Determining Blade Alignment

[Orianna2000]

Can blade alignment be determined off-ice? Or do you need to actually skate for your coach to be able to tell if the blades are mounted correctly?

I ask because my new skates are being sent with temporary mountings, and my coach doesn't know how to check the blade alignment. Our skating director offered to take a look, but the only free time she has is during the zamboni run. Which means we can't use the ice. So I'm really curious how she's planning to determine the alignment of my blades. Can it be done sitting or standing off-ice?

I wish I'd saved myself the trouble and just asked for a permanent mounting. But what's done is done. The rink's manager is capable of mounting the blades, or so I'm told. I just need to get someone to verify the alignment first.

[Skittl1321]

You can determine the alignment to the boot is straight off ice by looking.  To know whether that works for you, that needs to be done on ice.  My coach always had me skate straightlines on flats, one foot glides, and them checked I could get all my edges well.


You cam skate safely on temp mounts for awhile. My fitter told me no flying spins or double jumps. Even when you permanently mount, don't use ALL the holes. Save a few for your next pair of blades.

[sarahspins]

First off, you (and anyone else out there) are totally capable of adjusting the alignment yourself, and adding your permanent screws - there is really nothing special required, other than the screws and a screwdriver.  Just be careful not to over tighten the screws if you are adjusting.

Second, you can get the alignment pretty close off ice... wearing them at home with guards on you can immediately tell if your foot is falling to one side or the other when you stand on one foot, and you can adjust the blade accordingly.  When I've done this, I've only needed very minor adjustments after trying them on the ice.

You can also just wait until you skate and go by how they feel on the ice - if you find it hard to hold an inside or outside edge, or skate on a flat (both edges), or feel that your blade is scraping when you are trying to skate forward on one foot (or backwards on one foot), then that's usually a sign that they need to be moved... but be careful because a tiny movement can make a HUGE difference in how your blades feel... don't move them more than about 1/2mm at a time.

You could get lucky and they're already where you need them - don't assume that you'll have to move them.

Also, if you do need to move a blade over more than the adjustment slot allows, that's not the end of the world either, the holes can be plugged and the blade can be re-mounted just to the side of the original holes - yes, it's less than ideal, but it won't make much difference overall. 

You can take your time in deciding to get them permanently mounted too - you're not in a hurry since you're not jumping.  So if they don't feel right, don't rush it - waiting won't hurt anything, but putting in those extra screws when they're not right will cause problems later on.

[Orianna2000]

With mounting the blades, the skate shop said it was VERY IMPORTANT that a layer of silicon be added between the blade and the sole, to prevent water from rotting the screws out. I know not everyone does this step, but they really stressed how vital it was. I don't even know whether the silicone is a strip of gel that gets sandwiched between blade and sole, or if it's a liquid that get squirted under there and then hardens, or what. So I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that myself. I just hope the guy who's doing the mounting knows how to do it!

Determining alignment is going to be tricky for me, since I already have trouble holding my edges. We don't know if it's because of uncorrected flat feet, or poor balance, or because my last pair of blades were defective, but either way, I can't hold an edge for more than a few seconds. If they remembered to include them, I bought a pair of custom Superfeet insoles that were molded to my feet, which the fitter said would correct my prolapse. (Is that the right word? Where your feet are flat, so they fall to the inside? Sorry, my brain's not working this morning.) So I have to get used to the new insoles, as well as new skates, new blades, new everything!

I'm not sure my guards will fit, since they're adjusted for size 7 skates and the fitter said I'm actually size 6.5. If the guards don't fit, it may be hard to determine the alignment by standing on them at home, but I'll give it a shot.

What do you mean, if you "feel that your blade is scraping when you are trying to skate forward on one foot"? Scraping how? The toe-picks?

I'm glad that I'll have plenty of time to determine whether I want to adjust the blades or not. It may take awhile to figure that out and I'd rather not feel pressured to hurry up and decide.

Thanks for the advice. I will save these posts and keep them for future reference, if you don't mind.

[taka]

Not sure about the silicone - not come across that as no-one seems to do that in my area!

Once you are in your skates (complete with superfeet) you should hopefully feel quite balanced just standing in them... not obviously falling to the inside or outside. If so try them on the ice. Once you feel comfortable on 2 feet try just gliding along in a straight line with both feet parallel on the ice then try lifting one foot a little. You should just continue in the same straight line and not fall to the inside or outside. I'd try a few inside and outside edges the same way too. If you fall too much to the inside or outside instead of continuing the direction you were travelling they may need to be adjusted.

If you pronate (ie fall to the inside without insole correction) that may well be why you have been having problems holding edges in your old skates! Your edges may be better in your new skates as your foot will be in a more neutral position (neither falling in or outwards) thanks to your new insoles. It may take a little time to get used to that feeling so don't rush it. If you are still having problems then you may need to adjust your blades too.

I think the blade scraping noise happens when you are trying to go one direction but your blade wants to go a slighly different way. It makes a scraping noise as you force it in the direction you want to go. It isn't the toepicks - more from the bit of blade in contact with the ice as it is being forced across it. My skating is never super quiet  but it was really obviously noisy when my blades were 1st temp mounted to my current boots. 1 tiny adjustment later and they were a LOT quieter!

The blade guards may not be a problem - different boot brands will need different lengths of blade for the same size boot. If they are too long they can be trimmed (carefully!!) at home with a sharp stanley knife or hacksaw depending on what they are made of...

Good luck and enjoy your new skates when they arrive!

[sarahspins]

With mounting the blades, the skate shop said it was VERY IMPORTANT that a layer of silicon be added between the blade and the sole, to prevent water from rotting the screws out. I know not everyone does this step, but they really stressed how vital it was. I don't even know whether the silicone is a strip of gel that gets sandwiched between blade and sole, or if it's a liquid that get squirted under there and then hardens, or what. So I wouldn't feel comfortable doing that myself. I just hope the guy who's doing the mounting knows how to do it!

It's simply silicone caulking and it's not really necessary... if you were on the ice many hours a day and didn't always dry off your skates well, maybe it could help prevent some water damage, but it's not as vital as they're making it seem.. as long as your soles are waterproofed that is enough.  Drying your boots off well after skating will honestly do more to protect the soles than any amount of silicone will.

Determining alignment is going to be tricky for me, since I already have trouble holding my edges. We don't know if it's because of uncorrected flat feet, or poor balance, or because my last pair of blades were defective, but either way, I can't hold an edge for more than a few seconds.

I think it's likely a combination of all of those.. with your feet better supported (and in boots that fit!) you will probably find it much easier.. my daughter couldn't do one foot glides to save her life until I replaced (and repositioned) the blades on her skates.  She pronates as well and the blades on her boots were mounted too far to the outside for her (using every screw hole possible, so I couldn't simply move them over without going through the process of plugging and remounting them, and her blades were nearing the end of their lifespan so she just got new ones).

I'm not sure my guards will fit, since they're adjusted for size 7 skates and the fitter said I'm actually size 6.5. If the guards don't fit, it may be hard to determine the alignment by standing on them at home, but I'll give it a shot.

Are these two piece guards?  If they do happen to be too long you can take them apart and trim them with a utility knife.  Usually they are sized so that the 1/4" difference between blade size between two sizes of boots won't be a problem.  Your blades may even be the same size between the old and the new.. I think soles on Jacksons run a little shorter than similar sizes from Harlick (my 6 1/2 jacksons have 9 1/2" blades for example, but the 6 1/2 Harlicks that I bought for the blades they had were 9 3/4") even though the sizing of the boot is pretty close.

What do you mean, if you "feel that your blade is scraping when you are trying to skate forward on one foot"? Scraping how? The toe-picks?

Not toe picks.. if your toe and heel aren't in alignment with for your foot (say the ball is too far out and the heel too far in), you can usually tell because the blade actually scrapes the ice a tiny bit (like a snowplow stop) without you trying to do it.. it's really hard to hold a clean edge (and you will hear it more than feel it).  You may not feel like you are falling to one side or the other if that happens, because both adjustments can sometimes cancel each other out.

[Orianna2000]

In that case, I won't pester the guy to use the silicone. If he does it on his own, great. If not, I won't stress over it. And if the blades are fine as-is, then perhaps I can do the permanent mounting myself. I know there's a thread about what screws to use, so I'll check that out.

They promised to sharpen the blades before shipping them, but he didn't ask what ROH I wanted. (He sounded like he was in a big hurry and I was already nervous because of my phone phobia, so I didn't ask.) Hopefully it will be a good ROH. Not that I'd be able to tell the difference. If something feels "off", I won't have a clue whether it's the ROH, or the rocker, or the insoles, or what.

I get what you're saying about the blades scraping now. I wonder if that's what happened to my husband? He got new skates awhile back (hockey skates, not figure) and the first few times he skated, they made this awful scraping sound. It was quite loud and we had no idea what was causing it. After the pro-shop guy tightened one of his blades, the sound diminished. I don't know if it still scrapes or not, I haven't been skating with him in a long time, but maybe it's because the blades were a little loose and therefore weren't aligned properly.

[Skittl1321]

If it makes you feel better, I've used 5 sharpeners and none have ever asked me what ROH I want. All went by my skill level description.  I asume you told them that when determining boot stiffness.

[Orianna2000]

True, but that was three months ago. Would he remember something like that? If it was me, I'd be more likely to think: Custom Harlick Skates = Advanced Skater. Hopefully, though, he looked up my file and saw the details of my order and realized I was a beginner. I have no way of knowing, so it doesn't really matter, I guess.

[Orianna2000]

Is it normal for there to only be two screws holding the blade on? (Two up front and two at the heel, that is.) The front end of the blade has a good sized gap between it and the sole of the boot. Plenty of space for water or, say, a finger. . . .

[Skittl1321]

That number of screws sounds like a temp mount.

A finger sized gap sounds too big, but gaps can happen.  You need a coach to look at them or at least post pictures

[sarahspins]

Is it normal for there to only be two screws holding the blade on? (Two up front and two at the heel, that is.) The front end of the blade has a good sized gap between it and the sole of the boot. Plenty of space for water or, say, a finger. . . .

Yep, that's your standard temporary mount.. there should be screws in every slotted hole (that's how you adjust the position).  Permanent mounting usually only adds 3 on each foot (2 at the sole, one on the heel).

A gap may be normal... depending on how big of a gap it is. 

[Orianna2000]

It's not quite large enough for my finger to fit, but it is pretty big. I'll try to take pictures tomorrow and post them. I'm sure it's fine, though.

[sarahspins]

I've personally seen up to about 1/8"... some fitters/pro shops like to sand down soles so they match the blades "perfectly" but I'm not convinced it makes a huge difference in the end.

[Sk8tmum]

having the blades fit flat can be important: it keeps moisture out, and it also prevents wiggling which can loosen screws (think of pressing two pieces of metal together, you can't rock them apart as easily as if there's a gap which gives you leverage). My other concern is if the blade plate is not lying flat against the sole of the boot, is the blade itself twisted, or is the boot made on an angle? They should both be flat where attached, perfectly horizontal to the ground, and the blade stanchions should be at a 90-degree angle to the blade plate.  If there's something that's off then, that would affect balance.

You say your skating director has offered to check the blade alignment. I would take her up on the offer. Yes, you can check off-ice: not as well as on-ice, but, it can be done. Also, she can tell you if the gap is worrisome or not.

[Orianna2000]

Here's a picture of the blade gap. It looks like maybe the boot sole is angled, so it doesn't lie flush against the base of the blade. Perhaps just adding screws will help?


(See larger photo here.)

It seems like maybe the gap got smaller after I skated in them this evening, but it's hard to say.

[sarahspins]

It seems like maybe the gap got smaller after I skated in them this evening, but it's hard to say.

I would bet that it did.. the SP Teri's I attempted to break in last year looked like that at first, but after skating in them for 2 weeks the gap was pretty much gone - the boots usually do "settle in" some and adding the permament screw at the toe usually gets the rest of any gap.

[Orianna2000]

That's good to know. I'll try and test the alignment of the blades the next time I go skating. Didn't remember to last night, I was so stressed and anxious about wearing the skates for the first time.