she gained as much with Oppegard compared to what she learned with Orser (she changed coaches after a year).

As for the Japanese skaters -- AFAIK only Takahiko Kozuka did compulsory figures (his parents were skaters too, and he was coached by them). I'm pretty sure Yuzuru, Daisuke and Mao (especially Yuzuru) didn't do compulsory figures. I think they're required to draw patterns on ice as part of their moves training, but not requiring the same precision as compulsory figures.

How about Patrick Chan? Does anyone here know how he got those deep edges?

[jjane45]

Chan was first coached by Osborne Colson who emphasized basic skills. Must included tons of figures.

[ONskater74]

"For comparison, in Japan, rinks are PUBLIC from 10am-6pm everyday...." quote by sampaguita

= heaven.
Where I am rinks are dark and locked up. There is 5-6 hours a WEEK of public ice time per rink max. Then there is about the same rented by the local Skate Canada figure skating club, then hockey practices every day after school evening. 80% of the time the place is deserted. Ice time is over $100.00/hr and they would rather see the place empty and silent than to just open it up for skaters to practice. The rinks are all owned and run by the municipality on tax dollars. So nobody gives a damn really. A for-profit rink would be looking for skaters to drop a toonie in the tin and skate for an hour...

[techskater]

Chan was first coached by Osborne Colson who emphasized basic skills. Must included tons of figures.

I was going to post this exactly as well. Mr. Colson didn't let Chan jump any "big" jumps when he was young and instead made him learn figures.

Also, Kim was taught figures in her native South Korean.  She had full compliment of her elements before going to Canada.

[sampaguita]

"For comparison, in Japan, rinks are PUBLIC from 10am-6pm everyday...." quote by sampaguita

= heaven.
Where I am rinks are dark and locked up. There is 5-6 hours a WEEK of public ice time per rink max. Then there is about the same rented by the local Skate Canada figure skating club, then hockey practices every day after school evening. 80% of the time the place is deserted. Ice time is over $100.00/hr and they would rather see the place empty and silent than to just open it up for skaters to practice. The rinks are all owned and run by the municipality on tax dollars. So nobody gives a damn really. A for-profit rink would be looking for skaters to drop a toonie in the tin and skate for an hour...

I actually prefer public sessions to freestyle sessions, especially since they were less expensive on a per hour basis! But I can understand how this can be a pain for top-level skaters.

But this is interesting about Canada. When I visited Canada, I was surprised at the number of rinks (is hockey the national sport?), and how many people actually learn to skate when they're young (like the way every girl takes ballet or every boy takes basketball at some point in their lives).

  I was going to post this exactly as well. Mr. Colson didn't let Chan jump any "big" jumps when he was young and instead made him learn figures.

Also, Kim was taught figures in her native South Korean.  She had full compliment of her elements before going to Canada.

Ah, that explains it. Didn't know Kim did figures. Where did you hear/read this, techskater?

[platyhiker]

is hockey the national sport?

It's more like hockey is the national RELIGION!     Hockey is HUGE in Canada.  I went to college in upstate New York, and a lot (2/3?) of the hockey team was Canadian.  In fact, at the start of every game, both the Canadian and USA national anthems were sung.  I thought the Canadian national anthem sounds really nice, and is much more singable then the USA one.

[ONskater74]

religion is too mild a term.....

Rink time is crowded with runny nosed NHL wanna be's in full hockey gear who can hardly stand up. They run around the rink blindly falling all over in front of you, crashing into you, hockey stick in hand, pretending they are Wayne Gretzky or something. I have played hockey twice in my life. Hate it.

Boy's hockey, girl's hockey, men's hockey, ladies hockey, shinny, pickup hockey, seniors hockey, intramural, houseleague. ...

[amy1984]

religion is too mild a term.....

Rink time is crowded with runny nosed NHL wanna be's in full hockey gear who can hardly stand up. They run around the rink blindly falling all over in front of you, crashing into you, hockey stick in hand, pretending they are Wayne Gretzky or something. I have played hockey twice in my life. Hate it.

Boy's hockey, girl's hockey, men's hockey, ladies hockey, shinny, pickup hockey, seniors hockey, intramural, houseleague. ...

To me, the worst thing about hockey dominating the rinks in Canada is the SMELL!!!!! OMG!!! That stench could take me down. 

[techskater]

It was in a Chosun article a couple years ago when she was moving to Canada