Off-ice training of elite skaters

[sampaguita]

I thought ALL elite skaters did off-ice strength training, which includes weight training. Then I read here (http://www.goldenskate.com/2011/04/shooting-for-the-top/) that Yuzuru Hanyu didn't do off-ice training while in Sendai

In Sendai, Hanyu used to train only two hours a day on the average and he didn't do off-ice training. "I just want to focus on the training in a short time," he noted. "I have school, too. Also, I have asthma and I'm not so strong physically," he revealed.

(Or please correct me if I misunderstood the sentence.) Anyway, I learned recently that he was doing ballet classes for his off-ice training in Canada. So going back:

1. If Hanyu didn't have off-ice training, how on earth was it at all possible for him to do triple axels (which he learned in Sendai)?
2. Apparently he's not doing weight training -- I think it's because of his asthma. But are ballet classes enough for off-ice strength training? Or is weight training an essential part of any elite skater's off-ice training?
3. When did off-ice weight training universally become part of an elite skater's training? I'm pretty sure Sonja Henie didn't do weights...

[SynchKat]

When I was competing more than 20 years ago weight training was just becoming the fad.  We did ice dance so we did a lot of dance classes, aerobics, and the like.

Not sure what Yuzuru does, I can break my rule and darken the door of the gym at the club and see if he is in there.   

[techskater]

1. If Hanyu didn't have off-ice training, how on earth was it at all possible for him to do triple axels (which he learned in Sendai)?

Skating skills and tricks CAN be learned without weight/endurance training off ice.  Off ice is more to enhance the muscles and endurance than to actually learn a particular skill (unless one is taking a dance class which is typically to learn a skill that is transferable)

[hopskipjump]

I have never heard of the national skaters at our rinks doing weight training. 

Off ice is dance (usually private lessons with a dance teacher who has consulted with the coaching team), pilates, and yoga.

The only off ice at the rink is jumping rope, various jumps, some sprinting type exercises.

[jjane45]

Not sure what Yuzuru does, I can break my rule and darken the door of the gym at the club and see if he is in there. 

Please do!!!

Yuzuru Hanyu is probably an exception. Much slimmer than average elite male skaters, and with rather severe asthma and endurance issues. I trust Brian Orser's team knows what they are doing!!

[Sk8tmum]

Chan does weight training; Joannie Rochette does weight training, and, IIRC, she credited her jump gains to weight training.  It's part of the training program, not the sole component.  My guy does it ... it's part of the program, along with cardio, flexibility, resistance, etc. I would say that barring some of the ice dancers, most of the elite skaters we know include it as part of their training regime, customized for the demands of figure skating.

Chan did an interview from the Colorado training centre where he used to based out of, it may still be available on the internet; weights are part of his workout, as are a range of other activities.   Generally, at that level, you're looking at a customized program.

Hanyu is an odd duck in a lot of ways ...

[sampaguita]

  Skating skills and tricks CAN be learned without weight/endurance training off ice.  Off ice is more to enhance the muscles and endurance than to actually learn a particular skill (unless one is taking a dance class which is typically to learn a skill that is transferable)

I understand how one can learn an axel, or maybe a double toe without off-ice. But a triple axel??? and a quad toe??? Isn't superior strength needed for that?

Not sure what Yuzuru does, I can break my rule and darken the door of the gym at the club and see if he is in there.   

I envy you for being so near to his training center! Yuzu is such an enigma to me and I'd really like to see him training, up close.

I have never heard of the national skaters at our rinks doing weight training. 

Off ice is dance (usually private lessons with a dance teacher who has consulted with the coaching team), pilates, and yoga.

The only off ice at the rink is jumping rope, various jumps, some sprinting type exercises.

hopskip, if you don't mind answering, which country is this? As Sk8tmum said, most figure skaters do weight training. Perhaps it's because the national skaters in your rink are too young for weights?

[jjane45]

I understand how one can learn an axel, or maybe a double toe without off-ice. But a triple axel??? and a quad toe??? Isn't superior strength needed for that?

With translation involved, it's hard to tell what exactly does he do. Maybe 2 hours of on-ice training is not all, he just does not call the rest "off ice training".

On the other hand, skating 2 hours almost everyday does build strength on its own...

[blue111moon]

Way back in the '80s, I remember Scott Hamilton and Robin Cousins both saying that they did no off-ice training; that they believed that the only way to train to skate was by skating.  They both certainly learned more than axels and double jumps that way.

  The philosophy of training over the years has changed and now off-ice taining has become the norm.  Whether it works for everyone, and how well, is still open to debate.

[hopskipjump]

US.

[Sk8tmum]

Way back in the '80s, I remember Scott Hamilton and Robin Cousins both saying that they did no off-ice training; that they believed that the only way to train to skate was by skating.  They both certainly learned more than axels and double jumps that way.

  The philosophy of training over the years has changed and now off-ice taining has become the norm.  Whether it works for everyone, and how well, is still open to debate.

Absolutely, and what works for one skater won't work for another, as they all have their own unique physical characteristics.  Weight training can also "look" very different from skater to skater; and it certainly changes from age to age (i.e. pre-pubescent often has a recommendation against types of weight training).  Some skaters have the ability to garner enough cardio on=ice to be efficient, others need outside training.

Also, the expectations now are higher.  Back when Hamilton et al were skating, a quad jump wasn't expected at the senior levels, and, IIRC, a big triple axel was an ooo-wow. Kurt Browning landed the first quad after all ... and they sure weren't doing them in combo with triple jumps!  Spin requirements are different ... etc etc etc.  So, skaters are exploring more and more options to enhance and improve their levels and abilities, and there is more expertise now out there (IMHO) in terms of training ...

[FigureSpins]

The buzzword back in the day was "cross training" and it was activity-oriented.  Skaters did swimming, running, biking and calesthenics.  In the 1980's, ankle and wrist weights were more common than handweights, however.

Today, many off-ice coaches use light weights during workouts, gradually increasing the weight, but not to the point of being very heavy. 

Most skaters don't do heavy lifting, but Pairs are the exception and I think the higher-level dance teams would also use weights to increase strength.
This is for lifts more than any other element.

Lysacek: http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2010/02/how_evan_lycasek_got_ready_to.html

Csizny: http://www.usfsa.org/Magazine.asp?id=57&issue=32361

Hamilton (for comeback): http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20298211,00.html

As an anecdote, Michael Weiss did a great deal of weight lifting at one point in his career, which he said negatively affected his skating.  Don't forget that the skaters today MUST perform far more challenging jumps and spins to be competitive.  When the bar was raised, skaters had to change their training routines.

I think that ice was cheaper and more available when Hamilton and Orser skated.  Today, off-ice training is less expensive than on-ice and produces results more quickly and it prevents overuse injuries.  As a result, off-ice and weights are far more common now.

Most off-ice figure skating trainers do not use weights with younger skaters because it might injure their still-growing structure.

[techskater]

I understand how one can learn an axel, or maybe a double toe without off-ice. But a triple axel??? and a quad toe??? Isn't superior strength needed for that?

It depends on the skater. 

[sampaguita]

Way back in the '80s, I remember Scott Hamilton and Robin Cousins both saying that they did no off-ice training; that they believed that the only way to train to skate was by skating.  They both certainly learned more than axels and double jumps that way.

  The philosophy of training over the years has changed and now off-ice taining has become the norm.  Whether it works for everyone, and how well, is still open to debate.

Wow. Didn't know it was really possible to get big triples without off-ice training. I suppose when done properly, skating is a form of strength training as well?

As an anecdote, Michael Weiss did a great deal of weight lifting at one point in his career, which he said negatively affected his skating.

Nice trivia, FigureSpins! Did he mention why it negatively affected his skating?

[rosereedy]

I don't do weights hard core but I do P90X and that helped me come back skating after a 5 year hiatus.  I landed an axle within 3 weeks when I came back a year and a half ago.  Running messes up my skating though so I do stadiums mixed with light running, biking and fair amount of hiking. 

[treesprite]

The best off-ice training I did when I was a young skater was head stands. I skated 6 hr days when I was a teenager, and once in a while I'd get off the ice, take my skates off, and stand on my head for about 4 minutes. I know it sounds crazy (and I'm sure looked crazy), but  it helped to build focus and concentration, and my skating was always better after a head stand than before. 

[Robin]

I skate at the same club as the current US pairs champions and the men's silver medalist. I can attest to the fact that they all spend a considerable amount of time training off ice with someone who does active isolated stretching. Our rink has an emphasis on specialized off-ice training.

[icedancer]

Way back in the '80s, I remember Scott Hamilton and Robin Cousins both saying that they did no off-ice training; that they believed that the only way to train to skate was by skating.  They both certainly learned more than axels and double jumps that way.

  The philosophy of training over the years has changed and now off-ice taining has become the norm.  Whether it works for everyone, and how well, is still open to debate.

I hate to sound like a broken record but Hamilton and Robin Cousins, Orser and Boitano - they did FIGURES which was a way to build strength - and they would practice for hours a day.

I also don't think ice was cheaper back then - it was always an expensive sport.

[Robin]

I hate to sound like a broken record but Hamilton and Robin Cousins, Orser and Boitano - they did FIGURES which was a way to build strength - and they would practice for hours a day.

I also don't think ice was cheaper back then - it was always an expensive sport.

How true this is! I did figures and there is no substitute for the foundation they provide. I worked up more of a sweat on patch than I did on freestyle! And my freestyle sessions were always so much better after patch. And yes, I generally did two patches a day, but top level skaters often did 4 hours of it. If you were ever going to pass the 8th test, you needed that much! Patching, as we called it, resulted in wonderful upper body strength and control. I so miss it! These days, skaters have to go off-ice to develop a similar kind of strength. As one who skated when Brian Boitano skated, I can attest to the fact that not only were his figures incredible (I was once on the opposite patch), the cost of skating, relatively speaking, was about the same. (Although I think some coaching fees have gone through the roof--way beyond the rate of inflation. I think a lot of ego is involved--but I digress.) Skating has never been cheap. For most of its existence, figure skating had been an upper class sport. (And when people claim that figure skating is dying, well, look at the economics. But I digress again.)

[4711]

I hate to sound like a broken record but Hamilton and Robin Cousins, Orser and Boitano - they did FIGURES which was a way to build strength - and they would practice for hours a day.

I also don't think ice was cheaper back then - it was always an expensive sport.

I have Dorothee Hamill's biography on my nightstand right now: She said back then to compete was 20k, hardly cheap.
(and I am still hyperventilating....those numbers are huge)

[retired]

There's many components to off ice training.  The first part is to find someone who is very familiar with ice athletes and customizes a program.

Off ice is for:
Cardio fitness, although nothing trains skating a long program other than skating long programs,  but spin classes seem to be the best substitution
Balanced strength training/injury prevention  with weights or machines since skating itself creates muscle imbalances, quads vs hamstrings for example
Flexibility, and there's muscle training, eg abs and then there is leg flexibility of which there are all sorts of options, pilates, yoga etc
Rotation and twitch -  which can be separate from off ice jumping
Power - Plyometrics
Artistry - ballet, modern dance, jazz, etc
Mental Training

So an elite skater will do two ice sessions a day, sometimes three and then spend twice that much time in the gym.  An hour of cardio, hour of pilates, hour of ballet and hour of rotation/jumping, which could also be warm up before ice sessions and then add another hour of off ice program runthrough visualization and sports pyschology, there's a nine hour training day.  Not everyone does everything.    They'll do different things every day, eg ballet might just be twice a week. 

[Doubletoe]

Stroking exercises also build strength and stamina.  Not all strength-building has to happen off ice.