Skate Buying Adventures

[Orianna2000]

Yes, the bump is on the side, sort of curving toward the bottom of the skate. I've always had trouble with sneakers that had built-in arch support, because my foot would rest over the arch bump, and it would cause discomfort. But then, I've always had extra wide feet. 

I tried on the skates, as suggested, without the insoles. As soon as I stood up I could feel the arch bump pressing against my foot. It was not painful, but rather uncomfortable, and I know from experience that it will only get worse the longer I wear the skates. So wearing them without insoles is a no-go. As I said, tonight I'll try them with the 3/4 inserts and see how that goes. And I'll try to remember to email Jackson and see if they have any advice.

Thanks to everyone who's been trying to help me! I appreciate all the advice and comments.

[MimiG]

Based entirely on your photos, my feet seem to be shaped somewhat similarly to yours, only mine are narrow. But the general angle/line of the ball-arch-heel looks very similar. I have Risports (in their narrowest width) and they're the only skates that have ever been truly comfortable for me. I second looking into them if you can't find a solution for your current skates and you can find somewhere to try them on.

[Orianna2000]

Kinzie's Closet has a warning that Risports are only for narrow feet, but I'm not opposed to trying anything on. You never know what will work best. As long as they come in extra-wide, that's all that really matters.

My scheduled practice session fell through this evening. I won't get to go skating until Saturday, now. 

[sk8tegirl06]

Kinzie's Closet has a warning that Risports are only for narrow feet, but I'm not opposed to trying anything on. You never know what will work best. As long as they come in extra-wide, that's all that really matters.

I will also agree if you can, give Risports a try. Those are the only boots I've been in once I was past the sporting goods store level of boots. I'd heard that Risports were for more narrow feet, and I typically have very wide feet, but they seem to work for me. I don't skate much more than once or twice a week for an hour or two at a time, so it takes my feet some adjustment for the first few minutes of the session, tying too tight/too loose etc, but once I'm in the boots they're great.

[Bunny Hop]

. If I need new skates, we'll probably drive somewhere with a larger selection than the skating shop we visited in St. Louis. They were pretty small and were out of stock of almost every skate in my size. I'd like to be able to try different heel widths, and perhaps a few different brands. Maybe someplace in Chicago?

Rainbo Sports in/near Chicago stock a variety of brands and also do fitting (although my husband wasn't happy with the fitting he got from one of Rainbo's satellite stores - since closed).
http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1
There's also Triple Toe Skatewear in Woodbridge, IL: http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/

[Orianna2000]

Thanks for those links! We'll definitely check those places out. I wish there was a way to find out if there's a large figure skating store closer than Chicago, because it's an awfully long drive. But Jackson's store-finder only goes out to a 100 mile radius, so it locates nothing. I already tried the figure skating shop in St. Louis. They're pretty small and they only carry Jackson and Riedell. They were out of stock of nearly everything because of the Christmas rush, but I don't know if they normally carry wide-widths anyway. I'd like to try a couple other brands in addition to Jackson and Riedell, so Chicago is probably our best bet. 

[sampaguita]

Orianna2000, maybe you could call the pro shops first before going so they can reserve the sizes for you to fit? I'm sure they would understand that you don't want to waste your long drive.

[Orianna2000]

Oh, yeah. We would definitely call the various shops first, to make sure they have wide widths in stock, before making the drive! 

[Sk8tmum]

Maybe as well, touch base with a couple of skate manufacturers (jacksons, risport, even Lord knows Riedell - if they were properly fitted, they might work for you) - and see if you can get an idea from them of what sizes you fit.  Right now, you're guessing and speculating. If you can get a better idea, then, you could call ahead and say "I need a 5.5 EEE" which is way better.  Frankly, it is unlikely that they will have an unusual size in much of selection of boots. However, if you say that you've gotten the direction from - say Jackson - that this is the size you need, then, you might get more assistance or even an offer to order in for you to try.

[tazsk8s]

Rainbo Sports in/near Chicago stock a variety of brands and also do fitting (although my husband wasn't happy with the fitting he got from one of Rainbo's satellite stores - since closed).
http://www.shoprainbo.com/shop/site/department.cfm/id/013FF087-475A-BAC0-52868D915945931E/killnav/1
There's also Triple Toe Skatewear in Woodbridge, IL: http://www.tripletoeskatewear.com/boots-and-blades/

Mr. Edge from Skating Magazine is in the western suburbs of Chicago also, at the Downers Grove ice arena.  Phone is 630-852-2101 and you will definitely want to make an appointment if you decide to go there for a fitting.

ETA:  he also has a website now, which I found linked on the ice arena website.  www.askmredge.com

[aussieskater]

Thanks for those links! We'll definitely check those places out. I wish there was a way to find out if there's a large figure skating store closer than Chicago, because it's an awfully long drive. But Jackson's store-finder only goes out to a 100 mile radius, so it locates nothing.

Have you contacted Jackson about your skates yet?  If you do decide you need to change skates, you really should try on other brands as well.

I don't know what city or state you live in, but I would have thought that if you contact Jackson directly, they will tell you the name/s of your closest dealers?  You could ask for the names of all the dealers between say you and Chicago, then do some pre-investigation before you set off.  (eg: is the dealer hockey-focussed, and has its figure skate range marked "expensive" and "not expensive" - I heard that one in another post - still chuckling over it!!)  Google might be your friend here.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

[Orianna2000]

Update!

I tried the skates with the 3/4 inserts, but they failed. The inserts lifted my heel up, which tilted my foot forward, which made my toe picks scrape the ice with every stroke I made. I can't skate like that! It was awful. So I removed the inserts and tried skating without them. The result? Pain. So much pain that it brought tears to my eyes. I paid attention to my feet and I think you guys are right, the skates are too narrow at the arch. It was pressing against the outer edge of my foot as well, and I just never noticed before. The heels are too wide, however, so I'm definitely going to need a split width with narrow heels.

I contacted Jackson today, explaining the situation and asking for advice. Hopefully I'll hear back from them soon. Meanwhile, we're talking about taking the train up to Chicago in a few weeks. I'll wait until I hear back from Jackson, see what they have to say, then I'll call the shops in Chicago and see if any of them have the widths I need in stock. I'm guessing they won't and that this trip will end up being a "fitting trip" only, to find out what size I actually need. Then we'll special order the skates and hope like crazy they work.

[sampaguita]

Sorry to hear about the inserts not working. I hope that your new fitter can give you the right measurements.

[Orianna2000]

Update!

I finally heard back from Jackson. It almost reads like a form letter, because it doesn't address most of my specific issues or the questions I'd asked. Basically, it says that based on my measurements, I should be wearing a EEEEE width. Yes, you read that right. Quintuple E! Geeze, no wonder I can't find skates that fit comfortably.    They suggest that I get professionally fitted with someone who fits competitive skates, as they'll know more than someone who only fits recreational skates. They also said that the Classique cannot be modified (I assume they mean to make them extra, extra wide) so I would have to buy something from their Premiere or Elite lines.

The thing is, those are rated at 65 stiffness or higher, while the Classique is rated at 45. I already find the Classique so stiff that I have to use ponytail holders for the top two hooks instead of lacing them, otherwise I get no knee bend. The 65 is rated for an Axel or Beginner Double Jumps. I'm still in Adult 2. I don't want to add overbooting to my problems! I think I'll try emailing one of the skate shops in Chicago and see what they suggest.

[Skittl1321]

I wear a Premier.  I'm not extremely heavy, but am overweight for my height, I am not a big jumper (there is a video of me in the video threads).

I find the skate to be stiff.  I would NOT have wanted to wear it during basic skills.


I wonder if you could get fitted by someone who does Klingbeil's or SP Teri or another custom skate.  It will be expensive, but once you get all the modifications you need- that's expensive too.  I would worry an EEEEE to fit one part of your foot is going to mean another part is way too loose -you know?

It sounds for sure that you need to find a fitter.  That sucks since they aren't available locally.

[Orianna2000]

I was looking at Harlicks and there's a dealer in a city just 2 hours away from here. But they're not a preferred dealer, just a standard dealer, so I don't know if that means they're not able to measure for custom boots or not.

What concerns me is, these are $750 skates, if I get extra wide and split width. Yet, the website says custom skates are non-returnable, non-refundable. Shouldn't they guarantee their work? Suppose the skates are too wide. Or the arches hurt. Or some crazy little thing that means I can't wear them. They really expect me to pay $750 for a gamble that their skates will fit me? They're not going to have EEEEE widths in stock for me to try on, after all. Their stock boots only go up to a D width. I can't justify paying that much money for something that may or may not work. Now, if they took casts of my feet and literally made the boots custom to fit my feet, then maybe I could see paying that much for them.

I don't know, I'm just feeling very frustrated right now. I don't have an extra $750 laying around for custom skates. I was hoping this could be solved for less than $300. Maybe that was naive. . . .

[Skittl1321]

Now, if they took casts of my feet and literally made the boots custom to fit my feet, then maybe I could see paying that much for them.

I don't know, I'm just feeling very frustrated right now. I don't have an extra $750 laying around for custom skates. I was hoping this could be solved for less than $300. Maybe that was naive. . . .

I'm pretty sure this is what they do for custom skates.  You stick your foot into molds (eta- oh, I see Harlick doesn't- only to make an orthotic for the boot).  Of course, I'm not sure that is a guarantee that you like them. Just that they fit your feet.  

But I totally fee your pain on the cost issue.   The thing is- how many pairs of $150-$300 skates are you going to have to buy to find the ones that work?  


Normally I'd say that for an adult- it is worth it.  You are going to be in those  skates for a long long time.  Your feet are done growing.  But a beginner- you'll likely want new skates when you get to freestyle.  But are you in so much pain that without them, you won't be able to make it?

They might be worth calling to talk to them about your options, if nothing else.  (And remember Harlick's D width is different from Jackson's - who knows what their stock boots will be like).  You might want to clarify that split widths/extra wide add to the cost of the boot- I mean- isn't that entirely the point of custom boots, that you get that?

[Orianna2000]

You're right, at this point, without better skates, I won't be progressing very far. The thing is, I don't know how far I'll be progressing anyway. I have issues with balance that are interfering somewhat with learning new moves. I have issues with fear that makes it impossible for me to skate fast enough to do the moves properly. Can I get over those with time and patience? Perhaps. If I don't have new skates, I never will. That's for sure. 

I'll have to do some serious thinking and discuss the issue with my husband. We have some other big expenses coming up soon, so this may just have to wait for awhile.

[FigureSpins]

I'm pretty sure this is what they do for custom skates.  You stick your foot into molds (eta- oh, I see Harlick doesn't- only to make an orthotic for the boot).

That's not an entirely accurate statement, but it is confusing when you think about it - why cast molds and not use them to fit the skates?  But the skatemakers don't.

In addition to Harlick, Klingbeil uses the impression foam for insoles and orthotics only.  Their custom skates are sized through careful measurements to come up with a cutting/construction pattern, similar to sewing a garment. 

Klingbeil used to make the wooden "lasts," or models, of every skater's feet from the measurements, but I don't know if that's still the case since Bill K. passed away.  He was the only one still doing that, iirc.

I don't know of any manufacturers who are using those foam molds to create custom lasts for the actual boot.  Maybe someone else does?

[sarahspins]

I don't know that you need full customs... and you still run the risk of ending up overbooted even if you ask for a softer boot - I saw that happen last year with someone I skate with, and she never did end up getting what she wanted (from Harlick) and ended up going with Klingbeils, which she has been very happy with... however it was an expensive process and she ended up with a pair of custom boots she still couldn't wear.  

In your position I would most likely drive to Rainbo or Mr Edge (or both) and talk to them... you are not necessarily going to be able to walk away with boots and you may not be able to try everything you want to on, but you can most likely address the split width and what size you'd need there as well as get their opinions on different brands and what may fit you best.  No one says that you have to buy anything just because you're getting a fitting - some places do charge a small fee for their time that can be applied towards a purchase (mostly to discourage people from getting fit in person and then ordering online) but I think it's worth it to spend a little to hopefully avoid ending up with another pair of boots that isn't quite the right size.

Also, sometimes "stiffness" that you feel is really due to the decreased padding in lower model boots.  The Classique's may feel very stiff but that could also be due to the lack of padding inside... higher level boots typically have more padding, and this is definitely true of Jackson's line.  I can take some pictures if you'd like, that show the difference in ankle padding between a Marquis (men's version of the Classique), Premiere, and Elite Plus in similar sizes, the Elite Plus are downright plush inside compared to the Marquis. I've actually skated in my son's Marquis, and they don't feel much less stiff than the Premiere's did... however they are a full size too small for me and very uncomfortable because they don't have as much padding as I am used to.  I wouldn't do it again.

Basically what I am saying is that in the correct size, you may be just fine in something like the Premiere even though it's a stiffer boot because it has more padding inside - it will be more comfortable despite the increase in stiffness.

Anything that you can buy now will likely last you at least a couple of years and by the time you need news skates again, it will be easier/simpler the next time around - you'll have a better starting point in terms of size and how stiff you want in the boot.

[Orianna2000]

Compared to the skates I started out in, the Classiques have uber-padding! My Riedell 110s have virtually no padding whatsoever. Practically bare leather. The Classiques have what feels like 1/2" of memory foam padding everywhere except the insoles, which are surprisingly thin considering how thick the padding elsewhere is. I've tried coaches skates on and they have even more padding, so I'm sure the higher-up skates have a ton of padding. But I could barely fit my foot into the Classiques when I first bought them, and every time I pulled my foot out, I expected to hear a sucking sound as my foot pried loose from what felt like vacuum-sealed padding! They're slightly looser now, but still a very snug fit. (Of course, some of that might be because they're way too narrow.)

Anyway, I don't know what we'll do yet. I mean, I looked at other brands' size charts and I'm multiple E-widths for them, too. It's not just Jackson. A trip to Chicago is going to be expensive, as well as long and tedious (9 hours each way!) so we might be better served putting that money toward custom skates. I don't know. The way I'm looking at it is, if my husband can buy a $700 treadmill for exercise, why can't I buy a pair of $700 skates for exercise? Same principle, right? Still, it's painful to even consider, knowing that even a custom pair might not fit and then I'm ruined financially.

[irenar5]

I would personally talk to one of the custom boot makers- Harlick or Klingbeil.  Describe the situation to them,  send them photos and ask them if they feel confident that their  custom product would work for you.  I am sure they have encountered all kinds of feet and in general will have a sense of how it all turns out. Good luck!  Have you had this much trouble with regular shoes as well?

[Sk8tmum]

Earlier, somebody posted that they got Men's Wide skates in white.  That could be a solution. 

In terms of both Kling and Harlick.  Both will do an excellent job in fitting your feet; they will fit very nicely, and customs are designed to be used by skaters with unusual feet.

You can get either boot very soft if you want - that's no problem.  You do need to go a fitter that can fit them, however; the fit will only be as good as the measurements that they take.  Our Klings fit by "remote fitter" were nothing like the Klings fitted by "Kling" themselves, despite having the exact same measurements taken, pictures drawn, and "stepping in the foam box" thing happening.

In terms of cost-effectivness ... one option that you do have, with both Kling and Harlick, is having your boots "rebuilt" at a later date.  Thus, if you get soft, beginner-friendly boots now, you can ship them back to the maker later and they will will rebuild them to a higher degree of stiffness.  Which would be good and will decrease your cost over time.  You can also request that they have them fit your current blades, which will save you some cash if you still have usable life in the blades.

Harlick will also, as we found out, look at your tracings and, if your feet will fit one of their stock boots (which is a possibility, particularly if they use a men's last) - then, they will fit you in stock boots to save you money.  They'll only recommend customs if they feel that you need them.  However, for both Harlick and Kling, you may be looking at several weeks of waiting time to get the boots, which you will want to factor in ...

[Orianna2000]

Have you had this much trouble with regular shoes as well?

Yes. Not quite to the same degree, since regular shoes aren't made to fit like gloves and don't have to be fitted quite so precisely. But yes, I've always had very hard-to-fit feet. Typically, I have to buy my shoes online, from websites that carry double-wide widths. I've always envied women that have "cute" shoes, because I can never find them. Shoes that come in extra-wide tend to be basic and plain, or else ridiculously expensive. I want pretty colors and all the fashionable styles! Alas, it isn't meant to be.

[Orianna2000]

Our skating director did a fitting on Saturday to get my measurements. Looks like I'm pretty consistently a 6.5 in length (but I wear a 7 boot, because my toe kept hitting the end of the 6.5 boot.) As far as width, I'm absurdly wide-footed, which we already knew. She also confirmed that I have a narrow heel, so I'll definitely need a split width heel. She said I certainly don't want a stiffer boot, since I'll never be able to break them in. She suggested I look at Harlick and SP Teri.

So, I've been looking at various customized skates. After looking at SP Teri and Harlick's websites, I'm leaning toward Harlick skates. You can get a EE in their stock boot, which would be a lot cheaper than a fully custom boot. Their sizing chart doesn't go up that high, but judging by the progression of widths, I should be a EE in their skates. You can get a split width for just $30 extra. And they make a boot called X-Line that's designed to be wider at the toe box, fuller at the arch, and narrower at the heel--exactly what I need! I'm still leery of the idea of buying a pair of skates that I can't try on first, but it looks like they're pretty considerate in taking half a dozen different measurements, both sitting and standing, as well as requesting photos of all angles of your feet, to ensure a good fit. So, I'm definitely leaning toward them. We just need to travel somewhere there's a dealer, so I can try them on and make sure they're compatible with my feet, in general. There's a couple of places that are closer than Chicago, so that will be nice.