Heat-molding Figure Skates

[Isk8NYC]

Found a few sources for DIY heat-molding instructions and thought it would be useful.

iskateriedell: http://www.iskateriedell.com/2011/heat-up-your-skating/

Rainbosports: http://www.shoprainbo.com/policies/heatmolding.cfm

Sharperedgeskates: http://www.sharperedgeskates.com/diforhemoris.html

icemom.net - hairdryer molding: http://icemom.net/2010/04/how-to-heat-mold-figure-skating-boots-at-home.html

Jackson video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhZLOEw7o5Q

Very interesting - he leaves the lace aglets outside the oven and shows the inner plastic pieces that heat-soften to effect molding.  I didn't know there was a plastic strip at the heel - maybe heating that spot and clamping it could tighten a loose heel cup?

[aussieskater]

Thanks for the link Isk8NYC - fab video and proof that Jackson skates can go into a normal convection oven; laces, blades, the works.  Re the aglets being left outside the oven - I think only one was left outside; the other shorter lace end went right into the oven.
 
That heat moldable heel counter is excellent.  You can indeed use it to close heels in - I had that done to mine.  Worked a treat, but 18 months in, I'm slipping a bit so I probably need to redo it.

[Query]

Note he says not to put the insole in the oven.

Even without heat, It must be so nice to work with pro grade bench tools. Look at those beautiful boot presses he has in the background.

A suggestion: if you use your own oven, use a candy thermometer to check the temperature, and measure at the hottest part of the temperature cycling. Cooking ovens are often off by 25 degrees F or more. And remember - boot manufacturers don't expect you to leave the boots in the oven at their specified temperature forever - just long enough to reach the required degree of softness. So if some boot maker says to use 200 degrees for 5 minutes, that does not mean you can use a hair dryer or heat gun to take it all the way to 200 degrees. You could destroy your boots.

[Isk8NYC]

if you use your own oven, use a candy thermometer to check the temperature

A candy thermometer measures liquid temperature, an oven thermometer measures the oven's overall temperature.  Use a convection oven with a fan because that eliminates uneven heat areas inside the oven.

[Sk8tmum]

Could we make this one a "sticky" as it's a topic that pops up a lot, and there's very good resource material here?

[Isk8NYC]

Could we make this one a "sticky" as it's a topic that pops up a lot, and there's very good resource material here?

I'll add a note to our skate maintenance sticky, but to be honest, stickies get out of hand real quickly.  A lot of people feel that even one sticky is too many.

The "search" feature helps with locating relevant topics.

[Query]

A candy thermometer measures liquid temperature, an oven thermometer measures the oven's overall temperature.  Use a convection oven with a fan because that eliminates uneven heat areas inside the oven.

Few skaters buy the fancy calibrated convection oven just to mold one pair of boots. The video is aimed at dealers who can afford the real thing. The rest of us have to make do with poorly calibrated cooking ovens that vary substantially in temperature over the cooking cycle, or like me, with a hair dryer, or, like some people, with a heat gun.

Yes, oven thermometers are better for ovens.

For the spot or uneven molding you get from a hair drier or heat gun, you want the thermometer to measure temperature at a small spot (e.g., the bulb of the candy thermometer), that can be placed next to what you are heating. Candy thermometers (like oven thermometers) are cheap and available in dollar stores and supermarkets - and temperature is temperature, independent of the material measured.

An experienced expert might not bother with a thermometer, but would do it all by feel, as the Jackson video shows.

[Query]

Actually, let me change my mind. This isn't a "thermal equilibrium" problem - the air temperature, boot surface temperature, and the mold-able gel (or whatever) temperature are all different, so the way you measure the temperature matters.

AFAIK, Jackson doesn't give instructions on the temperature the boot (or more specifically, the molded gel or whatever within the boot) should reach, although that is what matters. They give instructions on what temperature the air of a hockey-style convection oven should reach, and how long the boots should stay in that oven, in order to get the molded gel to the desired temperature.

Without the fancy professional oven, maybe the best we can do is guess by feel. Doing it that way, it makes sense to play it a little safe - you want it hot enough to just start to be mold-able, but no hotter. What the thermometer can do is tell you if it gets way too hot. I.E., the stated oven temperature is too hot for the surface of the boot to reach - but by then, the boot may already be damaged.

If the boot maker provides the name of a pro who can do the work, that's likely the safest best, because if something goes wrong, as it may, they will probably warranty it. It doesn't matter whether the pro is a "figure skating pro shop", a hockey or roller skate shop, a ski shop, or a housewife who works out of her basement using a heat gun - a competent pro is a competent pro, and the boot companies all make a point of figuring out who they trust to do good work on their boots. AFAIK, all the reputable boot makers will make good on problems their recommended pros create, or the pro likely will - though you can ask ahead of time.

P.S. Before someone complains, when I say a competent pro is a competent pro, I assume that your boot maker recommends them.

[xoxo_tw]

Hi !
In the beginning of the Jackson video he shows how they can be heated up and the Heel can be adjusted.
  Is that a feature of the Gam Podiums too ?   as mine are slipping a little in the heel area I was thinking of giving it a try,,, good idea ?

[AgnesNitt]

Sadly, I have repeatedly had my heels adjusted when they began to slip. This was in Jackson Competitors. Totally worthless for me. If it works for you, I'm happy for you. Just beware, it may not last.
However, silipos gel sleeve over the heel, absolutely reliable and performs perfectly.

[sarahspins]

Jackson didn't start putting heat molding material in their heels until just a few years ago - if your boots were older than that, it wouldn't have done any good to try to squeeze in the heels.

I find that my boots need it done about every 6 months or so, but I also pronate very badly on my right side, and even with a wedge correction it still distorts the boot some over time, and that side tends to loosen up more anyways.

[WaltzJump413]

Has anyone had experience with having the heels squeezed in on their Riedells? I'm thinking of having mine done (they do heat molding at my rink).

[xoxo_tw]

Ohh well I had a try...  I placed the boots in oven at around 93 degress C.    when i took them out i placed this tool around the heel that pressed it tighter.  Let it cool.

Yeah it sat tight..  after a lot of pushining I got all my foot down, even the heel was alot tighter now felt better.   While skating around it still slipped quiet easily...  so kinda back to square one.   

DOnt know whats wrong with my feet.    Like,  they kinda V shaped,  if my heel is 1"   my ball is 3" /   maybe i should try another boot brand ?

[AgnesNitt]

Jackson didn't start putting heat molding material in their heels until just a few years ago - if your boots were older than that, it wouldn't have done any good to try to squeeze in the heels.

I find that my boots need it done about every 6 months or so, but I also pronate very badly on my right side, and even with a wedge correction it still distorts the boot some over time, and that side tends to loosen up more anyways.

Yes. that's a relevant point, but my boots are heat moldable.

[WaltzJump413]

DOnt know whats wrong with my feet.    Like,  they kinda V shaped,  if my heel is 1"   my ball is 3" /   maybe i should try another boot brand ?

From what I've heard (since I have kind of weird feet, very wide in the front and I had trouble finding good skates) you might  need a split width (you can get that in custom).

[dlbritton]

I just got heat-moldable Riedell's but I assume the heat molding is just for the foam liner inside the boot which would mainly adjust for being tight and /or conform to the shape of your foot to relieve pressure points. Is it possible to press in the leather , such as at the heel area, if they are loose there? 

[AgnesNitt]

I just got heat-moldable Riedell's but I assume the heat molding is just for the foam liner inside the boot which would mainly adjust for being tight and /or conform to the shape of your foot to relieve pressure points. Is it possible to press in the leather , such as at the heel area, if they are loose there?

If I interpret your question correctly, then you seem to have the wrong idea on how heat moldable  skates are made. I've never heard of the foam being heat moldable, but anything's possible. 

I assume Reidells are the same as Jacksons. In Jackson's there's a heat moldable plastic sheet between the outer leather and the inner leather. That plastic is heat moldable. So the answer is yes its possible to heat mold any spot in the skate where the plastic insert is between the outer and inner leather layers.

[AgnesNitt]

From what I've heard (since I have kind of weird feet, very wide in the front and I had trouble finding good skates) you might  need a split width (you can get that in custom).

I'd like to add something to WaltzJumps comment. If you order customs, once you receive them make sure they are actually custom fitted to your order. Do not accept 'close enough'. I have heard reports from two skaters who believed they were just handed stock sizes 'close' to their custom order. One was a coach.

If the skates are not satisfactory, then send them back. But you have to do that immediately. You should retain a copy of your order, including a copy of any outline of your feet and the measurements. If the outline of your feet does not reasonably match the insole, then be very cautious.

I would like to point out, that I was out a $1000 for customs when I started skating. I ordered 'for figures', I was sent skates stiff enough for doubles. I can't skate in them because they were so ill fitting they tore a toenail in half after I skated in them for a while. I didn't know enough then, now I know.

[dlbritton]

If I interpret your question correctly, then you seem to have the wrong idea on how heat moldable  skates are made. I've never heard of the foam being heat moldable, but anything's possible. 

I assume Reidells are the same as Jacksons. In Jackson's there's a heat moldable plastic sheet between the outer leather and the inner leather. That plastic is heat moldable. So the answer is yes its possible to heat mold any spot in the skate where the plastic insert is between the outer and inner leather layers.

I was basing my comment on ski boot technology where the liner is made of heat moldable foam in some boots. Since my Riedells have a foam liner in the heel area I assumed that was the heat moldable part. It is good to know how skate heat molding works.

My boots are stock Riedell 255 TS in a Wide width due to the width of the ball of my foot. I did not want to go the custom boot / split width route since this is my first pair of boots and (I don't believe) my feet are not drastically out of the norm. I was able to try the boots on and did not detect any heel slippage during fitting before purchasing them. Since I have started skating in them I feel like I can lessen the pressure on my heel but my heel doesn't actually lift up. If I dig in the toe pick and strain to raise my heel it feels like I can lift it a little. Part of this could be from breaking them in. I still have problems keeping them tied tightly for an hour session.

[Loops]

I've been following this thread with interest, and have a few questions.

1) what is "heel squeezing"?  I gather it's tightening the heel, but how exactly is that done- like stretching the ball, but inverse? (i.e. they put it in the solution, than put the pressure outside to make it narrower, as opposed to applying pressure on the inside)  Or is this something done via the heat molding route (i.e. in the oven, then squeezed in a press)?

2) How often do you need to re-do the heat molding?  I imagine this is going to vary by skater, and that's OK.  I was  under the impression that it was more or less a one shot deal, then as one skates, the leather will also form to the foot.

Thanks!

[xoxo_tw]

I've been following this thread with interest, and have a few questions.

1) what is "heel squeezing"?  I gather it's tightening the heel, but how exactly is that done- like stretching the ball, but inverse? (i.e. they put it in the solution, than put the pressure outside to make it narrower, as opposed to applying pressure on the inside)  Or is this something done via the heat molding route (i.e. in the oven, then squeezed in a press)?

2) How often do you need to re-do the heat molding?  I imagine this is going to vary by skater, and that's OK.  I was  under the impression that it was more or less a one shot deal, then as one skates, the leather will also form to the foot.

Thanks!

As long as the boots you mold have plastic pieces inside, they will stay put forever I guess.

If there's no moldable plastic pieces inside the boots, the mold wont last that long and you have to re-mold them frequently.

[dlbritton]

I've been following this thread with interest, and have a few questions.

2) How often do you need to re-do the heat molding?  I imagine this is going to vary by skater, and that's OK.  I was  under the impression that it was more or less a one shot deal, then as one skates, the leather will also form to the foot.

Thanks!

I was told by Riedell that boots can be heat molded multiple times. Not sure if there is a limit on the actual number of times. I would assume the molding holds "forever" but can be redone if your foot changes shape.
I was also told that boots could be returned even after being heat molded . This came up when I was trying on the boots for fit.

[AgnesNitt]

I was told by Riedell that boots can be heat molded multiple times. Not sure if there is a limit on the actual number of times. I would assume the molding holds "forever" but can be redone if your foot changes shape.
I was also told that boots could be returned even after being heat molded . This came up when I was trying on the boots for fit.

My experience with heat molding has been that the boots appear to return to their original shape. If you're lucky in the forefoot, you're able to break it in (I never was and had to cut them). The heel 'squeezing' never lasted past one time on ice. I repeatedly had them remolded (wider forefoot, narrower heel) then gave up and went with a gel sleeve for the heel and cut the forefeet to let the leather spread.

[Sk8tmum]

My girls both wear heat molded riedells. They have never needed them remolded... My older daughter is in year 3 in the 1500s.  She skates between 6 to 8 hours a week... Her coaching skates are 6 years old (gold stars) and just the one molding. But apparently both girls have riedell feet as it were. We do get split width... A/AAA for the one.

[sarahspins]

I would assume the molding holds "forever" but can be redone if your foot changes shape.

It should, but there are other factors in play that may allow the heat molding job to loosen up.  As an employee I tend to leave my skates at the rink, but any time I have my skates in my car in the summer I can almost guarantee that they get warm enough to cause problems with the heat molding - I think that just having them warm up even without touching them allows that molding material to "relax" a little, which can change the shape of the prior heat molding.  Putting your skates on "warm" and then skating in them will also cause it to loosen - sometimes significantly.

Then there's the other issue of if you are relying on the heat molding to help support a functional problem with your foot or ankle, it will be subjected to more stress than normal, and that constant deflection will change the shape of the plastic layer over time... this is why even though my pronation is corrected with a wedge in each boot (and added arch support), there's still more pressure on that side of my boot than normal, and my boots both still twist a little bit, and the heel counter also opens up a little in the process.  Heat molding can kind of restore the shape of the boot, but I reach a point where it just doesn't work as well any more since the rest of the materials in the boot have softened over time, and it's time for a new pair.

I think there are some brands where the "heat molding" is really more of a gel or foam layer that conforms to the foot after being heated up, and there are others like Jackson where the heat molding material is actually a plastic layer (it's actually the same stuff golf balls are covered with, it's very stiff until it reaches a certain temperature, then it becomes very flexible).  That said, other materials in the boot like glue, and the leather itself are also subject to heat (most adhesives used in shoe/boot making are heat activated), and may soften/move during the heat molding process as well, so it's not as simple as saying that "only" the heat molding material is changed by heat molding - the whole boot can be.