Skate Buying Adventures

[Orianna2000]

I probably won't get to test the skates in Nashville. I get too anxious at public skates if there's a lot of people, and being Saturday (the day we're going), it's bound to be crowded. They do have Freestyle sessions, but their rules are ridiculously intimidating. At our rink, anybody can skate Freestyle, you just have to pay and sign your name, and there's usually no more than half a dozen ladies on the ice at any given time.  This place, you have to be a certain level of skater in order to skate Freestyle sessions, plus a whole host of other rules that, to be frank, scared the crap out of me. I don't want to inadvertently break a rule and get in trouble, or cause an accident, so I'll just pass.

If my ROH doesn't work, I probably wouldn't even recognize whether that was the problem or not. I'm a beginner and these are brand new skates that I've never skated in before, so if there's something wrong, I'll be just as likely to blame the skates themselves, or the blades, or the toe-picks, or whatever. I don't know if the ROH would even occur to me as a suspect.

I'll probably just tell the sharpener that I'm a beginner, and let him use his own judgement as to what ROH to give me.

[Fiorano]

I probably won't get to test the skates in Nashville. I get too anxious at public skates if there's a lot of people, and being Saturday (the day we're going), it's bound to be crowded. They do have Freestyle sessions, but their rules are ridiculously intimidating. At our rink, anybody can skate Freestyle, you just have to pay and sign your name, and there's usually no more than half a dozen ladies on the ice at any given time.  This place, you have to be a certain level of skater in order to skate Freestyle sessions, plus a whole host of other rules that, to be frank, scared the crap out of me. I don't want to inadvertently break a rule and get in trouble, or cause an accident, so I'll just pass.

I've been lurking here awhile but haven't posted. Since I skate in Nashville, I thought I would finally chime in.
Are you referring to A-Game or Centennial Sportsplex? I don't know much about A-Game, but while Centennial's website has quite extensive rules regarding its freestyle sessions, I can promise you that the atmosphere is actually incredibly relaxed and not intimidating at all! Everyone is very careful and courteous. The level requirements don't mean much--99% of the sessions are open to beginners and they're never too fast-paced for beginners to feel intimidated. If you are working on your edges, stroking, etc, you will be totally fine.

Since Nashville is a hockey town, definitely avoid the public skates which are truly filled with reckless wannabe hockey boys/men of all ages, although there are some rare empty ones, usually the weekday morning ones though.

I get my skates (also Classiques, but an older model with similar MK 21 blades) sharpened by someone at Centennial (possibly the same person you were referred to?) and am very happy with them. I didn't ask for any specific ROH.

[Orianna2000]

Thanks for chiming in, Fiorano!

I knew the Sportsplex has two rinks, but I didn't know there was a third somewhere else in Nashville. Dang! So unfair. I suppose I should be grateful we have a rink at all, here, because we didn't for 10 years. 

I've only just started on forward outside edges and I can't hold them for more than a few seconds at a time, so I don't know if I would be advanced enough for your Freestyle session. I'm in the equivalent of Adult 2, not sure what that would be in the system you guys use. I'm working on turns in place while moving, forward outside edges, and pivots--all of which are quite new and scary to me.

Actually, now that I think about it, I'll be having my lesson and practice session just before we leave for Nashville, so I really couldn't afford a second Freestyle session on the same day, anyway, but I'll keep what you said in mind and maybe the next time I get my skates sharpened, I'll visit your rink. By then I should be more advanced, too. Not necessarily less intimidated, but at least I won't feel quite so much like a fish out of water!

[Fiorano]

Here's a link to the A-Game rink in Franklin: http://www.goagame.com/moresports/figureskating/index_E.html
from the looks of it, it seems their pro shop seems very basic, but maybe you could give them a call to see if they have any services you'd find useful

I was probably close to your current skill level when I switched to freestyles from public sessions getting too crowded for my taste; I had okay forward inside edges but couldn't hold a right forward outside edge to save my life! Most of the skaters are probably working on various single jumps, with others slightly below and above that. On the freestyle sessions today, there was a little boy (4-ish) taking a lesson in his brand new skates--he was still in that not-stroking-but-marching-while-held-by-the-coach stage, and an older girl still in rental skates working on not needing to hang on to the wall; so "beginner" really does mean beginner! I hope you'll feel welcome at the Sportsplex if you do decide to do some skating here in the future.

[Orianna2000]

We do have a pro-shop, but they mostly stock hockey gear. A few racks of Chloe Noel pants, Mondor tights, and skate guards. Oh, and entry-level Jackson and Riedell skates. That's about it for figure skaters. For hockey, they've got everything you need, including several different brands of skates. I mostly buy my skating gear online. At least that way I don't have the exact same stuff as every other beginner at our rink. Although, I was a little peeved to note that the pro-shop sells a lower-level of the same skating bag I bought off Amazon. It's smaller and has less pockets, but it's the exact same shape and color (an unmistakable purple) so I've had to look twice a few times before grabbing my bag off the benches. (That's why I got myself a luggage tag for my bag--it's got a stylized figure skater embroidered on one side, and my name/phone number on the other side. Comes in handy.)

Thank you for the reassurance about the Sportsplex. I definitely feel better about skating there now. The website with all the "rules" was so intimidating! Especially since our rink is so relaxed. But hearing firsthand that it's not as bad as it seems is great. Hopefully I can stop by to skate the next time we're in Nashville.

[Orianna2000]

Quick update. I took my Riedells and held them right up against the Jackson Classiques to compare the toe-picks. The Classiques' toe-picks are about 1/2" longer! I was shocked. I could have sworn that I'd compared them before and found them similar in size, but I guess not. They also have an extra pointy bit on the bottom of the toe-pick that stabs downward, where on the Riedell's the pointy bits all face forward. That's definitely going to make things challenging for me. I'm hoping like crazy that the rocker will be curved enough that I won't trip on the massive toe-picks!

I go tomorrow to get them sharpened, but I won't have the chance to skate in them until next week. I'm hoping to attend Freestyle sometime next week, to give me a chance to try them out and get used to them before having to wear them for my lesson. I guess we'll see.

[Bunny Hop]

When I moved to MK Professional blades from whatever beginner blades I'd had on my previous skates, I was also afraid I would spend a lot of time tripping over the toe pick, but it actually didn't happen. I think I almost caught it once on the first day, but stopped myself in plenty of time and never actually tripped. So you might find it's not as much of an issue as you thought.

My husband is currently having the opposite problem, as he's moved from Coronation Ace to dance blades with much smaller toe picks. Means he can no longer drag on the bottom pick to stop himself when going backwards, because if he does that on the dance blades he'll pitch forwards.

[Orianna2000]

All right, so my skates are now sharpened!

The guy told me that one of the blades is defective. Of course it is. . . .

Apparently in all skates there's this strip of sharpenable metal at the edge of the blade, while the rest of the blade is some other material. Only on my skate, there's a layer of unsharpenable metal at the back edge of the skate. Like they didn't trim it off properly at the factory, or something. The result is that the edge won't hold a sharpening. You can feel the difference when you touch the edges, the other edges are very sharp, but the one defective edge is much more dull. The guy tells me that both edges had this defect, but he was able to grind it away on one side. The other side was too deep and he couldn't grind it all away. He says it shouldn't affect my skating too badly--although I wonder, because I am trying to learn to skate on my edges now. If one edge is perpetually dull, isn't that going to affect my skating? But he also says that the problem should go away after they've been sharpened a few times. Of course, I only skate once or twice a week, so it's going to be 4-5 months until I need to sharpen my skates again, which means it's going to take perhaps a year for this problem to go away. Figures.

I'm going to try and get to one of the normally deserted public sessions this week, to try out the new skates. I'd hate to show up for my lesson in them and waste all that paid time trying to get used to the new skates.

[Skittl1321]

The guy told me that one of the blades is defective. Of course it is. . . .

Can you call the company you bought them through and get a replacement?  That doesn't seem like something you should learn to live with...


Also- very good idea trying to get used to them before your lessons.  I STILL do that after a new sharpening, just to get used to them (and get them dulled up enough I can stop)

[Orianna2000]

Can you call the company you bought them through and get a replacement?  That doesn't seem like something you should learn to live with...

Well, my sharpener didn't suggest replacing the blades. He said it shouldn't affect my skating much, and the problem would go away after a few sharpenings. The trouble with replacing it is the skates have PVC soles, so they would probably have to replace the entire skate, not just the blade. That would mean having unequal skates, one that's partly broken-in and one that's new. (My OCD would never let me deal with that. Things have to be even and equal.) Plus, I didn't order them directly, I had the guy who runs our pro-shop order them for me, and I paid him for the skates, so I have no idea how that would work.

Hopefully my sharpener is right and it won't affect my skating. But if I find that I'm having trouble holding an edge, I'll figure something out.

[MadMac]

Seems to me the pro shop that ordered the skates for you should call the manufacturer & order a whole new replacement pair of skates. That is part of the service you are buying -- the skates and blades should be checked for defects when they arrive and be replaced if there is any problem. You purchased a product with an expectation of a certain quality -- they need to see that you receive the quality you paid for. Skating on a defective blade could cause you to do funny things in compensation for the defect. This could cause you to form bad habits or even lead to an injury. Please don't just accept defects & inferior quality -- the shop & the manufacturer need to make it right!

[sampaguita]

As for the PVC soles -- it IS possibly to have the blade replaced. For my Riedell 133, they almost replaced the blade before they found that the blade they had wouldn't match the holes in the boot. If the blade in the Classique is attached with screws, then yes it is possible to replace the blade, although you might have to try a few blades before you get the right fit.

Anyway, just to share my experience with sharpening:

My first skates were sharpened soooo sharp, and that became my baseline for sharpening. When I had them resharpened, my instructions were to sharpen it like it was done before. It wasn't as sharp, and since I was skating on hard hockey ice, I found it hard to keep my edge. Eventually, I found the 2nd sharpening to be even better than the first one: turns were more manageable, and the edges weren't that hard to hold.

As for the ROH, the ice makes a lot of difference. My last sharpening was done over a year ago, and I skate maybe around 2x a month on average. I now skate on very soft ice, which is good for my skates. Softer ice requires a lower ROH, while harder ice requires a deeper ROH. It also depends on your weight -- the lighter you get, the deeper ROH you will need.

I suggest asking the sharpener for his recommendations. Then for your second sharpening, tell him your comments so he can adjust accordingly.

[Orianna2000]

Seems to me the pro shop that ordered the skates for you should call the manufacturer & order a whole new replacement pair of skates. That is part of the service you are buying -- the skates and blades should be checked for defects when they arrive and be replaced if there is any problem. You purchased a product with an expectation of a certain quality -- they need to see that you receive the quality you paid for. Skating on a defective blade could cause you to do funny things in compensation for the defect. This could cause you to form bad habits or even lead to an injury. Please don't just accept defects & inferior quality -- the shop & the manufacturer need to make it right!

Our pro-shop owner is pretty inexperienced. To be honest, I don't know if he would recognize defective blades if he saw them. I'll let my instructor know what the sharpener said, and if she sees any difficulty in my ability to hold an edge, I'll talk to the pro-shop guy. It's been a few months since I bought the skates, so I don't know if he'll do anything now. The sharpener said it shouldn't cause a problem with my skating, so hopefully he's right. It was a nightmare getting these skates in the first place, it took weeks for them to arrive after we placed the order, and then it took another couple of months before we were able to get them sharpened properly so I could use them. So you can see why I'm not enthused about the idea of exchanging them. I would have to keep using my temporary (uncomfortable) Riedell's for weeks, if not months more, and we'd have to take yet another trip to Nashville to get them sharpened. But like I said, I'll have my instructor keep an eye on things and if she sees a problem, I'll talk to the pro-shop owner and see what he can do.

As for the ROH, the ice makes a lot of difference. My last sharpening was done over a year ago, and I skate maybe around 2x a month on average. I now skate on very soft ice, which is good for my skates. Softer ice requires a lower ROH, while harder ice requires a deeper ROH. It also depends on your weight -- the lighter you get, the deeper ROH you will need.

I suggest asking the sharpener for his recommendations. Then for your second sharpening, tell him your comments so he can adjust accordingly.

I'm pretty sure we have hockey ice. I'm fairly petite, too. But I just told the sharpener that I'm a "beginner" and he said okay, and never told me what ROH he used. I guess we'll see how it works when I go skating this week.

[Orianna2000]

Update!

I went to a deserted public skate yesterday afternoon. There was one woman and a little girl skating, plus two hockey kids who came and went sporadically. So we had the ice pretty much to ourselves.

When I stepped on the ice, the first thing I noticed was how slippery the new skates were. I mean, I would just stand there, and I would be gliding slowly forward. It was very bizarre, and I can only think that it's because of how sharp the blades were. I also noticed the rocker more than I ever have before. I don't know if the rocker radius of the Classiques is different from that of the Riedell 110s, but I definitely noticed the curve of the blade.

The toe-picks were not much of an issue. I did stumble a couple of times when I scraped my foot and caught the toe-pick. But I'm sure that I'll adjust to them.

I love how snug the skates are. I didn't like that my left toe kept bumping against the toe of the boot. I'll need to try tapping my heel back into the boot harder, to see if I can prevent that from happening again. The snugness, however, is wonderful. It made it so much easier to do stuff! I was effortlessly doing swizzles and backward swizzles, without worrying about my feet sliding around in the boots, or my feet scrunching up in the boots. It was great! I guess I didn't realize that my Riedell's are too big. I mean, I knew they were a little loose, in comparison with the Classiques, but I had no idea what a difference it would make.

So, now for the downside. The arch supports are too high. I have very flat feet. And when I feel around inside the boot, I cannot for the life of me find any arch support. But it must be there, because when I put the skates on, it feels like there are rocks inside, right at my arches. It was fine when I was just wearing the skates around the house to break them in. But on the ice? Ouch! I was able to skate for about ten minutes before I had to sit down. After that, I would skate for about ten minutes, then rest for five. The pain was intense. I think the reason it's so bad is because I have neuromas--tiny cysts on the nerves. The arch support presses right against my neuromas, causing the intense pain. I honestly don't know how I'm going to make it through my 30-minute class this evening.

I'm confidant the arches will break down with time. But what am I supposed to do in the meanwhile? Ugh. (I'm going to start a new thread on this topic, just because it concerns me so.)

Aside from the arch problem, the only other problem I noticed was that the boots were so stiff that I couldn't get a decent knee-bend. I was trying to do turns-in-place and turns while moving, where you go forward, bend your knees, then quickly swivel around so you're going backwards. Only I couldn't bend my knees deeply enough to do it properly. I'd left the top hook undone, but I did loop the bow of my laces around the top hooks, without thinking. Could that have caused the problem? I'll make sure I don't do that tonight, and if necessary, I can leave the top two hooks undone. That will leave me with some very long laces, but I'll find a way to deal with that.

I'll update again after my lesson tonight, to let you know how that goes.

[taka]

Is the arch support part of the insole? Can you take the insoles out and switch them for a similar thickness flat ones?

I'm glad they fit better than your last ones! I hope they break in nicely for you! 

[Orianna2000]

Is the arch support part of the insole? Can you take the insoles out and switch them for a similar thickness flat ones?

It's hard to tell. When I touch the insole, I don't feel more than the slightest raise to indicate an arch support. I don't know if there's something beneath the insole, perhaps? It almost feels like it's on the side of the skate, rather than the bottom, but again, there's nothing there, so I really don't know. I'm planning to go to Wal-Mart tomorrow and buy some sneaker insoles, to see if those are any better.

[sampaguita]

Could it be the raised heel? Skates have raised heels compared to dress shoes, and there's another thread in this forum (can't find where it is though) that discusses the difference between the heel of the Jackson and the Riedell -- I think Jackson has the higher heel? Other users can perhaps confirm or correct this.

My Riedell 133 has very very flat insoles. If your Classiques also has very flat insoles, then it must be the shape of the boot itself. Since the boot is not flat under the insole, the boot forces your foot to bend in some way, and maybe the Jackson heels are too high for you...just my 2 cents worth, not an expert on this.

[Orianna2000]

I do have trouble wearing high-heeled shoes, but this is a very different sort of pain. It feels much like there's a rock under my arch.

When I removed the insoles, I discovered that there is a raised arch. It's part of the boot itself, plus there is a layer of foam padding over it (non-removable). I've been working with the arch, pressing on it and rubbing it, to try and break down the foam. But since I can feel a hardness beneath the foam, I know it's part of the boot. I can only hope that flattening the foam will be enough to make it tolerable.

If breaking it down doesn't work, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Thicker insoles won't help, since the arch is right at the juncture of sole and boot, along the side, meaning it's not directly under the insole, but up on the side of the boot a little.

I should have known I'd have a difficult time finding skates that work. I can't even buy normal shoes that fit comfortably! 

[Isk8NYC]

When I removed the insoles, I discovered that there is a raised arch. It's part of the boot itself, plus there is a layer of foam padding over it (non-removable). I've been working with the arch, pressing on it and rubbing it, to try and break down the foam. But since I can feel a hardness beneath the foam, I know it's part of the boot. I can only hope that flattening the foam will be enough to make it tolerable.

If breaking it down doesn't work, I honestly don't know what I'll do. Thicker insoles won't help, since the arch is right at the juncture of sole and boot, along the side, meaning it's not directly under the insole, but up on the side of the boot a little.

Ask the pro shop to punch out the boot in that spot.

[Orianna2000]

Can they do that? I'll definitely keep that in mind and if it remains a problem, I'll drive the 5 hours to the figure skating shop and see what they can do. Thanks for the suggestion!

[Orianna2000]

Update!

So, my skating instructor suggested I talk to this guy at the rink (not sure if he's the manager, or what, but he's a High Ranking Individual) about punching the arches in my boots. Because the pain was getting intolerable, to the point where I wasn't looking forward to skating anymore. I could only skate for 5-10 minutes before the pain got so bad that I had to stop skating and either sit down, or, if I was in my lesson, stand at the boards with my feet tilted onto my outside edges, taking my weight off my arches. Then I could skate for another 5 minutes or so, before repeating the process.

I found the guy and showed him my skates, explained the problem, and mentioned my fears that if he punches the arch, leaving a rounded bubble, they won't provide any support at all--and he said that was his concern, as well. So he's going to try stretching the boots at the arch and see if he can flatten it somewhat. He's going to do a little at a time, to reduce the risk of over-stretching them. Because once that happens, that's it, the boots are ruined forever. Basically, it's a gamble, but what choice do I have? I can't keep on skating with the pain so bad.

With my luck with skates thus far, I'm terrified. But we'll see. We're picking up the skates this afternoon and are planning to try them out at the afternoon public session. I'm incredibly nervous! If this works, I'll be able to skate without pain and it will be wonderful. If it fails . . . well. If it fails, I'll have to figure out how to find a new pair of skates. We'd probably have to drive to Chicago, which is something like a 10 hour drive. And even if the skates fit at the store, there's no telling how they'll fit on the ice, but let's not even go there.

I'll let y'all know how it goes this afternoon.

[SynchKat]

I have high arches but the arch support in my skates I used as a teen was just in the wrong spot which caused cramping and pain like you described. My coach at the time Took my insole out and shaved the arch off wi th a razor blade. Could you try this?

[Orianna2000]

I wanted to do the same thing--cut the arch out--but my hubby wouldn't let me. It's a pretty permanent solution and he's afraid it will ruin the skates.

So, for the update . . . I picked up my skates and the guy says he didn't do anything to them. Apparently he didn't realize they were brand new. He thinks they'll break in, given time. His suggestion is to put on a pair of hot, wet socks and sit in the skates until they've cooled, repeatedly, to speed up the breaking-in process. He also suggests getting some insoles, like Superfeet, because (in theory) they'll lift my foot up away from the arch bump. If, after several weeks, they're still painful, he'll consider punching them, but when he looked at them and compared the punching tools to the area that needs flattening, he couldn't find one that looked like it would work. So he's very reluctant to try punching them.

Guess I'm off to buy a pair of Superfeet.

[sampaguita]

If you don't mind, could you please post your measurements on the board, and if you're comfortable, pictures of your foot, including your arch? My guess is that the Jackson Classique 7C is too narrow for you, that's why your foot feels the bump on the sides of your foot.

It could also be that your pro shop ordered your REAL size, without adding the recommended 1/4" toe room. In my case, the local pro shop told me I was a size 4 in Jackson. That's my actual size in Jackson, but a size 5 works better for me, with the extra 1/4". My real size is 4D, but I find the 5C okay. Same thing with Riedell: I am size 3.5 D or E (off the charts) in Riedell, but 4.5B works really well.

Please refer to this site for the fitting instructions:"
http://ontheedgepei.com/jackson-selection-and-fitting-guide/
http://www.usaskates.com/jacksonsizingchart.html)

You must have somebody else to do the measurements for you, because bending over and doing the measurements yourself will cause your foot to shrink or expand accordingly.

[Orianna2000]

I will try to have my husband take measurements and photos of my feet tonight. It would make sense that my feet are too wide across the arch, since they're so wide across the ball, as well.

Our local pro-shop doesn't do fitting (they sent me home with a size 8, when I'm actually a 6.5 in Jacksons and Riedells!). So I was fitted in St. Louis (a 5 hour drive away) where they said I was a size 6.5 and I'm guessing my width was off the chart, since she followed the size all the way to the end of the chart, then flipped it over, as if looking for a continuation. She didn't find anything on the back of the chart, so she flipped it back over and blinked a few times. In regular shoes, I'm a double wide (WW and probably E or EE), but the widest skates we could find within our budget were the Classiques, which don't come wider than C. I ordered the size 7 because the 6.5 felt too short in the toes. I was bumping my toes against the end, and I didn't like that.

They feel wide enough at the toes, but perhaps you're right, that it's too narrow across the arch. When my hubby gets home, I'll ask him to help me measure and photograph my feet. I'm not sure what we can do if that's the case, though. Is there a fix for it?