Good sharpener/bad sharpener

[Janie]

This is not the age old question of how often I should get my skates sharpened. My question is, what do you actually look for (feel for) to tell if your blades got a nice sharpening or not?

Whenever I see someone asking about where to get blades sharpened, I see answers that say ask the good figure skaters around the rink. But how do you actually tell for yourself after you've gotten a sharpening if it was good or not? The reason I'm asking this is because I have asked around and have been recommended to a skate shop that's 1.5 hours drive away, and one that's about 20 minutes drive. The further one is said to be "better". I've been to both now and don't know how to decide whether the further one would be worth the long drive, or if the closer one is more than good enough.

When I went to the far one, it was my very first sharpening (excluding when I bought the skates), and I'd left it far too long to be sharpened (probably over 50 hours). I could not stop to save my life when I got back on the ice, even the T-stop. The guy told me that my skates' ROH is 1/2", but I vaguely remember being told the number 7/16" when I had them sharpened when bought.

Today I went to the close one, after 28 hours of skating. The guy asked what ROH I had so I told him 1/2". When I skated afterwards, I could still snowplough stop perfectly fine! I did feel a bit more grip on the ice when skating around in general and when doing edges, but the slight scraping I feel when I do edge jumps is still there (not sure if that means I should get a deeper ROH, but that's another matter and I'll talk to my coach about that).

So, I don't know if the fact that I can still stop perfectly fine is an indication that the sharpening wasn't as good. Or if it's simply because I left it too dull the last time so couldn't adjust to the change. Or, my blades actually were 7/16", the previous guy just told me wrong accidentally, so today they got shallower when I said I wanted 1/2".

So how do you tell?

[sampaguita]

Instead of thinking which one is the best sharpening, think about which one works best for you. Personally, I prefer to be able to stop perfectly and not have my skates grab the ice too much. When you change ROH, you'll find that some aspects of your skating will be uncomfortable, but give it a few days of skating to see if you can adjust to it. In my case, my favorite sharpening was my 3rd and current one. All my sharpenings were done by different people.

[Bunny Hop]

So, I don't know if the fact that I can still stop perfectly fine is an indication that the sharpening wasn't as good.

On the contrary, in my opinion, that's the sign of a good sharpening! You SHOULD be able to stop after your blades are sharpened. I've heard people saying that not being able to stop is 'normal' after a sharpening, but it's just not true. We've had three sharpeners in a row now who have sharpened our blades so we can stop afterwards, and the blades have still held their sharpening for the normal period of ice time (c.30-40 hours).

Basically in my own and my husband's experience a good sharpening is one where you can stop afterwards, and where the sharpener doesn't take one edge completely off your blade (happened to my husband). 

[FigureSpins]

If the skater uses dull blades for too long, or changes to a deeper ROH, then they will have trouble stopping.  It has nothing to do with how well the sharpener did his/her job or how much you like them. 

There's a step in sharpening called "stoning" that some sharpeners do for skaters who are concerned about skates being "too sharp."  That's likely what Bunnyhop's sharpener does now since she/her DH have a fear of too-sharp skates. 

Bad sharpeners notch off the toepicks more than is necessary, remove too much material from the blade, flatten the rocker, shave the edges unevenly, and create dips and high/low areas on the blades.  If you have your skates sharpened without changing ROH/waiting too long and have major difficulties with skating normally, the sharpening could be the cause.

It sounds like the distant sharpener changed your ROH to a deeper one from the initial sharpening.  1/2" is typical for freestyle skating; 7/16 is for recreational skating.  It takes a period of adjustment to change ROH, which is why most people/sharpeners keep track of the blade's last setting.

Before going to the closer sharpener, you did two things differently: you were accustomed to the ROH you requested and you had the blades sharpened when they needed it, rather than waiting almost twice as long as recommended.  There was no adjustment period needed, so the skates were good for you right away.


A good sharpener records each skater's ROH so they know your preference, but it's more important for you to know the setting.  Skaters should keep track of when they last had their skates sharpened and what ROH was requested/used; in your notebook or on your cell phone is good.  I write it on the bottom of the blade plate with a permanent marker.  I also put my first initial/last name on the bottom since we drop off/pick up skates for sharpening. 

[jjane45]

It may also be just building up the comfort level with the stops!

T-stops (my only stops) after sharpening are shakier, but if I take it slowly there is no problem. And I probably did not even feel anything from my last sharpening, lol.

[FigureSpins]

T-stops (my only stops) after sharpening are shakier, but if I take it slowly there is no problem. And I probably did not even feel anything from my last sharpening, lol.

Everyone is different: t-stops are always reliable for me, before or after a sharpening.  However, I can also do snowplow stops (either foot/both feet) and tango/show stops - those are always tricky when I've let my blades get too dull.

[AgnesNitt]

If the skater uses dull blades for too long, or changes to a deeper ROH, then they will have trouble stopping.  It has nothing to do with how well the sharpener did his/her job or how much you like them. 

What FigureSpins says. That describes me.

[Janie]

Bad sharpeners notch off the toepicks more than is necessary, remove too much material from the blade, flatten the rocker, shave the edges unevenly, and create dips and high/low areas on the blades.  If you have your skates sharpened without changing ROH/waiting too long and have major difficulties with skating normally, the sharpening could be the cause.

I guess my question is how do you tell if the bad sharpener has done such things as you mentioned? By physically looking at the blade? Or just if I have difficulties skating when I haven't waited to long/changed ROH? But how do I know it's not just me losing my technique for skating for a while, you know, like having a bad day at skating.

It sounds like the distant sharpener changed your ROH to a deeper one from the initial sharpening.  1/2" is typical for freestyle skating; 7/16 is for recreational skating.  It takes a period of adjustment to change ROH, which is why most people/sharpeners keep track of the blade's last setting.

Aaargh I always have to think ROH through, but isn't 1/2" shallower then my original 7/16"? Also, I saw on one of the earlier discussions that freestyle ranges from 1/2" (low level freestyle) to 5/16" (high level freestyle), while recreational skating indoors are typically 1/2", and outdoors 7/16".

It may also be just building up the comfort level with the stops!

T-stops (my only stops) after sharpening are shakier, but if I take it slowly there is no problem. And I probably did not even feel anything from my last sharpening, lol.

I'm more comfortable with the snowplough stop, they're pretty okay (at least at the speeds I'm going at). There was definitely a difference in stopping before/after sharpening last time and this time, which I don't think is due to my skills. But then, quite likely it was because I left it way too dull last time.

[sarahspins]

I guess my question is how do you tell if the bad sharpener has done such things as you mentioned? By physically looking at the blade? Or just if I have difficulties skating when I haven't waited to long/changed ROH? But how do I know it's not just me losing my technique for skating for a while, you know, like having a bad day at skating.

I wish I had saved the old blades from my DD's skates but I had them sharpened by the rink (not my regular sharpener) and they effectively killed what life they had left (which should have been another 5-6 sharpenings)... there was a very clear "dip" about 2" back from the toe picks, which was in a really bad spot on her very short blades (there is often a slight dip just behind the picks where you don't skate on the blade anyways as the blade gets older, which is normal, and I'm not talking about that).  It made it nearly impossible for her to hold a glide, and it took her us from thinking about replacing the blades soon because they were getting old to having to do it ASAP.  Even my coach was surprised that the rink did that bad of a job on them - prior to that, and I guess depending on who actually ended up sharpening them, they were usually fine, however around the time it happened to mine, there was a whole string of skaters who had blades ruined, and now all of the coaches strongly suggest not having the rink sharpen any figure skates... it's just not worth risking a $200-500 pair of blades to save $5.

Each sharpener will be different in how they do things, how much of the fresh edge they take off stoning the blades (they should just be removing the burr caused by the grinding wheel, but I've seen some who are more aggressive) but generally what makes a "bad" sharpener are the ones who do things that truly damage your blades - an uneven grind (one edge higher than the other), ruining the spin rocker on your blade, or shaving off your drag pick.   Being "grabby" or "less grabby" after sharpening doesn't always mean much because it depends on so many factors (the ROH, your skill level, ice temp, etc). 

[FigureSpins]

I guess my question is how do you tell if the bad sharpener has done such things as you mentioned? By physically looking at the blade? Or just if I have difficulties skating when I haven't waited to long/changed ROH? But how do I know it's not just me losing my technique for skating for a while, you know, like having a bad day at skating.

The most common way to find permanent damage is that you just cannot get back to skating as you did before when nothing was supposed to be changed.  Other than that, the damage is so subtle that you'd need training to identify what exactly was done.  You might be able to spot that the hard-steel strip isn't even from front to back or one side is substantially more narrow than the other, but you'd notice it more on the ice when you couldn't change from inside to outside edge.  I would give it 2-3 hours of skating; it shouldn't take more than that if you didn't request an adjustment. 

At that point if you're having difficulties, go back to the sharpener and have them check the blades.  There are measuring tools they use that identify those problems.  BTW, that's why it's important to make sure you choose the sharpener and specify that only he/she should do the sharpening.  Sometimes well-meaning counter clerks who only have hockey blade experience will try their hand at figure blades for the first time.  They can really do some serious damage.

Aaargh I always have to think ROH through, but isn't 1/2" shallower then my original 7/16"? Also, I saw on one of the earlier discussions that freestyle ranges from 1/2" (low level freestyle) to 5/16" (high level freestyle), while recreational skating indoors are typically 1/2", and outdoors 7/16".

Some sharpeners make their own scale; there's no real standard, but all of the sharpeners I've used equate 1/2" with freestyle and 3/8" with aggressive freestyle.  Those labels/measurements seem to vary by sharpener here in the US, probably because most are self-taught.  It's their business, they can call it anything they want.

I wonder if you really did start with 7/16"?  What boots and blades do you have?

[FigureSpins]

What FigureSpins says. That describes me.

Me, too. You'll see me put on freshly-sharpened skates and stand by the wall to "dull them down" by scraping up snowpiles with the edges.

[Janie]

Okay thanks. I'll skate around a bit more and keep a "feel" out. Next sharpening, I'll make sure I get the same ROH and sharpener so I can compare for myself.

I wish I had saved the old blades from my DD's skates but I had them sharpened by the rink (not my regular sharpener) and they effectively killed what life they had left (which should have been another 5-6 sharpenings)... there was a very clear "dip" about 2" back from the toe picks, which was in a really bad spot on her very short blades (there is often a slight dip just behind the picks where you don't skate on the blade anyways as the blade gets older, which is normal, and I'm not talking about that).  It made it nearly impossible for her to hold a glide, and it took her us from thinking about replacing the blades soon because they were getting old to having to do it ASAP.  Even my coach was surprised that the rink did that bad of a job on them - prior to that, and I guess depending on who actually ended up sharpening them, they were usually fine, however around the time it happened to mine, there was a whole string of skaters who had blades ruined, and now all of the coaches strongly suggest not having the rink sharpen any figure skates... it's just not worth risking a $200-500 pair of blades to save $5.

Wow I hope I'll never have that trouble. I've been warned off our rink sharpener by fellow figure skaters too. I don't know how bad he does it, but I don't plan on finding out for myself!

I wonder if you really did start with 7/16"?  What boots and blades do you have?

I only know it's GAM. I don't remember the model . But I have the receipt at home and will hunt it down tonight and find out.

[ChristyRN]

and where the sharpener doesn't take one edge completely off your blade (happened to my husband).  

Left outside edge. Skidded off entering a spin and broke my ankle.  I kept telling my coach something wasn't right, but she didn't believe me.  After I got back on the ice (14 looooong weeks later) and still had issues, I made her look at my left blade.  Not only was the edge gone, but the rocker was too.  I might not have known a whole lot then, but I knew something wasn't right.

The worst part was that I had told the stupid kid not to sharpen, but to give them back.  He sharpened them before he brought them to me. I was so angry.

[Janie]

I wonder if you really did start with 7/16"?  What boots and blades do you have?

Found my receipt! My skates are GAM G0021 Ladies Horizon with Ultima Mark IV blades. The blades came with the boot. The person I bought them from asked me what level I was at, I said I just started taking figure skating classes and was starting on single jumps. I only vaguely remember it being 7/16". I don't think I could come up with such a number otherwise. But I could be wrong.

[FigureSpins]

I just read that 7/16" is the default ROH for Ultima Mark IV blades.  I always had my DDs' blades sharpened right away at 1/2" since that's pretty standard for freestyle skating. 

They never really noticed the difference the way you did.  1/2"=8/16" - that's only 1/16" different from 7/16".

My guess would be that the initial sharpening was 5/8" (aka: 10/16").  Maybe the sharpener mentioned the 7/16" as the default, but recommended the 5/8"?  5/8" is a more shallow setting than 1/2" and commonly used for recreational skaters.  You would feel the difference between those two settings if the blades were resharpened. 

I know I feel the difference between my patch skates (1" ROH) and my freestyle boots (3/8") - I slide sideways on the patch skates if I don't pay attention, then the freestyle boots feel very grippy on the ice afterwards.

[Janie]

I'm certain I only got told one number, but it could totally not e 7/16". I may have just seen this number on the internet somewhere. I don't know if the reason I couldn't stop at all when I first got my blades sharpened was due to changing ROH. It could be just because I left it too long! But anyway, I'll stick with 1/2" for now and see what it feels like next time I get them sharpened. Thanks for all your advice!