Joyfully practicing Skating

[sk8Joyful]

Created new thread from tidal drift in the weekly practice thread.  - Isk8NYC

Hi drskater, & Sierra    
Thank you! for your Kind responses "NONE was born knowing how to skate. a great many of us first stepped foot on the ice well into adulthood. Nobody looks down on newbies. Those skaters who post about their work on doubles and axels and such, are reading the beginners' posts and silently cheering them on because they really know that anyone who chooses to skate is lion-hearted, a hard worker, and incredibly determined.

If you keep at it (and you will), think of how rewarding it'll be to have a cheering section as you progress.
The first time, for instance, you land a waltz jump, we'll know what a huge accomplishment it is, since we've been reading about your skating since, for example, you started one foot glides.  Remember too, "beginner" is a pretty relative term in figure skating.  There's so much to do - that we're all learning something in some form or another."
---
Too I appreciated scootie12's comments: "Isn't it more understandable having others familiar with skating, to share your experiences with?" - YES!, more on this below.

Can I share something with you, Michael?: growing as a little Gymnast, snow-Skier, & Sprinter, with a few isolated incidents, I chose experiencing life happy & healthy, as allowed.  
Serving others in typical joyful CHEERleading-fashion  :stars I gave, & contributed, & sacrificed, but in 1999 I nearly died from a sudden Adrenal collapse,
robbing me of all energy, attention, Focus, concentration, & some eyesight: Abilities we depend on, to succeed (pretty much anywhere) & especially on the ice.  
No wonder, pro-Skaters said I should not be there, trying to learn. - However, my LOVE-affair with life knew better, thank God!
Fortunately too, I was blessed with a precious DD, and a Sweetie whose Inspirational wisdoms... proved resuscitational:
Positively-encouraging me, I began to dream again...

Unbreakable
Since age 48 for past 10 yrs., I cheered-on each skater at little Rink-competitions, plus spent my own Practice-time, helping other people get started...
During years of various body-parts healing & REnewing, I started in Group-lessons, where I progressed past adult-Beginner, & pre-alpha, into Alpha.
My eternal complaint: not enough Ice-time, sigh. One needs ICE-TIME. Yet I wanted to encourage others, so
like you "scootie12's" as a Forum-moderator,
in another forum on 8th July 2008 I started a Social-group, called "Iceskating-fun", with my OP: "Welcome!
As a developing... Iceskater, I am starting this group, for several reasons:
1. *Iceskating* is a really FUN-way to continue... Happy & Healthy
facts: "Neuroplasticity": Neuro-scientists have discovered how the human brain retains neuroplasticity (the ability to rewire itself) and
neurogenesis (creation of new neurons) during our FULL lifetime.
see here: thefreelibrary.com/SharpBrainsIntroducesFirstOnlineBrainFitnessCenter.-a0158574363 , and
especially: sharpbrains.com/blog/2008/02/26/brain-plasticity-how-learning-changes-your-brain/ - Brain Plasticity: How learning changes your brain.
And what better way to learn...than having FUN, eh?

2. Additionally, do you know that Iceskating BUILDS "bone-Mass-&-Density-&-Strength".
Bones change the slowest, but they do change, and annually. More good news?
Many studies on exercise show a gain in bone mineral density for adults of all ages.
Try weight-bearing workouts that stress bones and muscles more than your everyday life,  
like: Brisk-walking, Calisthenics, Dancing, Rope-jumping, & Tennis. - For me, it's Iceskating... & how about you? "
after reading here,  maybe more people might be interested in also Iceskating, & how we can help each other advance...
All Positive suggestions specific for this sport are Welcome... Let's have Fun! ~ Annie"
----------------------------------------------------------
This group is in its 3rd. year now; yet ---like you scootie12's posted: "Isn't it more understandable having others familiar with skating, to share your experiences with?" -
I convinced 2 people to wanna learn... Iceskating too; the others just enjoy reading... - so YES I come here, to share with other Skaters,
who do understand -from Experience- about OSE, & Lunges, & RBO-edges, or your very Accomplished   DOUBLE-AXELS Michael. :stars Congratulations!!!

Beginner-goals grew incrementally...
1. Hoping to GLIDE the length of the rink, on one push: which 7 yrs. ago, I pushed-off enough, to Glide 150ft. on my Left-foot;
while it's 30-50ft. currently.
2. Spiral: I am working on regaining my Flexability (had this 3 yrs. ago), because I want to skate a Biellmann, and others.
3. Spin: on Beginner's luck, I got almost 3 revolutions! I've been trying to repeat, missing the Sweet-spot yet.
4. Jump: one day 7 yrs. too, while skating Bunny-hops, a coach said to me: Obviously you LIKE jumping, by your grin & how high you go"
5. pair: Nightly, I pray & dream about skating... with my Sweetie, & it's our Mutual goal.

Please Forgive me the length of this post, Thank you too for this: "are there any particular moves any of you might like some more help with?  
Since I'm dabbling with some coaching, I'd love to put some new stuff online that might be helpful.  
I also have a small group of friends that skate once per week with me.  It's actually motivational, just like this thread".
Legends
Skills I continue seeking, including during tomorrow's Practice:
1. the Kinesthetic-FEEL of what we skate; do you know what I mean?
Sure, I can SEE when I'm on the Flat, as opposed to on either Edge, yet telling by FEEL... I am just beginning to sense; can we speed this awareness up?
2. I posted last year re skating faster around the rink (like can do on Swizzles, lol); but I meant Stroking...
as Neurologically the Speed of changing from one foot to the next, sometimes overwhelms me. - How, other than nutrition-wise, can I improve this?
3. as I posted in my 'Beginner Warm-UP' thread: a major reason for struggling to skate BACKwards, is at this point soo focused on how...
that can't turn around to see where I'm going, hence I'm skating blind!   Other than having a 'Spotter', Michael - how can we advance past this little challenge?
4. Since my present goals include: '10 Consecutive Waltz-jumps' (btw. I have loved skating them with 1-hand assists for the Landing), &
can jump them all day on the floor; do you think it would be OK to practice just landing on both feet? - til I can get my RBOE

Michael, you come across Thoughtful, & Supportive, plus offer insightful & Clear explanations, you make a Wonderful coach!!
I appreciate it, when other Skaters too look on the BRIGHT-side, as you 3 did in your responses. ~
Other Skaters at the rink, have told me to continue sharing, in the hopes that anyone else needful, might gain the COURAGE to also follow their dreams...
to God, EACH of us is so Belovedly :runhug precious, & He loves it! when we sincerely live as each other's Cheerleaders... so Thanks alot!

.

[scootie12]

Can I share something with you, Michael?: growing as a little Gymnast, snow-Skier, & Sprinter, with a few isolated incidents, I chose experiencing life happy & healthy, as allowed.
Serving others in typical joyful CHEERleading-fashion  :stars I gave, & contributed, & sacrificed, but in 1999 I nearly died from a sudden Adrenal collapse, robbing me of all energy, attention, Focus, concentration, & some eyesight: Abilities we depend on, to succeed (pretty much anywhere) &  especially on the ice.
No wonder, pro-Skaters said I should not be there, trying to learn. - However, my LOVE-affair with life knew better, thank God!
Fortunately too, I was blessed with a precious DD, and a Sweetie whose Inspirational wisdoms... proved resuscitational:
Positively-encouraging me, I began to dream again...

I'm glad you stuck with learning how to skate.  Never let anyone tell you otherwise if you are out there wanting to learn more 

Skills I continue seeking, include during tomorrow's Practice:
1. the Kinesthetic-FEEL of what we skate; do you know what I mean?
Sure, I can SEE when I'm on the Flat, as opposed to on either Edge, yet telling by FEEL... I am just beginning to sense; can we speed this awareness up?

I oftentimes find myself telling the same thing to adult skaters, which is trust your body.  You have the basics down, and you can move across the ice.  Therefore, at some point you need to trust your body and stop thinking, and start feeling.  Sure, you'll fall a few times, but eventually you'll get comfortable, and before you know it, you'll be feeling yourself on the ice.

Now, to be technical, I suggest bending a lot in the knees.  A lot of skaters think they're bending a lot, and my advice (even to myself) is if you think you're bending enough, exaggerate the feeling even more and bend as hard as you can.  You'll be amazed how having really deep movement in the knees greatly increases the feel of what you do on the ice.  I ironically told a skater to do this the other day, and she thanked me a week later.  I told her the reason she was having trouble with moving was due to her stiff legs.
And again, on a non-technical note, you just need to break free of too much thought and allow your body to move as it naturally will...this way, you'll learn the feeling of what you're doing.  Hope that makes some sense.

2. I posted last year re skating faster around the rink (like can do on Swizzles, lol); but I meant Stroking... as Neurologically the Speed of changing from one foot to the next, sometimes overwhelms me. - How, other than nutrition-wise, can I improve this?

As I said above, it's all in the knees.  If you are not bending deeply, you'll never be able to master the speed or the ability to stroke around.  Practice swizzles with a very deep knee bend.

Then, based on the direction you intend to stroke, hold an outside edge with your very bent skating leg, and hold the free leg back as if you're going to do a cross-over, but don't cross the foot...just hold it in the air and glide along a circle.  This will help you get used to the edge.

Then try a cross-over (all while keeping a nicely postured upper body).  I taught a friend cross-overs this way and he said  it was helpful to learn like that. 

So on a circle, try swizzles first, then one foot glides simulating the cross-over motion (with a very bent knee), then try a full cross over.  The key here is to be comfortable on the edges, and you can only do that with good body posture and nicely bent knees 
You'll quickly notice that the knees are probably the most important aspect to good control.

3. as I posted in my 'Beginner Warm-UP' thread: a major reason for struggling to skate BACKwards, is at this point soo focused on how...that can't turn around to see where I'm going, hence I'm skating blind!  Other than having a 'Spotter', Michael - how can we advance past this little challenge?

Good question!! Not sure of the answer though.  I would practice in a line where you know no one will bump into you.  Also, without turning your head you need to learn reference points on the ice to know how far you've traveled.  I'd also suggest going backward and just looking to your left and right as you move so you get used to the motion of looking over your shoulder.  This answer even baffles me LOL....what IS the best way to do this??

4. Since my present goals include: '10 Consecutive Waltz-jumps' (btw. I have loved skating them with 1-hand assists for the Landing), & can jump them all day on the floor; do you think it would be OK to practice just landing on both feet? - til I can get my RBOE

I think you'd be fine doing that, but sometimes doing that will create bad habits.  I would first suggest, from a standstill position, doing a waltz jump where you land backward on both feet, and upper body square.  Land this with both knees BENT well.

Once you get used to that, then try more from a standstill, but with landing on one foot.

Like a broken record I am right now, you'll succeed better with bending the knees deeply.

Michael, you come across Thoughtful, & Supportive, plus offer insightful & Clear explanations, you make a Wonderful coach!!

Many Thanks, and good luck with your skating!!

So in short, I think really exaggerating the knees will be of great benefit.  Let me know how it goes for you.  Like I say, and like my coaches used to tell me...if you think you're bending enough, bend even MORE.

If you have trouble bending a lot, I suggest lacing the top two hooks a bit looser.  What I do before I get on the ice is stand up lacing my boots.  When I get to lacing the final top hooks, I actually bend my knees a bit THEN tighten the laces on the top hooks.  This way, my foot isn't too tight in the boot, and I have room to bend.  I notice a lot of skaters lace the top part of the boot very tight...the most important areas to lace tightly are along the arch and right where the foot and ankle bone meet.  The lower hooks should be tight, and then the upper hooks can be a bit looser so you have some give in the skate when you bend.

If you have time, check out my old videos from last year on youtube.  I have a lot of stroking videos that might demonstrate some stuff I've mentioned. 

[sk8Joyful]

I'm glad you stuck with learning how to skate.  Never let anyone tell you otherwise, if you are out there wanting to learn more

Thanks! for your Encouragements Michael. - (Since 9 different Skaters didn't succeed in making me quit), I am not going to let anybody else now.  

I suggest lacing the top two hooks a bit looser, If you have trouble bending a lot.

On the LACING: yes, like you - I now "lace tightly along the arch & right where the foot and ankle bone meet.  The lower hooks tight, & then the upper hooks can be a bit looser so you have some give in the skate when you bend."

BENDING has not been a problem, as I've been told: I "bend knees just fine".
like I posted recently, up 'til 3 yrs. ago, my foot I could lay in the crook of my neck, for Flexability. - I'm want to get this back, for a Biellmann

Thank you! Michael 

[sk8Joyful]

And again, on a non-technical note, you just need to break free of too much thought and allow your body to move as it naturally will...
this way, you'll learn the feeling of what you're doing.  Hope that makes some sense.

so you are saying that any Basic-skill's Skater's body already KNOWS to move "naturally"? - did I understand this right?
ok, if that is true: why do Coaches say, that everything we do on the ice is COUNTER, to how we normally move, off-ice? -
or is that something different, from what you intended communicating?

Therefore, at some point you need to trust your body and stop thinking, and start feeling.  
Sure, you'll fall a few times, but eventually you'll get comfortable, and before you know it, you'll be feeling yourself on the ice.

since you mentioned "falls" : 2ndary to my Adrenal-disaster, Doc said: "Park yourself in a Rocking-chair, & hope you never break a bone,
for you have NO bone-density left".   oh, like that's helpful, NOT! - Well fortunately for me, I told them: I will show you pictures of me ICEskating... &
foolishly they refused to believe, until one fine day, I showed them!  

In time I fell so much on the ice, I lost count fortunately. - And yet, in these almost 60 yrs. I have NEVER broken any bone; & God willing, I won't.
Faithfully, I am doing everything to keep my body in tip-top shape, incldg. ingesting ALL Essential Macro&Trace minerals,
plus other Nutritional-factors found in youthfully-Strong & Flexible bones, which I also teach.

so at which Developmental-juncture (at what skill-level), can we safely TRUST -
it's probably NOT while learning the mechanics of whatever skill, right?

As always, giving it my best to learn to skate BACKwards, How am I to Trust my body, when
I haven't yet learned how to look BEHIND me, thus I'm sorta skating Blind...Yikes!
I've asked you this already; and I still don't get it. Forgive me, for asking twice.  

And THANKS again so much, for helping me Michael  
.

[sk8Joyful]

As I said above, it's all in the knees.  If you are not bending deeply, you'll never be able to master the speed or the ability to stroke around.  

Practice swizzles with a very deep knee bend.

Ha-ha, know what they call me at the Rink: "Swizzle-queen" LOL - for years, them's All   I could skate, maybe even blindfolded, erm
oh,
and yes, with very-deep knees. - Now, all I need is to get me some strong thighs, and my Speed should increase, lol

Then, based on the direction you intend to stroke, hold an outside edge with your very bent skating leg, and
hold the free leg back as if you're going to do a cross-over, but don't cross the foot...just hold it in the air and glide along a circle.  This will help you get used to the edge.

So you are talking about Basic... EDGE-practice, right?? - I can skate my Forward Outside Edges pretty good,
(but the Inside-edges are a mess, yet.
I was introduced to Inside-edges, 1st; when I had no clue how to synchronize my bodyparts in the right place, at the right time. I am still learning this on Insides)

Then try a cross-over (all while keeping a nicely postured upper body).  

I taught a friend cross-overs this way and he said it was helpful to learn like that.

So on a circle, try swizzles first, then one foot glides simulating the cross-over motion (with a very bent knee), then try a full cross over.  
The key here is to be comfortable on the edges, and you can only do that with good body posture and nicely bent knees 

Here at this end is your cute (    ) Square again: what do the 4 inside marks mean?

And re "keeping a nicely postured upper body": <- Already mentioned that THIS is probably my most immediate need.

re "So on a circle, try swizzles first, then one foot glides simulating the cross-over motion (with a very bent knee), then try a full cross over."
OK,
today at Practice, I will do this, and we'll see IF - or better said, how MUCH easier... those Crossovers will be. Lord, have mercy  

So in short, I think really exaggerating the knees will be of great benefit.  Let me know how it goes for you.  
Like I say, and like my coaches used to tell me...if you think you're bending enough, bend even MORE.

If you have time, check out my old videos from last year on youtube.  
I have a lot of stroking videos that might demonstrate some stuff I've mentioned.  

Reading your kind suggestions, kinda reads like a fun competent Coach next to me, while I Practice...
and you bet, I'll watch your videos...

Good question!! Not sure of the answer though.  
I would practice in a line where you know no one will bump into you.  Also,
without turning your head you need to learn reference points on the ice to know how far you've traveled.  
I'd also suggest going backward and just looking to your left and right as you move so you get used to the motion of looking over your shoulder.  

This answer even baffles me LOL....what IS the best way to do this??

Maybe I should WALK-backwards, while looking behind me ? - And
then, try to replicate this on the ice; just like we do with the Jumps, right?

I think you'd be fine doing that, but sometimes doing that will create bad habits.

I would first suggest, from a standstill position, doing a waltz jump where you land backward on both feet, and upper body square.  Land this with both knees BENT well.
Once you get used to that, then try more from a standstill, but with landing on one foot.

re "from a Standstill": you mean on the FLOOR? -or on the ICE?

Also Thank you Michael,
for (not trying to force me into a moldy mold, of 'u MUST learn..., before u can skate ...'); but rather help me experiment with moves & skills that to me are FUN...

THANKS, I really do want to make progress, faster towards my goals. Thank! you
.

[Sk8Dreams]

I hope it's alright if I reply in this thread, as it seems to be addressed to scootie.

I have a suggestion for this particular issue:

"1. the Kinesthetic-FEEL of what we skate; do you know what I mean?
Sure, I can SEE when I'm on the Flat, as opposed to on either Edge, yet telling by FEEL... I am just beginning to sense; can we speed this awareness up?"

Put your skates and guards on at home and stand in front of a mirror.  Lean to the outside edge, which you can check by looking in the mirror.  Now think about how your "skating" foot feels in the boot.  Try to feel the pressure against the outside of the foot, both along the bottom, and at the ankle.  If you don't feel it, then straighten up again to the "flat" and compare feelings, going back and forth.  When you can feel this, move up to focusing on the "skating" hip and do the same.  I believe the foot and the hip are the two places where it is easiest to feel your lean.  After you have done the outside edge, do the inside edge.  Feel the pressure of the boot against the arch of your foot.  Inside edges are easier, IMO.  Use the mirror to check your lean and go back and forth from flat to edge as much as you need.  After you are able to feel the differences at off-ice, take to the ice and try to replicate the feelings for outside and inside edges.  The mirror/check-feelings technique is also good for arm, shoulder, head, and free leg positions.

[sk8Joyful]

I hope it's alright if I reply in this thread, as it seems to be addressed to scootie.

Hi Sk8Dreams,
The beginning of the 1st. post, I Addressed to "Hi drskater, & Sierra"  
in response to their 2 very Encouraging posts, in the former Beginner's thread.

I exercised the 'invited Courage', to post in the weekly Practice-thread, and
Also I added scootie's comment, and then he responded graciously   too.

Then it got moved here; & I renamed it to reflect how I approach my Skating practices...

I have a suggestion for this particular issue:

"1. the Kinesthetic-FEEL of what we skate; do you know what I mean?
Sure, I can SEE when I'm on the Flat, as opposed to on either Edge, yet telling by FEEL... I am just beginning to sense; can we speed this awareness up?"  

Put your skates and guards on at home and stand in front of a mirror.
Lean to the outside edge, which you can check by looking in the mirror.  Now think about how your "skating" foot feels in the boot.  
Try to feel the pressure against the outside of the foot, both along the bottom, and at the ankle.
If you don't feel it, then straighten up again to the "flat" and compare feelings, going back and forth.

When you can feel this, move up to focusing on the "skating" hip and do the same.  
I believe the foot and the hip are the two places where it is easiest to feel your lean.  
After you have done the outside edge, do the inside edge.  
Feel the pressure of the boot against the arch of your foot.  Inside edges are easier, IMO.  

Use the mirror to check your lean and go back and forth from flat to edge as much as you need.  
After you are able to feel the differences at off-ice, take to the ice and try to replicate the feelings for outside and inside edges.  
The mirror/check-feelings technique is also good for arm, shoulder, head, and free leg positions.

Thank you!! - This Mirror-practice sounds really good!   and
I wonder why I hadn't thought of this already, considering I have practiced all kinds of other on-ice skills, first off-ice.
Wow- I wish I had thought of this sooner, I could have gotten further ahead. Well, doing it now is why we call it the Present

Thank you! for adding your Suggestions, again.

[sk8Joyful]

4 other Adult-skaters at the rink, are again encouraging me to think about a program saying how much FUN I'd have. - I agree, wholeheartedly.
so what about skills; how many do we need to have, as a Beginner
Skills I have now: Vision, open hips, flexability, T-start, swizzles:F+B,, slaloms, dip, hop, stroking, F-glides, F-edges: in&out, (F-xo's god help! me), snowplow stop, & enthusiasm.
Skills I want to add: more Extensions, Lunge, F-pivot, Ose, Spin-upright, Biellmann-spiral, Back-glide & edges, Waltz-jumps, Loops, Viennese Waltz & Serpentine step sequence, & T-stop; and 4 others. Um, what century is this, lol

So what kind of a program could you make of this?