remote boot fitting?

[jjane45]

When visiting a boot fitter is extremely expensive,  is there a way to send them something more than mere measurement numbers?

suppose there is a DIY boot fitting kit like a walking cast, that makes a mold of both feet similar to dental molds, skater walks in them before mold forms permanently so fitter can tell of possible pronation or other relevant walking habits. skater then sends in the mold along with a completed survey like height, weight, skating level and whatever a fitter is interested in.

if feasible and executed properly, do you think this process can effectively replace a long trip to out of state fitters? What are the shortcomings? Stock boots only or custom can work this way too?

[Isk8NYC]

Molds?  For custom boots, yes.  For stock boots, no.  Klingbeil uses a foam mold that you send in to have them double-check the measurements and angles.  Klingbeil develops the last based on your measurements, not a cast of the mold. 

I believe other custom bootmakers use the molds as well; I saw some of the boxes at other boot makers' booths at a trade show last year.  Not sure how they use the molds, though.

Some online shops ask for photos of your feet if you want them to recommend a brand/model, along with a short survey of size, weight, skating level, discipline, etc.

This would be a great question to send to the skate manufacturing companies, just to get a tally of who does what.

[jjane45]

I guess this ties into the klingbeil business model discussion. For sure it's not for people with very sensitive feet and must visit the fitter multiple times for adjustments. But could some of those adjustments be foreseen and addressed for by studying the mold carefully? (Punching out, blade alignment...)

[Isk8NYC]

Again, this is only for custom skates.  No manufacturer or reseller would spend the money to do molds or measuring for stock skates.  That's why stock boots are less expensive.  Less manpower and knowledge is needed.

In customs, I think it depends on whether your foot oddity would leave an impression.  For example, I have a small, soft bump over both arches.  It doesn't make an impression in the mold, but since I went to the shop for measuring, Don (like Bill before him) made a notation on my page in the book.  My bigger issue is always my high arches.

[Isk8NYC]

I really think that imaging and knowledge-based systems could revolutionize skating boots.  Imagine images of your feet being used by a computer to match your profile and measurements with the correct type of boot for your feet.  For example, a skater with a narrow width but even more narrow heel width, accompanied by heel bumps from their current skates.  Right now, a good fitter can look at that and say "You should try (brand) skates.  We can order a split-width for a little extra cost and have them fit you like customs."  Wouldn't it be great if an online service could capture that knowledge and make it accessible to everyone?

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but Dr. Scholls has a step-on scale-like thing in some Walmarts that ask a few questions, evaluate your stride while walking in place, and then recommends one of their pricey insoles to solve your foot pain problems.  It was similar to what my podiatrist did for my first pair of orthotics, but I didn't buy the Dr. Scholls.  I need new orthotics, so I might give it a try.  I wonder if that technology could be adapted for figure skates?

[jjane45]

Thanks a lot for your feedback, Isk8NYC! Very helpful as I've never ordered custom and am just throwing ideas and speculations out there. Yeah technology is king, maybe a universal sizing standard could be adapted at some point!

Since figure skating is still in the dark age for the time being, I think maybe for stock boots, "remote mold fitting" can be optional with a reasonable fee if boots are purchased, or more expensive as a standalone service (like discounted eye exams if you buy eye glasses). Anything that's cheaper than taking work days off and drive / fly long distance, OR less than the custom-stock differential, as long as it works

The unnoticeable oddities will hopefully get reflected in a good survey somehow... that's a major shortcoming for sure. And I am most curious how much does a working mold cost?

[Skittl1321]

Right now, a good fitter can look at that and say "You should try (brand) skates.  We can order a split-width for a little extra cost and have them fit you like customs."  Wouldn't it be great if an online service could capture that knowledge and make it accessible to everyone?

There is a woman on Ballet Talk for Dancers who does this for pointe shoe fittings.  You fill out a questionaire, take pictures from like 8 angles, and submit tracings.  She comes back with 5 brands/models that might be worth trying, and the size she thinks you might wear in each brand.  It is truly invaluable for dancers looking for new pointe shoes (as they can be even more problematic than boots, since you really have to get the toe profile right).

So really we just need someone who can be an expert, who can catalog all this knowledge and offer the service.

[jjane45]

What about subsequent adjustments, when skater is somehow not happy but can't explain it well? Live video call or upload video to observe how the skater walks or (gasp) skates?!

[irenar5]

There is a woman on Ballet Talk for Dancers who does this for pointe shoe fittings.  You fill out a questionaire, take pictures from like 8 angles, and submit tracings.  She comes back with 5 brands/models that might be worth trying, and the size she thinks you might wear in each brand.  It is truly invaluable for dancers looking for new pointe shoes (as they can be even more problematic than boots, since you really have to get the toe profile right).

Wow, I did not even realize pointe shoes could be different!   

[blue111moon]

Because my feet are radically different from each other (thanks to a bunch of surgeries of the right one), Wil at Klingbeil told me that he'd molded the soles of my boots to fit the casts they made from the foam molds.  The insoles just cover and pad the soles.  I have the plaster casts and even I can see how different my feet are.   So I don't think they made them just from the measurements Don took - although there were a lot of them.

[Sk8tmum]

Harlicks doesn't use the foam molds at all; they indicate that there is too much room for error (feet wiggling, foam crumbling, unequal pressure .... ). 

[Skate@Delaware]

I was at Klingbeils yesterday while my friend was getting fitted for boots. It was a very detailed process.  My coach had her boots re-lined and new blades mounted and he was able to adjust minor fit, and checked everything by looking at how she stood in her boots. It was pretty cool. 

I would imagine the most accurate way to get the best (most accurate fit) would be sticking your feet into a 3-D scanner (or other external imaging device) and letting it have a go, and a 3-D printer carving a boot last from that. Then the boot maker would be able to utilize that. That might be more accurate than taking some measurements and tracing around your feet. 

[platyhiker]

Some online shops ask for photos of your feet if you want them to recommend a brand/model, along with a short survey of size, weight, skating level, discipline, etc.

This sounds very interesting!  Do you recall the names or URLs of any of those online shops?

Thanks,
Cindy

[Robin]

When visiting a boot fitter is extremely expensive,  is there a way to send them something more than mere measurement numbers?

suppose there is a DIY boot fitting kit like a walking cast, that makes a mold of both feet similar to dental molds, skater walks in them before mold forms permanently so fitter can tell of possible pronation or other relevant walking habits. skater then sends in the mold along with a completed survey like height, weight, skating level and whatever a fitter is interested in.

if feasible and executed properly, do you think this process can effectively replace a long trip to out of state fitters? What are the shortcomings? Stock boots only or custom can work this way too?

Just google Klingbeil skates, call them up, and ask them.

[jjane45]

Just google Klingbeil skates, call them up, and ask them.

ETA: mobile browser ate my post lol.

The presumption is skater cannot easily visit the fitter in person. I thought Klingbeil does want the skater to be physically present, mold or no mold?

So really we just need someone who can be an expert, who can catalog all this knowledge and offer the service.

Right, we can dream!

I would imagine the most accurate way to get the best (most accurate fit) would be sticking your feet into a 3-D scanner (or other external imaging device) and letting it have a go, and a 3-D printer carving a boot last from that.

Would that also note pronations etc?

I don't know if it's accurate or not, but Dr. Scholls has a step-on scale-like thing in some Walmarts that ask a few questions, evaluate your stride while walking in place, and then recommends one of their pricey insoles to solve your foot pain problems.  It was similar to what my podiatrist did for my first pair of orthotics, but I didn't buy the Dr. Scholls.  I need new orthotics, so I might give it a try.  I wonder if that technology could be adapted for figure skates?

Definitely sounds like a good direction!