Do I test?

[Skittl1321]

A test session at a nearby club is coming up in about 6 weeks.

I have been training to test then, but now bumps in the road are coming up.  I won't have a lesson for two weeks, next week the ice is down all next week, so no skating even.

Then I have one lesson and my coach is gone until the test.  I have a substitute coach until then.  She is a great coach and more than capable of helping me train my program. 

But here's the thing.
1) It is insanely expensive to test out of club.   Boo, hiss.  Plus, I have to take time off work.
2) Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing and expecting a different result?  We rearranged my program to showcase more speed and flow, but if the only problem actually noted by a judge was an underrotated loop- well, that isn't fixed. I can hope I get more lenient judges (one did pass me before), but really am I just throwing money away?

I'm wondering with my underrotated loop if it is just a lost cause. 

I'm losing motivation to skate USFSA due to the proposed changes that take spins away.  Why bother spending the money to get to Bronze if I'm not going to Nationals because I don't want to skate a program that has so few elements I enjoy? If that passes, my competitive "career" is done.  I hate jumping. I only do what I have to.  Spins are WHY I skate.  (I need to figure out if my coach will support me skating ISI... it really isn't his thing.)


So what would you do?  Is it worth it to just keep trying now, or wait until next year's club test session?  If you saw my video, do you think it is close enough that it is worth putting out there and hoping for the best?

I'm really discouraged right now.

[phoenix]

On your last test, all 3 judges noted that the loop was under rotated. You say that is still the case. Is there an option to replace it with a different jump? How's your flip?

Otherwise, I'm not sure I see the wisdom of putting a test out when you know one of the required elements isn't up to snuff. Do you sometimes rotate the loop? Or is it always under?

[Skittl1321]

One judge gave me the loop on the reskate. (The one in the program was awful)

But to be honest my loop is barely there, it is merely a loop attempt, and I know that.  I think there are times it looks less underrotated, but it is always cheated. After 3+ years of work on it, a year of almost nothing but loop, it is probably as good as it is going to get.   My flip is on a 5 year plan...I'm not even close. I am not a jumper, even as a dancer I wasn't one, it is unlikely I will ever have a clean loop or flip since my left side is so weak.

That said, my skating is on par with the other bronze skaters in the area, a few of whom I don't understand how they passed their tests (very weak spins or underrotated/cheated jumps).  The problem is, our judges all come from out of state- so it is not a consistent standard for the area, as it is never the same judges.

[Clarice]

The closing date for this test session is May 18, so you can wait to see what happens at Governing Council, if that will make a difference to you.

You need this test in order to be eligible for free skating at Adult Nationals.  But if you just wanted to do dance or interpretive, you could qualify by passing the appropriate dance tests.  Might that be an option for you?

[Skittl1321]

The closing date for this test session is May 18, so you can wait to see what happens at Governing Council, if that will make a difference to you.

I don't know if it does or doesn't.  It certainly makes a difference in my interest in skating.  GC seems to be designed to make me quit... (last year it was moves, this year freestyle. I don't understand the adult committees motives at all, but it never works out well on my end.) But it doesn't effect my test as far as if it is worth bothering if my loop isn't quite there.

We don't really have any dance coaches at our rink, so I don't think I'll be able to go that way.  Plus those damn step behinds

(Also, just in case I offended- the super expensive comment was more in general- not your club. It's inline with everyone else.)

[jjane45]

Are ISI competitions well attended in your area?
Majority of the adult skaters I know only compete ISI.
It's also significantly cheaper.

[Clarice]

(Also, just in case I offended- the super expensive comment was more in general- not your club. It's inline with everyone else.)

Don't worry, you didn't!  Ours are what they are exactly because they're in line with everybody else.  As a new test chair, I want to look at our fee structure over the summer and see whether it could be reduced.  The problems, of course, are ice costs and the expense of bringing in the judges, as well you know.

The point of mentioning dance tests was you could qualify for interpretives that way, and then wouldn't have to meet the well-balanced program requirements.

[Skittl1321]

Are ISI competitions well attended in your area?
Majority of the adult skaters I know only compete ISI.
It's also significantly cheaper.

There are none "in my area", but there is a coach at the rink (not mine) who travels in a 3-4 state region with his LARGE group.  I'm on good terms with the group, which includes some other adults, so I'd be a welcome tag-along.

The travel expenses would be larger (hotels), but since I can enter 6,000 events, it is more "worth it", plus the huge number of events available mean there is more that works for me than USFS has

I'm just so frustrated with skating right now.

[irenar5]

What is your motivation behind testing?  Is it a personal goal or a gateway to AN?  At the AN Bronze programs usually include loops, flips and/or lutzes and a  lot of those are in combination with a loop.  So, if your only reason to pass Bronze freestyle  was to compete Bronze at the AN, you definitely need a solid loop to be competitive.  If you do not care about placement, they why even worry about spin requirements and the loop? 

[JSM]

I went to the committee meeting at AN, I thought it would be a good learning experience as I know next to nothing about skating rules!

The reason cited for reducing the number of spins in the bronze program was, interestingly, so skaters had time to develop their spins.  It was said that the limited amount of time in the bronze program, plus the high number of elements required, made it difficult to hold spins for very long and/or develop variations.  Now I have no idea about bronze program requirements, but I can say that spin variations are really a necessity at higher levels (and increasingly at lower ones).  Spins are worth more points than jumps at gold.

I like the idea of you doing dance; your skating skills are better than many bronze skaters I've seen, and it would get you to AN.  Interp programs are a great place to showcase spinning skills!  Plus dance only helps basic skating.  Plus you can do both interp events at competitions.   I've been told dance would significantly help mine, so I think I'm going to start learning it myself.

[Skittl1321]

I like the idea of you doing dance; your skating skills are better than many bronze skaters I've seen, and it would get you to AN. 

I took dance lessons for awhile, and the Rhythm Blues is what caused my hip injury (so now I can't do spirals...).  Those step behinds will take me YEARS to get
Besides which, our dance coach quit coaching.  I know Clarice drives long distance for her dancing, and I could even just drive the hour to her rink if I really wanted to do it, so it is just excuses, but dancing doesn't appear to be in my future.   But thanks for the compliment.  To some extent it just makes me sadder though, cause I'm likely never going to get to be a bronze skater...


I disagree with the "time to develop spins" thing.  If you spin faster, you can get plenty of revolutions and still have 3 spins.   Additionally, it was a MAXIMUM.  If judges put programs with two better spins above three crappy ones, people will do the better spins rather than more spins.  I understand the statement that it puts it more in line with the standard track levels, but then- why not just have adults test the standard track?  The current layout gives a lot more flexibility.

The section chair I emailed said this: "However, the proposed changes in competition are directly tied to proposed changes in test programs. We've heard repeatedly that skaters don't want to have separate programs for testing and competing. So by changing the test requirements, it only makes sense to change the competition requirements."
This makes ZERO sense at all.  I'm fine with the test change- however, you still need two seperate programs.  The test doesn't allow for changes of position or feet, nor lets you do the jump layout you'd do in competition.  You still need two programs.

[Skittl1321]

What is your motivation behind testing?  Is it a personal goal or a gateway to AN?  At the AN Bronze programs usually include loops, flips and/or lutzes and a  lot of those are in combination with a loop.  So, if your only reason to pass Bronze freestyle  was to compete Bronze at the AN, you definitely need a solid loop to be competitive.  If you do not care about placement, they why even worry about spin requirements and the loop?  

A little bit of both, really.  I'm kind of at a point where my age means my skills are more likely to diminish.  If I don't pass in the next few years- it is not going to happen for me.  I don't really care about winning or even doing well in placements about AN, but it matters to me locally- and I don't need a solid loop here, but I can't do illegal elements and place well here.  I know I can skate up, and I do, but you know how much it hurts to see placements above people who have passed the test (and recently, so it wasn't before an injury or standard change or something), when I can't pass it?  They get to go to AN (where, predictably, they don't do that well).  I don't.

I probably won't go to AN in the near future (too expensive) but passing the test opens it to me for a lifetime.  So it is mostly a personal goal- because what else do I have to work towards?  Why am I bothering with skating? I'll never be able to pass the new Silver moves, so MITF is out.  I'm basically stuck being a PB skater, so I either skate up or I skate against the no-test skaters (we don't seem to have many PB around here.)


I'm probably not going to test- as many compliments as I got when I posted my videos, no one has said it seems worth it to try again.  It's a freaking pipe dream I'm throwing  money into.

[icedancer]

I took dance lessons for awhile, and the Rhythm Blues is what caused my hip injury (so now I can't do spirals...).  Those step behinds will take me YEARS to get

Can you do either of the step behinds?  Or is it just one that is hard for you?  The 2nd step behind on the Rhythm Blues is optional... I don't know if you knew that.

I also wonder what is going on with regards to changing the adult standards all the time - most of the adult skaters that I skate with who passed Bronze MITF have pretty much given up on the Moves test structure - including myself... a few are still trying for the Silver test but very few have passed - a few are still putting themselves out there to test regularly.  Of course most of these skaters have busy lives and are not posting on message boards or attending meetings of the adult committee and so they have no voice and just quietly drop out of skating or just skate socially... this is basically where I am at although I still have some goals in figures and maybe pass some more dances at some point...

Anyway, you might work on that loop for the next 2-3 weeks and see if you can get it and maybe the other coach will give you some tip that will make it work for you.

And don't give up on dance altogether either - of course I like dance...

[nicklaszlo]

After 3+ years of work on it, a year of almost nothing but loop, it is probably as good as it is going to get.

Maybe you need to see a third coach.  Watching your previous test leads me to believe you are capable of learning the jump.

it is unlikely I will ever have a clean loop or flip since my left side is so weak.

Use your right side?

[blue111moon]

This is probably going to sound harsh but, honestly, if you're probably going to quit skating anyway due to your disastifaction with the USFS system, why bother spending the money to test? 

If your sole reason for passing Bronze is to qualify for Nationals and you don't feel that you'll be competitive at that level, then it really doesn't make sense to test.

Even if you switch to ISI, you're going to have to jump to pass their tests.  Sooner or later, you're going to run into one element on a test that you can't do and then you're stuck.  (With me it's the back inside 3's on FS4 Footwork, so I know the frustration.)

You have to decide your motivation for skating and how much you personally get out of the endeavor.  And how much you're willing to put into it to achieve it.

[Skittl1321]

Use your right side?

I wish...  I can do it off ice, but it makes me dizzy with all the leading hops, but rotationally, on ice- there is NO WAY I can skate CCW.  (I tried when I hurt my hip and thought I wouldn't be able to land jumps on the left anymore- it was downright scary. I left skating for awhile after that because it was just too painful, and becoming a CCW skater didn't seem to be an option.)


I think I've worked on this jump with almost every coach at the rink- since I've been in the freestyle group level that does it for over 3 years (don't recall when I passed into it, maybe even 4 years ago).  I've also worked with a PT specifically on left side strengthening, since I have such a disparity between the legs (visible difference in muscle tone- it's weird).  

[Skittl1321]

Can you do either of the step behinds?  Or is it just one that is hard for you?  The 2nd step behind on the Rhythm Blues is optional... I don't know if you knew that.

Of course most of these skaters have busy lives and are not posting on message boards or attending meetings of the adult committee and so they have no voice and just quietly drop out of skating or just skate socially...

I CAN do one of the step behinds.  The second one!  Go figure, right


I've seen this with many adults too.  When I started skating the mantra seemed to be "skating is a lifelong sport" and the tests were difficult, but seemed doable.  Now adult skating seems to be turning itself into a more elite sport, upping the standards and putting themselves more inline with the competitive track.  It's discouraging.  I know it is what skaters in other countries face, but why bother with a seperate adult test track then?  Just have us take the standard tests.

[Skittl1321]

If your sole reason for passing Bronze is to qualify for Nationals and you don't feel that you'll be competitive at that level, then it really doesn't make sense to test.

Even if you switch to ISI, you're going to have to jump to pass their tests. 

I've passed ISI3 and that is high enough for me. I won't go higher due to jumps.

I don't care about being competitive at Nationals, but I do care about getting to participate.  MOST of the bronze skaters I know go knowing they won't be close to the podium.  And qualifying for nationals doesn't just mean a freeskate (though I'd do one), as others pointed out, there are artistic events.  Unfortunately, without adding in a large commute, there is no dance coach around here.

[Clarice]

It comes down to how badly do you want it?  Our team motto for last year was "make it work".  It was a real challenge, especially with the distances involved.  This year we need to do a lot of testing to move up a division; motto is "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger".  You have some significant physical challenges.  I'm 54, but I'm still training, improving, and testing.  I'll hit a non-negotiable limit someday, I guess, but until I do, I keep trying.  If you want to go to ANs badly enough, you'll find a way to make it happen.  That means either passing your Bronze free test, or the first 6 dance tests (to qualify for a Bronze dramatic or light entertainment program - you only need the first 3 for Bronze solo dance, although you'd have to be able to compete more dances than that).  Assuming you haven't yet hit that non-negotiable physical limit, there are ways to do this, although they're not necessarily easy or convenient.  You already know it's possible to pass that free test without having a passing loop if other things are strong enough.  And isn't there a dance coach in Cedar Rapids?  I know Brianna worked with somebody there, and took some of her tests with me.  How bad do you want it?

[jjane45]

Slightly OT, but in response to the thoughtful post above re: non negotiable limit, I don't quite want to push to that exact limit, in fear that the cost to find out the limit is an injury bad enough that ends up changing the limit, preventing me from doing what I could have done.

guess I don't want it badly enough. Or, I really want a different "it": that my body stays healthy enough to hold into lifelong skating!  :-)

[Skittl1321]

I don't quite want to push to that exact limit, in fear that the cost to find out the limit is an injury bad enough that ends up changing the limit, preventing me from doing what I could have done.

This is why I'm reluctant to get into ice dance.  I know it was a freak fall, but I used to have beautiful spirals   I miss them.

I know I'm not made to be an athlete- between my neck, knees, and hip- there is only so much I can do.  I just hate that I'm getting nowhere in skating.  If I take the goal of bronze test away, I have nothing to work towards at all. 

[Live2Sk8]

You're not getting nowhere in skating.  You have a beautiful Artistic program where you show your joy and love for the sport.  Your freeskate is also enjoyable to watch - and you got passed by one judge!  You were so close.  Every time you skate, you can inspire other adults and kids who see you to keep working hard, and maybe get some skate moms who just watch to consider trying it, too.  You inspire me because you're putting the test out there and trying!  I hope you will try the test again, if not this June test then whenever the next session comes out.

I hope to have the option to go to AN someday too even though I know I will place low if not last.  I want the option of being with other adult skaters, sharing the camaraderie, cheering everyone on and hopefully having them do the same for me. 

[jjane45]

If I take the goal of bronze test away, I have nothing to work towards at all. 

Beauty, power, and precision? My goals certainly changed from tangible to more intangible ones over the years. For younger skaters, it's like winning a specific medal vs skating the personal best. YMMV, just my personal opinion.

[FigureSpins]

Don't forget that your lifestyle may change in the future.  You're working, going to school and skating in an area with limited figure skating resources.  Someone might open a new rink and bring in new coaches, you'll finish school, you might relocate/move.  Anything can happen.

In lieu of waiting for next year's test session at your home club, or paying guest fees to test at another local club, you could test at someplace completely different.  A lot of competitions and training camps/clinics hold a test session since judges are in town anyway.  The idea of doing a week-long training camp and then testing at the end has some merit.

Honestly, I had a wonderful experience as an ISI skater and competitor.  It sounds like you'll be part of a group, which makes skating so much more fun.  Perhaps that group could organize a local ISI competition once a year so they don't have to travel far.

The injuries and physical limitations are daunting, so you have to deal with that separately.

But, things can change in a moment, as you know, so if you love the sport, stick with it.

[fsk8r]

And why would passing the bronze test give you nothing to work towards? There's always another skill to learn and another trick to do, another competition and heaven forbid - the next test.
Passing the test just means the next test is slightly further away, instead of being permanently within grasping distance.