Washington, DC, area shops and sharpening

[moment of inertia]

From my extensive lurking on these forums, I know there are a handful of DC-area skaters on here, so I'm hoping someone can point me in the direction of a good place(s) to buy skates and get them sharpened.

For some background, I live in MoCo, but I do have a car and am willing to drive a reasonable distance. I am an adult skater currently learning half-jumps, and I'd like a boot/blade combo to take me through learning my single jumps. Because of my current fit issues (wide ball, narrow ankle), I suspect I need a split-width or custom boot, so I want someone who is reliably good at fitting and that will help me if the boots I buy don't work out. That said, I'd much prefer to save my money and buy stock boots if possible, so ideally I'd like a place that carries a decent selection of brands and styles that I could try on. My current skates were fitted at Kettler (although ordered online from Rainbo because Kettler did not have my skate/size combo) so I'd prefer not to go back there considering how unhappy I am with my current boots (although, to be fair, the other adult skaters I've talked to who have purchased their boots there are perfectly happy with them).

I also currently get my sharpening done at Kettler, on the recommendation of my coach and every other skater I've spoken to about sharpening. They have historically done a pretty good job, but in the 1.5-year life of my blades they have never ground down my drag pick (I noticed this the other day when inspecting my boots and it would explain why I hit it so often--is this something I need to ask them to do specifically?) and my last sharpening was terrible (after several hours of skating, I still cannot snowplow stop on my left skate at all). Again, I've never had this problem in the past and everyone else I've spoken to goes there, so maybe the guy was new, but if there is a better option I'd love to know.

[sarahspins]

Regarding the drag pick, while plenty of sources say they should, most sharpeners by default WON'T take any material off unless you ask, and even if you do ask, some will refuse to do it or not understand what you mean when you do.. so be careful with that.  Taking off just a tiny amount can make you blades feel entirely different - almost like adjusting to new blades again.  As far as your last sharpening - it may just be that they ground a deeper hollow than you are used to which is why you still can't snowplow.  Some sharpeners will try to match what you have, and others just do what they think you want if you didn't specify it.

What boots do you have now?  What size/fit issues are you having?  Sometimes the split width is more of a trial and error thing than being able to be measured/fit for it.. usually if you have a boot where the length is fine and the ball width is fine, it's just the heel that is loose, the obvious thing is to order the next pair in the same size and ball width, but with a narrower heel - I think that is how most people I know (in person) have ended up with split widths.  Most skate makers don't publish heel measurements for width, just ball, so it's really difficult to compare between brands, and test fitting skates when you need a split width isn't always easy either - you can usually tell when a heel is too wide with a new boot, but it's often hard to quantify how much too wide, and trying on narrower skates can be a problem when you have a much wider ball if just getting into the narrower skate is difficult (or painful!).

[moment of inertia]

Regarding the drag pick, while plenty of sources say they should, most sharpeners by default WON'T take any material off unless you ask, and even if you do ask, some will refuse to do it or not understand what you mean when you do.. so be careful with that.  Taking off just a tiny amount can make you blades feel entirely different - almost like adjusting to new blades again. 

Thanks for the warning. I'll try to find a good sharpener first and ask what they recommend.

As far as your last sharpening - it may just be that they ground a deeper hollow than you are used to which is why you still can't snowplow.  Some sharpeners will try to match what you have, and others just do what they think you want if you didn't specify it.

Hopefully this isn't the problem, or I'll be so mad--I verified my ROH with the guy before he sharpened, and he wrote it down on a tag that he attached to my boot. Also, the right blade was fine from the get-go, it's just the left that's giving me trouble.

What boots do you have now?  What size/fit issues are you having?

I currently have the Riedell 910 LS in a wide size. The ball of my foot fits okay (although I don't normally wear wide shoes), but the ankle is incredibly loose side-to-side (I can fit both of my thumbs, one on each side of my ankle, in my boot when it's tightly laced without difficulty) so I'm having problems with heel slippage and a general lack of edge control. I've apparently been compensating by tying my laces so tight that the tongue is developing deep vertical creases down the entire length of the tongue, and the ankle above the notch is significantly bent in, which is causing creasing at the notch and above the ankle punch-out. I tried using a couple types of ankle sleeves and padding to fill the extra space, but most of the pads were too thin to fill up the side space (seriously, it's huge) and when I tried doubling them up they slid around too much, so I've been making do without.

Most skate makers don't publish heel measurements for width, just ball, so it's really difficult to compare between brands, and test fitting skates when you need a split width isn't always easy either - you can usually tell when a heel is too wide with a new boot, but it's often hard to quantify how much too wide, and trying on narrower skates can be a problem when you have a much wider ball if just getting into the narrower skate is difficult (or painful!).

That is annoying. I've heard enough people talking about getting split-widths (on this forum and elsewhere) that I assumed the fitters had something to go on. Do you know if they're usually pretty good about returning/exchanging them if the heel still doesn't fit? I'd hate to go through that hassle and then be stuck with boots that still don't fit.

[sarahspins]

Fitters do have "something" to go on - and that's your prior pair of boots.  A good fitter will not only look at your feet but they'll look at your last pair of skates and identify any problems you were having and potential solutions. How loose the heel is in your old skates can help determine whether they'd recommend on width narrower or two (or even a completely different brand of boot).  Some may also be able to tell (by looking) how narrow your heel is compared to your ball.  Others may rely on tracing your foot and measuring the tracing and contacting the boot maker to see what they recommend.  Others may just rely on experience.

I can say that personally.. I was not my fitter who initially recommended a split width, but my coach, after I kept complaining about my heel slipping.  After not being particularly happy with what the fitter at our rink had to say about it when we suggested I needed a split width (she tried to argue us out of it, which I now realize was more that she just didn't want to order them in case they didn't fit right), I had a fitting done by someone with SP Teri (not sure who, it was a long time ago) and they agreed that a split width would work better for my feet, but because I'd recently had surgery on my ankle that custom skates were the better option since they could customize everything and add extra padding where I needed it too.  So at the time I got customs, and they worked out perfectly for me.

My feet changed a bit after having kids and as an adult I am in a split width stock boot and perfectly happy with them.. if I wasn't I'd get customs again. 

[VAsk8r]

Although I haven't been there personally, I've only heard great things about Skater's Paradise in Waldorf: http://www.skatersparadise.com/

I got my skates fitted by Jimmy (no, I don't remember his last name) at Fairfax Ice Arena, and he was great and seemed very knowledgeable. Picking up the skates once they came in was a different story, but that was partially my fault for going up there anyway even though I knew Jimmy was on vacation.

A lot of people in my area go up to Fairfax because it's so much closer than Maryland. That seems to be the other reputable place to buy skates in the DC area. But since Skater's Paradise is probably closer for you, I'd definitely go there.

[Query]

I'll reply in a private message.

[moment of inertia]

Thank you, Query and VAsk8r, for your recommendations. I'll check them out sometime in the new year and post my results!

[nataxa]

Although I haven't been there personally, I've only heard great things about Skater's Paradise in Waldorf: http://www.skatersparadise.com/

I got my skates fitted by Jimmy (no, I don't remember his last name) at Fairfax Ice Arena, and he was great and seemed very knowledgeable. Picking up the skates once they came in was a different story, but that was partially my fault for going up there anyway even though I knew Jimmy was on vacation.

A lot of people in my area go up to Fairfax because it's so much closer than Maryland. That seems to be the other reputable place to buy skates in the DC area. But since Skater's Paradise is probably closer for you, I'd definitely go there.

Plus one for Jimmy. He is a manager in Fairfax Ice Arena and knows his job. I didn't sharpen my skates there although, only bought a new ones. I heard that Olga in Reston SkateQuest is very good with sharpening, my coach prefers her but as for fitting she is not good at all. She helped me with my first pair of skates that turned out to be one size bigger then I needed and too wide.

[treesprite]

The Waldorf guy to see only works a couple days a week because he is semi-retired... you definately need an appointment to go there. I know of one person who will only go to him.

I go to Kettler - the sharpening job is always excellent. They will allow you to test the skates on the ice if there's a session going on while you are there.

The sharpening that I just got (have not skated on yet) I had done by Pete at Cabin John who is my second choice. These skates will just be used for my rink guard job at CJ after my new ones come in, so I have no need to be  nit picky when I can get them done for free there. I'll still take the new skates to Kettler for sharpening,  but these I'll continue to have Pete do (and won't have to pay for it because I work there).

Very Important:
Where ever you go, make sure you write the name of who you want specifically to sharpen your skates, and insist that no one else do it.  To not do that comes with a high risk of getting a beginner, and as a matter of example, I'll tell you this: a guard at Cabin John who was recently taught to sharpen, was instructed by Pete to ask me which skates were cheap ones then only sharpen those (which basically demonstrates that the less expensive your skates are, the more likely the sharpener will be a beginner... at least the place is using some judgement as far as ruining good skates goes).

[moment of inertia]

As an update, I ended up ordering Jackson Premieres from Kinzie's Closet. I know many skaters prefer to buy through a fitter, but it was incredibly frustrating (although not surprising) to me that most of the pro shops I talked to (Fairfax, Kettler, and Frederick) had NO adult freestyle boots to try on. Since the Jackson size charts have me exactly between sizes in length and width, trying boots on was incredibly important to me.

Jimmy at Fairfax was by far the most knowledgeable and helpful person I talked to and I would highly recommend him to anyone looking for a fitter. He was the only person who offered to order boots for me to try on (the others when asked said they probably could, but I had to ask and they could give me no estimate for how much it would cost or how long it would take). I turned Jimmy down partly because he was the first one I talked to and I was holding out hope that another pro shop would have something, and partly because I didn't want to have to drive out to Fairfax multiple times for fittings.

In the end, I was able to try on boots at Cabin John. I was somewhat shocked that the pro shop carried boots in the sizes I was looking at in the Freestyle, Competitor, and Elite. They didn't have the Premiere, but from trying a ton of boots on (the guy working there was incredibly nice, but didn't know much about fitting), I was able to pin down my Jackson size and ordered it online. Kinzie's had a great price and the boots arrived in less than a week and fit perfectly, so it all ended well.

I go to Kettler - the sharpening job is always excellent. They will allow you to test the skates on the ice if there's a session going on while you are there.

...

Very Important:
Where ever you go, make sure you write the name of who you want specifically to sharpen your skates, and insist that no one else do it.  To not do that comes with a high risk of getting a beginner, and as a matter of example, I'll tell you this: a guard at Cabin John who was recently taught to sharpen, was instructed by Pete to ask me which skates were cheap ones then only sharpen those (which basically demonstrates that the less expensive your skates are, the more likely the sharpener will be a beginner... at least the place is using some judgement as far as ruining good skates goes).

That is all very good to know. I've definitely learned my lesson about making sure the same person does the sharpening each time, since I think my bad sharpening was done by a new kid. I didn't know you could test your sharpenings at Kettler; no one has ever mentioned that before in the years I've gotten my sharpening done there and I will definitely make a point to do that in the future so I don't get any unpleasant surprises.

Thanks to everyone on your input! I really appreciate it!

[treesprite]

Today I skated for the 1st time on the fresh sharpening  that Pete did at CJ just did - he did a perfect job!

The lesson director at CJ told me Friday afternoon that Jimmy at Fairfax does her sharpenings.  She's the first person at CJ who has mentioned him to me.

[lutefisk]

I'm coming late to this thread but for sharpening I've had good results from Nick at Bowie Ice Arena.  I have no idea what radius Nick uses.  I just tell him to sharpen the blades and not make them too grabby.  He's sharpened my blades three times (I go roughly 50 to 60 hours between sharpenings) and each time has been a winner straight out of the box.  Chuck Fox, the pro shop owner, has also been recommended to me but but since Chuck is rarely in the shop when I'm skating, I've never had him work on my skates.

[Loops]

I just saw this thread- new to the forum.  I'm sure you've gotten it sorted by now, but I just wanted to put in another word for Mike Cunningham at Skaters Paradise.  I skated for ages in the DC area in the 80's and would ONLY go to him for skates and/or sharpening.  He's the guy who is now in Waldorf.  I just started skating again, and saw that he's still in business.  Even though I no longer live in the area I will be calling him for advice on skates/blades.  And if I can't find what I need in my area, I will make a special trip to see him this summer when we're stateside.   It is worth it to make an appointment to see him, I trust him infinitely- in the day he was the only person I would allow to touch my skates- he'll do a custom radius on your blades if you need/want it- did for me on my patch blades, and he'll advise you on that drag pick.  Even 25 years later I miss his sharpenings.  I don't know what he actually stocks in his store, but you can be sure that he'll get you what you need. 

I don't doubt that the people at Fairfax also know what they're doing- that's a strong club and has been for many, many years.  I used to skate at Bowie, but no-one from my day is around there now, so I can't say anything about them.  But if you're going to drive to Bowie from MoCo, then you might as well head down to Waldorf.  That's just my personal opinion though.    Good luck!

[Query]

If you go to Kettler, it is very important you get Tim Burt to personally do the sharpening. A random sharpener working there might not be very good. That might be the whole issue - if you went back and made sure Tim did the work, you might be very happy. He also manages the store at Ashburn. I've not used him, but people have said very good things about him.

Nick may still be working for Wheaton (I think), quite near to you, but the person who used to be in charge there, Chuck Fox, who was quite good, is no longer there. Someone called Kyle has taken over the store. I have no idea how good he is.

Another great person, if he is still alive (not sure), is Don Giese - but you have to work to find him, as he is mostly retired, at his home in Bowie. Last I knew, many of the area speed skaters used him, but since he has retired, only his old figure and hockey customers know he existed.

Mike Cunningham is very good at fixing problems caused by bad sharpeners. He has a copy of the official rocker profile MK used to sell, and can restore blades to that profile. And you will enjoy looking at the pictures on his walls, of skaters thanking him for his work. If you are willing to drive, and can afford his rates, he is very good. He has been the official skate sharpener at some ISU Worlds events, and someone claimed that he is scheduled to be the official figure skate sharpener at the 2014 Olympics. (Which partly just means he was willing to travel, in exchange for tickets and a rink-side seat from which he can do emergency repairs using hand tools, but ISU tries to pick someone competent.) BTW, I think Jackson and Harlick have both used him to train other boot fitters, and possibly Reidell used to, and he is very knowledgeable about that too.

[lutefisk]

"Nick may still be working for Wheaton (I think), quite near to you, but the person who used to be in charge there, Chuck Fox, who was quite good, is no longer there. Someone called Kyle has taken over the store. I have no idea how good he is."

Nick is at Bowie,

http://www.cityofbowie.org/index.aspx?NID=287

not Wheaton.  And yes, while the ownership of the pro shop at Bowie has changed (Chuck Fox sold out to new owners), the new owners have retained Nick and have invested in a new sharpening machine with better jigs and fixtures.  My last sharpening was by Nick, on the new machine, and is most satisfactory!