Skate Buying Adventures

[Orianna2000]

Buying my figure skates has been quite an adventure. Hopefully this is the right place to share (if not, feel free to move this post).

It began back in November 2011, when my husband and I decided we were going to wholeheartedly support our town's new ice rink. With the idea that we'd be coming to skate regularly, hubby decided to buy me a pair of skates at the local pro-shop. I was very excited to have my very own, brand-new pair of skates. I tried on both Jackson and Riedell, the only two brands our tiny pro-shop carries, and I found that Riedell's just weren't comfortable, but the Jackson Glaciers fit like they were made for me. I wear a regular shoe size 8 WW, and much to my surprise, the size 8 M skates fit without being too narrow. Shocked and pleased, we bought them on the spot. A few weeks later, we began lessons.

Everything was fine, the skates broke in nicely, and they were so comfortable . . . until I started doing swizzles. Then my feet started spasming. I could make it halfway across the short width of the rink and then I had to stop and rest by the wall for a few minutes, until the pain in my feet subsided. Since you have to go at least halfway across the rink in order to pass the test, I knew I was in trouble. I couldn't understand the problem, since the skates seemed to fit so nicely. Eventually, I read that skates are supposed to fit snugly and therefore my skates were too big. I tried on a pair in 7.5, and then a 7, which fit much better--but were too narrow.

Our pro-shop guy offered to order the Jackson Glaciers in a wide-width for me. So we waited a couple of weeks for those to come in, but when they finally arrived, they weren't wide. Because Jackson Glaciers don't come in wide. But nobody bothered to tell the pro-shop guy this when he ordered them, they just accepted his order and shipped the M width. So I did some research and found that if I wanted a wide width, I was going to have to go up a few levels and order the Jackson Artiste or Classique. Since the Classiques were only about $25 more than the Artistes and seemed quite a bit nicer, we ordered them.

But they didn't ship. And they didn't ship. My test loomed, just one week away. So we drove 5 hours to the nearest city with a figure skating shop, just so I could try on some skates and (hopefully) go home with a pair for the test. Unfortunately, it was just after Christmas and the shop was sold out of nearly everything. The lady tried skate after skate on me, but she didn't have the right size and width combination that I needed. Finally, at the very end, she brought out a pair of Riedell 110s, the cheapest skate they had. And it fit. Well, sort of. They had to have the sides punched out to make them wide enough, which the shop lady did. The back of the ankle tilted forward right where my ankle tilted back, and therefore they dug into my ankles painfully, but the shop lady assured me that would "break-in" and so she sold me a pair of Bunga ankle sleeves to wear in the meantime. (Now I'm paranoid about the skates damaging my achilles tendon!) By the time we drove home again, the punch-outs had shrunk so they no longer fit. Instead, the edge of the punch-out rubs against the base of my big toe, and when I wear the skates, my feet go numb after a few minutes . . . but they are (slightly) less painful than my too-big Glaciers, so I wore them for my test--and passed by the skin of my teeth. (Yay!)

Finally, the Jackson Classiques arrived, in a size 7 C. When I first tried them on, I could barely squeeze my foot into them, I thought they were too small, and I despaired. But the pro-shop owner was kind enough to let me sit around in his shop for nearly an hour, wearing them. And gradually, they stretched just enough for me to realize that they did, indeed, fit. They were wide enough, which was my biggest concern. They hurt where the arch support met my flat-feet, but I suspected that might go away with breaking-in. Still, they were painful and I didn't want to buy yet another pair of skates that didn't fit! If they'd been cheaper, I wouldn't have hesitated, but because these were not $65 skates, but $140 skates, I wasn't sure what to do. My husband encouraged me to go ahead and buy them, so I finally did. And I'm glad, because with wearing them around the house, they have started to break in and most of the pain has vanished.

Now I'm just waiting until I can get them sharpened, so I can stop wearing the "temporary" Riedells, which are quite uncomfortable. Problem is, we haven't a decent sharpener in our city. The pro-shop uses an automated machine that doesn't know the difference between hockey skates and figure skates, so I have to drive 3 hours to the closest city with a rink to find someone who knows what they're doing. I finally found someone and we have an appointment for next weekend. (I know the local figure skaters have someone to sharpen their skates, but that's a secret they're guarding closely!)

But now I've read a little more about the Jackson Classiques and learned that they have freestyle blades, which have toe-picks that may be too big for me, since I'm still a beginner. Someone suggested that I could swap the blades out if I have trouble with the toe-picks, but then I read that you can only do that with leather-soled skates, and these are PVC. So I don't know what I'll do if the toe-picks are too big. I couldn't go with a lesser skate, because I need the wide width. My feet are double wide, practically off the sizing chart, and I already learned that punching the toes out doesn't work well. So, hopefully I can learn to deal with the blades! Next week they'll be sharpened and I can finally skate in them, and then we'll find out if my skate-buying saga is ended or not. . . . 

[JHarer]

Width wise I have a similar issue. Try seeing if you can order the mens boot in white leather. I know Riedell will do this because that is what mine are.

[sampaguita]

What an adventure! Looking forward to the next installment!

[Orianna2000]

I'll look into the men's boots if the Jackson Classiques don't work. After three pairs of skates and a lot of money wasted, I'm really hoping they'll be okay. Like I said, next weekend I get them sharpened and then I'll be able to test them on the ice for the first time. I'm so anxious about it! I'm terrified they'll end up hurting or the toe-picks will be too big and I won't be able to skate in them. With no figure skating stores closer than a 5 hour drive, it makes it hard to shop around for skates. 

[Skittl1321]

Are you willing to share where you are located?  That may help us recommend some fitters.  I live in a state without a pro-shop, so I understand the feeling of it being a secret where the skate sharpeners are...


Also- if you are a confident beginner, the Mark IV blade shouldn't be too big of a toe pick for you.  I switched to a freestyle blade/stiffer boot (Mirage, which I think is a step up from Mark IV, but probably as similar toe pick size) around Basic 5, but I progressed through the Basic skills levels quite quickly.  

I was also in too small skates for MUCH too long.  My first figure skates (I started with the Lands End skates my parents had bought me 18 years earlier...) were Jackson Competitors in a size 3- the fitter swore they were right, and they felt fine off ice, but my feet would go numb within seconds, wearing tights.  I started skating barefoot and that bought me about 10 minutes of feeling, then they'd go numb.  I could get through a 30 minute period then I'd have to relace and rub my feet.  So I found a coach who had size 3 D width used.  That made the $250 mistake of the first skates a bit more palatable, because those only cost me $50- and those were SO much better.  My feet would go numb after about an hour though, and I'd clench my toes.  I wore them for a few years until I decided I wanted new skates.  Turns out- I should have been in a size 4, and while my feet are wide for 3s, they are in the normal range for 4 (I think I need a split width, as I'd like it a bit wider in the toe, but the heel is good.)  My new skates- Jackson Premiers, are now pretty close to perfect for me. 

Finding skates that fit is quite an adventure...

[sarahspins]

The Mirage/Mark IV is really the same blade, and I wouldn't worry about the picks being too much for you.  There's a difference between what is considered a "recreational blade" (like what you'd find on rental skates or very low-end figure skates) and what is a beginning freestyle blade like the Mirage or Mark IV, and you should be fine on those... the problem really comes in when people start moving towards much more advanced freestyle blades before they really have the skill set required to use them effectively.

[Orianna2000]

I live near Memphis, TN, if that helps. The name of a good fitter or sharpener closer than Nashville (3 hour drive) would be fantastic. Our pro-shop owner does his best, but he's new to the business and knows very little about fitting or sharpening. He uses an automated machine to sharpen skates and I'm pretty sure the machine doesn't know the difference between hockey skates and figure skates. My instructor gave me the name of her "old" sharpener in Nashville, but she wouldn't say who she uses locally, so I'm convinced it's a conspiracy of silence.

As far as blades go, I think they are the Mirage freestyle blades. The toe-picks look absolutely wicked, but when I held them up against my old skates, they didn't seem to be that much larger, so I don't know if it's an optical illusion or what.

I'm not that confident of a beginner, to be honest. I mean, I'm learning and I'm doing well, but I have a lot of anxiety about being on the ice. I'm constantly afraid of falling and breaking something, and I don't deal well with crowds. I had to drop out of the public classes and switch to private lessons because I couldn't deal with so many people, or the pressure to learn (and master!) one new skill each week. I'm doing a lot better with private instruction. My instructor pushes me to keep learning, but when I can't do something because my knees are hurting or my back is spasming, she's happy to move on to something else.

Anyway, hopefully the blades will be okay!

[Skittl1321]

I guess by confident beginner, I meant someone who was up and moving.  Some adults hold onto the wall for years, I wouldn't put them in Mirages.  (Don't let this scare you if you are still holding on... especially if you think they don't look much bigger than your other pair.)   If it makes you feel better, I'm a freestyle skater and terrified of crowded ice.  I've left group classes when there were more people there than normal, but I do take them for the most part.  You should ask your instructor to help you learn how to fall safely.  I never fell when I was coming up in the levels, so when I got to jumping I was still terrified of it, and it has really held me back.  Learning how to fall in the beginning is pretty important, and letting yourself fall. 

I can't help with TN, maybe someone will be able to chime in, but I have to say that is REALLY weird your instructor wouldn't give you a local name. I expect that of rival coaches, but not your own...    It does sound like she is a good fit for you though, if she pushes you just enough, but recognizes your limitations.

Good luck with the new skates.

[Orianna2000]

No, I don't hold onto the wall. I didn't, even before I started classes, probably a leftover smidgeon of confidence from when I took lessons as a kid. I passed Adult 1 and am now working on outside edges on a curve and turning while moving. Oh, and pivots--only I have trouble with those because I can't hold my foot at the right angle with my current skates. They cut into the back of my ankle, so pointing my foot becomes uncomfortable, even with Bunga pads on.

We were taught how to get back up again after falling in the first class, but they didn't actually teach us how to fall. I've read that you're supposed to tilt your head either forwards or backwards to try and stop from hitting it, and to land on the largest muscle (either hip or bum), but I don't see how you're supposed to manage that when you fall so quickly that you're flat on the ice before you realize it! I've fallen twice, landed on my lower back once and on my hip the other time. The other day I started to fall but caught myself, and wrenched my back in the process. Still hurt the following week during my lesson. Between my anxieties and my physical issues (arthritis, etc.) I often wonder if I picked the right hobby. . . . My hubby's not scared of falling at all, because he gets to wear all his hockey gear, like a foot of padding over his whole body. He falls, he doesn't even feel it!

[Skate@Delaware]

After you've skated in your boots a while, they will "stretch out" a bit. It helps if you have them heat-molded (which I'm sure you can have done at the good pro-shop).  If they still bug you, have them stretched out a bit. Most fitters/pro shops can stretch them (up to one full size I'm told).  If it's only a few areas that hurt, have those spots "punched out" which will give you great relief.

You will find some of the moves easier as your skates break in and you gain more control over your skating.  Good luck!

[Sk8Dreams]

Congratulations on passing your group test!

You don't have to wait to use your new skates.  The blades come with a factory sharpening that should be good enough until you can get to the sharpener.  Just check the bottoms to be sure there is a hollow.  In general, the blades on Jackson sets are OK.

[FigureSpins]

I've tried factory-sharpened Ultima stock blades myself and they weren't very good.  Part of it is that the ROH is too shallow, but I could feel the edge "stick" and "rock" in places where it shouldn't have been doing so.  Even my Gold Seals had some uneven spots and highs/lows along the edges.  The factory sharpening is only good to check alignment; it gets really dull after an hour or two of use.  I have the pro shop sharpen all of my freestyle students' blades once the alignment's okay.

My instructor gave me the name of her "old" sharpener in Nashville, but she wouldn't say who she uses locally, so I'm convinced it's a conspiracy of silence.

The same thing happened to me but I found a really good sharpener on my own, at another rink.  Apparently, the coaches didn't want to send skaters to a different rink.

What's funny though, is that he complained that the coaches in that rink sent their skaters elsewhere to buy figure skating equipment, which is why he didn't have much in stock.  He later had a falling-out with management and started his own, standalone shop in a shopping center near his home.  We went there a few times, but he ended up closing his doors without notice.  We drove 25 minutes to drop off a pair of skates for sharpening and the storefront was vacant. 

A few months ago, I found out that he still sharpens for *some* of his customers, but he keeps it quiet for some reason.  Maybe the other coaches knew he was unreliable? 

I dunno what his story is, so I settled for the guy at our pro shop who has to take them offsite overnight and always complains that my RI edge is low.  (It's because I always do one-foot hockey stops.)

[Orianna2000]

After you've skated in your boots a while, they will "stretch out" a bit. It helps if you have them heat-molded (which I'm sure you can have done at the good pro-shop).  If they still bug you, have them stretched out a bit. Most fitters/pro shops can stretch them (up to one full size I'm told).  If it's only a few areas that hurt, have those spots "punched out" which will give you great relief.

My "temporary" skates (Riedells) have already stretched to the point where my feet slip when I try to do certain moves and I have to lace them very tight to keep my heels locked in place. That's probably why my toes go numb. They did punch the sides of the toes, which was great at first, but now they've shrunk up so the punch-out no longer aligns with the widest part of my foot. Instead, the edge of the punch-out hits right at the base of my big toe, where my foot is widest. Rubs painfully. Since I have the new skates, it didn't really feel worth the 5 hour drive to have them re-punched.

According to Jackson's website, the Classiques are not heat-moldable, otherwise I would have driven the 5 hours to have that done. I think they'll be okay, though. They just need to be fully broken-in, which I can do once I can skate on them.

Congratulations on passing your group test!

You don't have to wait to use your new skates.  The blades come with a factory sharpening that should be good enough until you can get to the sharpener.  Just check the bottoms to be sure there is a hollow.  In general, the blades on Jackson sets are OK.

Thanks! I was thrilled to pass that test.

The factory sharpening on my Classiques is pretty dull. The edges feel blunt to the touch. Not sure how they'd be to skate on, especially since my coach is trying to teach me to glide on the outside edge. But it's okay, I only have one more class in my "temporary" skates and then I'm off to Nashville to get the new skates sharpened. 

Now I just have to figure out which radius to ask for. I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

[Skittl1321]

I wouldn't worry about asking for a specific ROH.  Tell the sharpener you want a beginner sharpening.  They will do what they recommend for you (and you can ask them what they used).

If you ask for something specific, they might think you know exactly what you want, and not tell you if they recommend something different for beginners.

I've found that around here almost NONE of the skaters know what their ROH is.  The sharpeners do "beginner", "freestyle" and "advanced freestyle".  My sharpener told me what mine was once, but I don't remember what it is anymore. 

[FigureSpins]

Now I just have to figure out which radius to ask for. I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

You don't need to ask for a specific ROH.  You should make an appointment with the skate sharpener since you're new.  Just say you're an "Adult 1" or "Beginning" skater and they'll know what to do.  Our sharpener keeps notes on what setting he uses for each pair of skates.

The only exception I would make is if you're really heavy, a deeper hollow helps make the edges easier to hold.  Other than that, you'll be fine on the default ROH for your level.

There's a good thread, with illustrations, here: http://skatingforums.com/index.php/topic,2220.0.html

[Orianna2000]

Thanks for the advice. I did ask the sharpener what ROH he recommended, but his answer was based on "beginner with beginner blades" so I was a little confused, since my blades are more advanced than I am. I'm sure he'll know what to do, though.

[hopskipjump]

ITA a good sharpener knows what to do...I never let him know, but he always gets it right. 

[irenar5]

The only exception I would make is if you're really heavy, a deeper hollow helps make the edges easier to hold.

I think it is actually the other way around.  The lighter you are, the more pressure you need to carry an edge, therefore a deeper hollow.  If you are heavier, a smaller ROH (deeper hollow) will give you too much of a bite. 
On a side note, my sharpener actually believes that a larger ROH is preferable to a smaller one,  because it develops  body lean to control the edge. 

[Skate@Delaware]

I think it is actually the other way around.  The lighter you are, the more pressure you need to carry an edge, therefore a deeper hollow.  If you are heavier, a smaller ROH (deeper hollow) will give you too much of a bite. 
On a side note, my sharpener actually believes that a larger ROH is preferable to a smaller one,  because it develops  body lean to control the edge. 

Well, that makes sense because as I've lost weight my ROH has gotten deeper. Guess you need more "edge" to grab the ice since the weight isn't there.

[Sk8Dreams]

I've read conflicting reports on ROHs and have received conflicting advice. A book I read suggested 1/2" for beginners, but I later learned that's way off. I either want 3/4" or 5/8", not sure which is more appropriate for my skill level.

And I will add to the conflicting advice!  IMO, 1/2" is exactly what a beginner should have.  In any case, 1/2" is not "way off" compared to 5/8".  There is only an 8th of an inch difference.

[Orianna2000]

And I will add to the conflicting advice!  IMO, 1/2" is exactly what a beginner should have.  In any case, 1/2" is not "way off" compared to 5/8".  There is only an 8th of an inch difference.

Really? I've been reading that 1/2" is only for advanced skaters, and my sharpener agrees with this. He says beginners should have 3/4", those starting jumps should have 5/8, Freestyle skaters should have 1/2", and more advanced skaters should have slightly deeper. I'm really confused now! The skating director at my rink suggested 5/8, but I don't know how well she knows my skating ability, and this was a secondhand recommendation, via my instructor.

[irenar5]

Please do not worry about the hollow- you can change it ANYTIME!  I would start with a more shallow hollow and deepen it if you find yourself slipping.  Deepening a hollow takes less metal away than redoing a deep hollow into a shallow one. 

[Orianna2000]

Please do not worry about the hollow- you can change it ANYTIME!  I would start with a more shallow hollow and deepen it if you find yourself slipping.  Deepening a hollow takes less metal away than redoing a deep hollow into a shallow one. 

Unfortunately, I can't change it anytime. We live three hours from the nearest guy who sharpens skates, so it's a major affair to drive up there to get this done. I know there is someone who does it for the local figure skaters, but they have a code of silence and I'm not part of their clique, so they won't tell me who it is. Maybe once I'm more advanced they'll let me into their circle, but for now, I have to drive three hours to Nashville just to get my skates sharpened. 

[irenar5]

Wow!  That's some rink conspiracy!  I am sorry to hear that! 

Is it possible for you to try the blade out in Nashville at a local rink before you have to drive back? 
I skate on 1/2", even though the type of blade that I have has a factory recommendation of 7/16".  Maybe you can split the difference and start at 5/8?  Also, the smaller you are, the deeper hollow you can get away with.  Anyway, there is no precise science to it all, just suggestions and personal preferences.  You would not know what you like  unless you have skated on a certain ROH.  That is exactly how I found out that 7/16 does not work for me!   Start with 5/8 and adjust accordingly next time when you sharpen. 

[Skittl1321]

I'm not sure "trying it out" will help too much though.  It usually takes me 2 skates or so to really get comfortable after a new sharpening, and that's with my standard radius.  Freshly sharp skates are just a different feel.