Falling Asleep

[Orianna2000]

Here's the problem I'm having now with my new custom Harlicks. If I lace them where I'm just pulling the slack out of the laces, they aren't tight enough. My feet clench up, because I feel like they're shifting around, same as when I wore skates that were too big. (The clenching causes cramping in my feet.) But if I lace them tighter, pulling the laces snug, within 5 to 10 minutes, my toes and feet go numb, to the point where I can't skate, because I can't feel anything.

Is there a solution?

[irenar5]

I have the same issue.  My solution has been to pull the slack and slightly tighten around the toes, a little less so around the instep.  I really tighten starting with the last eyelet before the hooks and the hooks (the top hook is tightened less).

I do need to relace once during my session, especially if I do a lot of jumps.  At that point I do not relace the eyelets, only the hooks.

It is quite an art to get it just right!  Some days are still a struggle (just like skating in general, though :-)

[platyhiker]

I find that lacing two tightly over the middle of the foot makes my feet go numb FAST.  I need to vary the amount of tightness over the foot - snug (not tight) over the toes, a little tighter over the middle the foot, tighter at second to last hole pair, quite tight on last hole pair and first two sets of hooks, a little looser on the upper hooks.

I suggest starting with your skates snug (not tight).  Skate a few laps and tighten a little bit, and then repeat as necessary.  As irenar5 said, it is an art to getting your laces just right.  I returned to skating last winter (after a 20+ year hiatus), and it took me a few weeks to figure out how exactly to best lace my skates.  (My feet have definitely changed quite a bit (wider) over the years, while my skates did not!)

[AgnesNitt]

You could also try putting in a thin insole under your existing insole. This will push your foot up into the boot, and even if you don't lace it tightly it should fit. As the book breaks in, you can take out the extra insole and change your lacing pattern.

Also, rather than pulling up on the laces, try pulling down with the laces (towards the blades). I found this helpful.

I'm surprised you say the boots are loose. If anything they should feel too tight until they break in.

I also recommend Katz Strapz for that top pair of hooks rather than using the laces.

[Orianna2000]

I've already got a set of custom Superfeet in the skates. They're pushing my feet up pretty high, which is causing a problem with my bunions, actually.

I don't lace the top two hooks, per Harlick's breaking-in instructions. With my old skates, I used elastic hair bands to secure the top two hooks, but with these skates, I haven't needed anything to keep the tongue in place. When I first laced, I just pulled the slack out over my toes and arches, then I tightened it securely at the last set of holes, to lock my heel in, then I did the speed hooks. That gave me trouble with my feet scrunching, so I assumed they were too loose and retied them, pulling the laces as tight as I could. That caused the numbness.

I suppose it's possible that Harlick stretched them too much when they made room for my insoles. But my toes still touch the ends of the boots, so I don't think that's the problem. They're definitely not as snug as my Jackson Classiques were, though. Taking those things off, you could practically hear the suction as my foot pulled loose. My new skates pull off without as much trouble. But even so, they don't feel too loose. It's only that my toes scrunched up as if they were trying to stabilize my feet within too-big skates. Could there be another cause for that?

[AgnesNitt]

Don't wait too long. Harlicks will rebuild them for you if you can justify it.

[platyhiker]

I suppose it's possible that Harlick stretched them too much when they made room for my insoles. But my toes still touch the ends of the boots, so I don't think that's the problem.

Skates can be stretched to be wider, or to be longer, or both.  (I have had the the front of my skate stretched to be wider but the same length.)  It seems likely to me that Harlick would have stretched the skate to be wider to accomodate the volume of the SuperFeet inserts, and may have left the length alone.

When I first laced, I just pulled the slack out over my toes and arches, then I tightened it securely at the last set of holes, to lock my heel in, then I did the speed hooks. That gave me trouble with my feet scrunching, so I assumed they were too loose and retied them, pulling the laces as tight as I could. That caused the numbness. 

Pulling my laces as tight as I can go makes my feet go numb.  There is a happy medium for me with my skates that I can find where my skates give me the support I need and my feet don't go numb.  But, it took some experimentation to find that what tension I need to have at each area of the skate.

To figure out what is going with your skates, I suggest lacing them up as you did when you first got the skates (not terribly tight), and then trying to figure out what part(s) of the skate, as precise as you can, feel loose.  Is there two much space around the toes?  Is the heel lifting?  Does it feel like the heel can move to side to side?  Can the toes move side to side?  How does the mid part of the foot feel?  You can probably do this experiment at home with your guards on your blades, just standing on your skates, trying different amounts of knee bend and do a bit of leaning side to side to move the position for different edges.  That should help you figure out what areas need to be tightened up.  Then try tightening those areas a SMALL amount and see how the fit feels.  Maybe do this once or twice more, and then switch to checking the fit on the ice and try adjusting the lacing more.

[Sk8tmum]

If you are lacing the Harlicks properly, so that you pull the boot properly around your foot, you should have absolutely no give in the laces; if you push your finger against them, they shouldn't move at all, they should be completely taut. If there is any give, the boot "shape" won't be correct because of the way that they build the boots... So .... hmmm.  I would touch base with Harlick .... 

[Orianna2000]

Skates can be stretched to be wider, or to be longer, or both.  (I have had the the front of my skate stretched to be wider but the same length.)  It seems likely to me that Harlick would have stretched the skate to be wider to accomodate the volume of the SuperFeet inserts, and may have left the length alone.

The plan was to stretch them vertically to make room for the inserts. I'm not sure if they also stretched them lengthwise or not. I told them my toes were pushed against the end of the boot, so they may have stretched them slightly lengthwise. But since my toes still touch the ends, they sure didn't stretch them much, if at all. It doesn't hurt now, that's all that matters to me.

To figure out what is going with your skates, I suggest lacing them up as you did when you first got the skates (not terribly tight), and then trying to figure out what part(s) of the skate, as precise as you can, feel loose.  Is there two much space around the toes?  Is the heel lifting?  Does it feel like the heel can move to side to side?  Can the toes move side to side?  How does the mid part of the foot feel?  You can probably do this experiment at home with your guards on your blades, just standing on your skates, trying different amounts of knee bend and do a bit of leaning side to side to move the position for different edges.  That should help you figure out what areas need to be tightened up.  Then try tightening those areas a SMALL amount and see how the fit feels.  Maybe do this once or twice more, and then switch to checking the fit on the ice and try adjusting the lacing more.

That's good advice, thanks. I'll try that.

If I can't find a happy medium, then I'll shoot the lady at Harlick an email and see if she has any suggestions.

[sarahspins]

If I lace them where I'm just pulling the slack out of the laces, they aren't tight enough. My feet clench up, because I feel like they're shifting around, same as when I wore skates that were too big. (The clenching causes cramping in my feet.)

Just a thought, but some of this goes away with time as you gain confidence and can relax your feet and trust your boots and blades to support you - I noticed when I switched blades last spring that my feet were all of the sudden cramping because I was trying to compensate for the slippery feeling of the new blades (going from carbon steel to stainless) by trying to "grip" with my toes inside my skates.  Obviously nothing had changed with my boots or how I was lacing my skates up to cause the cramping, I just had to make myself relax and trust my blades, and the pain stopped relatively quickly (I want to say after just a few sessions - I just needed to get used to the feeling of the new blades and stop trying to grip the ice with my feet). 

If I recall correctly, your classiques were too narrow, correct?  So comparing how those "feel" to how the harlicks feel isn't exactly a fair comparison, because you are going to feel like there is more room in them because they were built wider and there IS more room - there is supposed to be.  The heel should feel "locked in place" in a well fitting pair of skates, and the rest of the boot should feel like it's very close to the foot (part of breaking in skates is getting the leather to "mold" over the foot correctly to acheive that close feeling), but it shouldn't really be super tight anywhere else once they are broken in (before is another story, because until the leather can mold to your foot there may still be points of pressure).

Breaking in new skates is different for everyone - with my most recent pair I was basically out on the ice doing everything the first day (I had some minor sore spots, but nothing major), and they felt fine right away, but I've seen other people struggle for weeks and even into months before they are comfortable in their new skates.  I expected a longer break-in period than I had with this pair, but I think that my new skates were so similar to my old ones helped that transition go smoother - it's the first time in my life that I've gotten new skates before the old ones were totally broken down.

[Orianna2000]

Makes sense. I'll give it some time, then. It'd be a lot easier if I could skate more often. I could get them broken in! But we live 45 minutes from the rink, so getting down there is problematic. I do start up next week with a new coach, so hopefully things will get more regular again.

[sarahspins]

I feel you there.. I live 45 minutes to an hour from my rink and I make the drive 5 times a week (I go twice on wednesday so I can skate in the morning then drive back to teach in the evenings).. if you read the skating expenses thread, I spend more on gas every month than anything else relating to skating... it's a bummer.

[Orianna2000]

Wow. That's dedication!

If I could drive, I'd be able to go more often. But as it is, I have to rely on my husband, which means evenings or weekends. Another issue is that it's very difficult to find a public session that's not uber-crowded. The rink is popular and I'm glad! But with the new rules, I'm not allowed to skate during Freestyle unless I'm in a lesson, because I'm too low-level. And most of the weekday public sessions are during the afternoon. They're not too busy, which would be great, except that by the time my husband gets home from work and could we get down there, public session is over and it's now Pee-Wee Hockey, or some other non-public (usually hockey) event. Makes it difficult to get practice time in.

Hopefully we'll be able to go once or twice during the holidays, when my hubby has time off. We could pop down for an afternoon public session, which ought to be mostly empty--unless the kids who are off from school decide to hang out. In which case, there is no hope.

I wish they'd hurry up and build the rink in my suburb that they've been promising us for like, six years.

[platyhiker]

For trying to get to the weekday public sessions, you could try posting a sign at the rink to see if there is anybody who you could carpool with who attends those sessions.  (Since you can't offer to do a portion of the driving, you could offer to pay for some of the gas.)

[sampaguita]

I lace my skates tight only in the middle region, up to the 2nd hooks. For the 3rd and 4th hooks, I bend my knees, then tie the skates tight. This makes it easier to do knee bends.

Perhaps you try tying the laces too tight for the first few holes? That causes a problem for me too.

[Orianna2000]

Next time I skate, I'm going to try leaving the first few laces loose. I keep reading that Harlick customs are supposed to be laced snugly, but when I laced so the laces were snug--not even completely taut, they still had some give to them--about 10 minutes into my class, my feet were going numb. By 15 minutes in, my feet were utterly, completely, 100% asleep. I couldn't feel the ice, my feet were blocks of wood! It was terrible and I was so afraid I was going to fall over because I couldn't feel my feet.

I asked my new coach about it and she examined my skates after I took them off. She believes the problem is just that they need to be broken in. Right now the leather is very stiff, so there's no give to it. I don't entirely understand how that would lead to lack of circulation in my feet, but she seems pretty knowledgeable, so I'll trust her judgment.

Is there a position I can stand in on the ice to let some of the blood flow into my feet again? I can't quit halfway through my class to take my skates off in order to regain circulation, but I could stand to the side for a minute. I was just wondering if I held my feet a certain way, maybe it would let the blood start flowing again? Like when my arches were killing me with my too-narrow skates, I would stand with my feet bowed outward, on extreme outside edges. That took the pressure off my arches and eased the pain a little, so I could resume skating. I was hoping there would be something similar I could try to get the blood circulating.

Anyway, I'm going to try loosening the lower laces, just tightening the laces below the ankle, and see if that helps.

[sarahspins]

I asked my new coach about it and she examined my skates after I took them off. She believes the problem is just that they need to be broken in. Right now the leather is very stiff, so there's no give to it. I don't entirely understand how that would lead to lack of circulation in my feet, but she seems pretty knowledgeable, so I'll trust her judgment.

This is like what I mentioned above, until they fully mold to your feet there will be some points of pressure - if one of those points of pressure cuts off circulation or a nerve, then you'll end up losing feeling in all or part of your foot (most common is losing feeling in your big toe, which is caused by pressure on a nerve that goes over your instep), which could only be while your skates are on, or it could even extend to longer periods of numbness or tingling (and I don't mean in minutes, anything that goes away in a few hours is probably not a big deal) - if the numbness doesn't go away within a couple of hours of skating, then that's a sign of nerve inflammation, not just pressure from your skates causing a temporary problem, and if that is the case I'd both seek medical treatment (RX strength anti-inflammatories may help stop it faster) as well as try to figure out where the boots are causing too much pressure and get them punched to fix that.  If you could also have them heat molded that will expedite the breaking in process by allowing the boots to mold to your feet faster (I know you mentioned there's no one close that can do this - but it's commonly done for hockey skates, so ask around, you might be able to find someone local who can do it, even if it's not at the rink).

I don't know what you can do specifically other than to just try to move more - my feet don't bother me when I skate for myself, but I rarely stand still for more than a few seconds (usually just to blow my nose), but when I'm teaching class and often staying in a relatively small area or standing still for relatively long periods, my feet will get both cold and sometimes I get numb spots - to be honest I'm not sure if that is from the cold or just from standing still, but it is annoying.  I have Reynaud's Syndrome so the cold is the more likely suspect for me, but usually by the time I've gotten my skates off to see, I've usually walked around enough off ice or I've been busy enough gathering cones on ice after LTS that my feet stop bothering me.

As bad as you would feel leaving class - most coaches would understand, especially while you are breaking in new boots - even in lower levels a lot of kids leave the ice for a skate re-tie or a bathroom break, and it's not really a big deal.  Likewise,if you need to take a minute and skate small laps around your class area just to get moving, most coaches would probably be fine with that.

[Orianna2000]

It's my entire foot that goes numb, starting with the pinkie toe and spreading outward from there. The moment I untie my skates, the feeling starts returning and within a minute or two, my feet are fine. Now that I think about it, my left pinkie toe does hit the side of the boot in a painful way. I asked them to stretch that spot when I sent the boots back to Harlick, but then they added the Superfeet inserts, which raised my feet up, so the area they stretched is lower than where my foot is now.

I wasn't standing still much in class, as I recall. It seemed like the more I skated, the more numb my feet became.

Would wearing a gel bunion pad on my pinkie toe help with this problem? Or would it make it worse, because it would create a tighter fit within the boot? I'm concerned that the bunion pads I wear on my big toes are causing all of this, because they're rather thick. But it's too painful without them.

[AgnesNitt]

Here's the problem I'm having now with my new custom Harlicks. If I lace them where I'm just pulling the slack out of the laces, they aren't tight enough. My feet clench up, because I feel like they're shifting around, same as when I wore skates that were too big. (The clenching causes cramping in my feet.) But if I lace them tighter, pulling the laces snug, within 5 to 10 minutes, my toes and feet go numb, to the point where I can't skate, because I can't feel anything.

Is there a solution?

I thought I'd bump this because I saw a post on Yahoo about it.

http://health.yahoo.net/articles/healthcare/photos/weird-symptoms-explained#6

[Orianna2000]

Interesting. So it's not so much the blood circulation being cut off, but the nerves being compressed. Does that mean it will go away as the boots get broken in? Please tell me yes!

[sarahspins]

Interesting. So it's not so much the blood circulation being cut off, but the nerves being compressed. Does that mean it will go away as the boots get broken in? Please tell me yes!

It might, but I would suspect you are lacing them too tightly... there is a happy medium where they're snug enough that your feet feel secure but they're not so tight that nerves are getting compressed.

[Orianna2000]

I never had this problem with any of my old skates. I used to lace them with a lacing hook, nice and snug. But then, these are a 6.5 and my other two pairs were size 7. That probably makes a difference.

[sampaguita]

I never had this problem with any of my old skates. I used to lace them with a lacing hook, nice and snug. But then, these are a 6.5 and my other two pairs were size 7. That probably makes a difference.

Definitely.