POLL: Member Performance Videos

[JimStanmore]

I notice on YouTube that many people like to post videos of their performances, testing and practices.  I think it would be nice to provide an area where forum members can post videos of a performance or test session.  This area would not be for practices or run throughs, just showing off the finished product.  Many of us, especially in the lower levels, work for months (or years) and then end up skating in front of 5 - 20 people.  This will give a chance to have a bigger audience and get some much needed encouragement.  It will also be a motivator to those still considering competing.

Since this area will be closed to guests, a member can also post a video here that they might not want the YouTube community to have ready access to.  It is also possible to limit viewing to members with a certain minimum number of posts (another poll?)

So, vote and let me know your thoughts through your comments.

Jim S.

[JimStanmore]

Isk8NYC reminded me to think about age.  YouTube has many videos of skaters of all ages performing, testing and practicing.  I had originally thought in terms of displaying the videos of our members: age 16 and above.  Skaters under 18 would need to have their parent/guardian send a permission letter.  My personal challenge is that there are many proud parents in our group who would like to present their skater's skills.

What do you think?

Thanks,,
Jim S.

[scootie12]

I think this is a great idea to post the finished product.

As far as people under 18 are concerned, I figure if they are posting their programs on YouTube, then it's open to the public.  The permission letter seems a bit difficult to keep control of.  If there are skaters out there concerned with their names and such not being out on the internet for all to see, then I would suggest posting the video with any announcer voices muted out.  For example, maybe editing the video in a program where you can cut out the announcement part, or simply just remove the sound so all you hear is the part of the skater's program.

Just a suggestion in case the permission part gets complicated.

It either case, I'd love to see more skater videos online, and I love that this forum has a large skating community that shares their personal ideas, experiences, etc.

[SillyAdultSkater]

There is the option to post a video to youtube and then make it visible to a limited number of people only unfortunately this requires all involved to have a youtube account. Similar with facebook.

I think whatever you do don't spend bandwidth on it, there's enough free hosting alternatives, however, a no-guests area for this might be nice actually.

[JimStanmore]

scootie12, I starting thinking about the very thing you mentioned.  It occurred to me that many people might not want their real name connected with their forum name.  As you said , they can edit the video not to include the announcement of their name at the beginning or edit it out otherwise.  

To make this process easier for those not good at editing, I will have a hidden temporary place and can do the edits for them relatively easily.

As far as age goes, this is what we have to consider:

"Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) requires that commercial Web sites obtain verifiable parental consent before collecting personal information from a child under the age of 13. A failure to obtain such consent is an unfair and deceptive trade practice.

COPPA applies to all commercial Web sites and online services directed to children under 13 that collects personal information from children. Note that if a commercial site is directed to a general audience and the site owner or operator has actual knowledge that personal information from children is being collected, that site must comply with COPPA." (courtesy of BrickLaw)

Is a video of a fully clothed skater in a public, G-rated performance personal information?  If the child's parent/guardian posts the video that should imply consent...

[jjane45]

Would this include both competitions and shows? Solos only?

[aussieskater]

Jim, I'm not in the US so my comments might be out of line, but reading the excerpt of the COPPA Act you posted, it seems to me that your first question might be "is this [skatingforums] a commercial website"?  I don't know what the American definition of "commercial" is.

Also, the proposal as I understand it (re posting prac and comp videos) is that only registered members who are logged in would be able to view them (much like the On-Ice practice subforum is now); and I know there is a confirmation applicants have to check when they apply to join, to say they are over 16.  Therefore everyone who is posting and viewing the vids should in theory be over the magic 13, or be a responsible parent or guardian of someone who is under that age.

Might all this go some way to covering you re children under 13?

[JimStanmore]

aussieskater, thanks.  We are not considered a commercial website - we are not in the business of selling or promoting any products or services.  I think we are covered, but there are starting to be many frivolous lawsuits being filed and it is considered prudent to "do your homework."

jjane45, any finished product presented to the public.  And, you can only post your (or your child's) performance.

We will need to be careful about anything beyond singles, though.  A basic rule of photography/videography is that you have the permission of everyone in your photo/video (doesn't include crowds of spectators, usually.)  So, for example, consider a synchro team with one member being a forum member.  The posting member would have to have written permission before posting the video, just as on YouTube or anywhere else.  If one of the team says no, you are violating their rights to post it.

[chowskates]

Jim, are you suggesting that Skating Forums hosts the videos, or that members post the link after they upload to YouTube or other hosting sites?

If the latter, I just checked on YouTube, and there is also an "unlisted" option for videos. The description says:
"Unlisted" means that only people who know the link to the video can view it. The video will not appear in any of YouTube's public spaces, such as search results, your channel, or the Browse page, but the link can be shared with anyone.

I agree that the area should be made private, like the Members' Introduction area. :-)

[JimStanmore]

I would prefer to link to YouTube or another video service.  But for those that would rather not have their video on YouTube, I am thinking that we could host in here.

[SillyAdultSkater]

Is a video of a fully clothed skater in a public, G-rated performance personal information?  If the child's parent/guardian posts the video that should imply consent...

Around here, personal would mean you would be able to recognize the skater as that person meaning you'd have to see the face or it would have to be a very unique sort of thing. Given the quality of most online vids I'd worry more about copyright...
However, I know around here consent for re-publishing a kid's photo can be implied in allowing a newspaper to run a story with said photo, I don't know about elsewhere but for instance if parents used youtube and made it public and didn't switch off embedding and linking from elsewhere, maybe that would be consent? I'm really quite unsure, this is a very specific sort of thing you'd have to ask someone versed in USA law and on top of it all someone who deals with this sort of law area. On top of it all, you may not even be in the clear then. The country the skater is from may also have a thing or two to say about the whole thing.

On the other hand, it's not like the whole world wide web can see a video, it's just the members of the forum, and you'll take video's down if someone complains I presume. What's the worst thing that could happen?


PS: kinda offtopic but interesting read - http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20100921/03205611088/judge-indicates-lvrj-may-have-offered-an-implied-license-to-copy-in-righthaven-lawsuits.shtml

[isakswings]

I think this is a great idea to post the finished product.

As far as people under 18 are concerned, I figure if they are posting their programs on YouTube, then it's open to the public.  The permission letter seems a bit difficult to keep control of.  If there are skaters out there concerned with their names and such not being out on the internet for all to see, then I would suggest posting the video with any announcer voices muted out.  For example, maybe editing the video in a program where you can cut out the announcement part, or simply just remove the sound so all you hear is the part of the skater's program.

Just a suggestion in case the permission part gets complicated.

It either case, I'd love to see more skater videos online, and I love that this forum has a large skating community that shares their personal ideas, experiences, etc.

How do you edit voives out of video? I would like to do this on my daughter's videos but not sure how to do it. I was trying to avoid her name being out there, but alas, it is. We use youtube as a sort of video log for ourselves and for her coach. We like to go back and see the growth she has made. I like her coach to have access so she can review dd's programs too. Anyway, editing out her name would be nice! I've thought about making her videos private and then giving her coach permission to view... but I also have out fo state friends and family who like to see the videos too. Hmmmm...

[dak_rbb]

How do you edit voives out of video? I would like to do this on my daughter's videos but not sure how to do it. I was trying to avoid her name being out there, but alas, it is. ...

It's generally pretty simple to just trim the announcement from the beginning and end or turn the audio off or down in selected sections in any video editing application.  I do this all the time.