Since there will be no more Klings...

[rosereedy]

I will be needing to buy skates in the coming months. I love the cushion inside the Klings but not sure what other brand provides that comfort. Thought about SP Teri customs but looks they are way more expensive than Klings and not sure about the cushion inside. Jackson's just seem cheap to me. I know they are good boots but the quality just doesn't seem all that great. I've seen so many skaters in them but I'm not sold yet. Harlick don't fit me and neither do Riedell. Guess my only choice is Jackson. Do all of them have that little name plate on the back? I hate that. Any other ideas for brands?

[sarahspins]

You can pry the name plate off the Jacksons if you really wanted to.  Personally I'm super happy with my Jacksons.. I skate in the Elite Plus (3300) and those boots definitely do not seem as "cheap" as some of the lower end models do.. they are well padded and were relatively easy to break in (compared to what I recall of breaking in my SP Teri's).  They may be slightly stiffer than I need, but I also have a pair of Premiere's and I actually don't think they're stiff enough for how I skate if I were to jump a lot in them, but I do think they very nice boots for the price.  When I need boots again (might be soon depending on if I opt to send mine in for new tongues or just order a new pair) I'll be looking at the Elite Supreme (3900) probably in the 80 stiffness.

I've skated in SP Teri's in the past (stock and custom) as well as Risport (those were my first "real" skates), Klingbeil (used) and Harlick (also used).  I like the Jacksons much better than anything else I've skated in.

[rosereedy]

You can pry the name plate off the Jacksons if you really wanted to.  Personally I'm super happy with my Jacksons.. I skate in the Elite Plus (3300) and those boots definitely do not seem as "cheap" as some of the lower end models do.. they are well padded and were relatively easy to break in (compared to what I recall of breaking in my SP Teri's).  They may be slightly stiffer than I need, but I also have a pair of Premiere's and I actually don't think they're stiff enough for how I skate if I were to jump a lot in them, but I do think they very nice boots for the price.  When I need boots again (might be soon depending on if I opt to send mine in for new tongues or just order a new pair) I'll be looking at the Elite Supreme (3900) probably in the 80 stiffness.

I've skated in SP Teri's in the past (stock and custom) as well as Risport (those were my first "real" skates), Klingbeil (used) and Harlick (also used).  I like the Jacksons much better than anything else I've skated in.

Thanks. This is a good thing to hear. I am thinking either 3300 or 3900 as well. My coach is leaving the decision up to me. Ugh, why oh why does Klingbeil have to go away?!

[Sk8tmum]

It's all in what fits you, I would think.  Jacksons do not fit our skater's feet - it was a significant problem and ended up in tendinitis that still haunts us now. Riedells fit 2 of my kids perfectly.  Wifa wasn't bad ... never tried Harlicks or SpTeri.  Seeing as I'm going to have to switch our Kling skater into something else ... I think that our line of attack is to go in to our fitter and simply try everything on.  Bigger problem is that the skates were really unique; Klingbeil built some interesting stuff in so that we were in some ways underbooted but in other ways correctly booted.  I must admit, it will be nice to see how it feels to get lighter boots on this kid; the Klings were quite heavy.

However, in terms of the Jacksons: I haven't heard anything good about any Jacksons above the Freestyle in a long time.  The complaints seem to be coming thick and fast since the Competitors were eliminated; the Elites and the Premieres are reportedly simply too stiff and too "clunky".  Riedell has taken over the market out here ... very quickly. There does seem to be a resurgence in Risports, though.

[sarahspins]

I am thinking either 3300 or 3900 as well. My coach is leaving the decision up to me. Ugh, why oh why does Klingbeil have to go away?!

I don't know if it helps you at all but the only reason I am looking at the 3900 is because of the different tongues from the 3300.  I'm allergic to latex, so the foam on the 3300's is bad news for me (I removed the foam from mine and glued in shearling), but my split width and a different tongue lining is considered a semi-custom by Jackson and is subject to a MUCH higher fee than either of those changes alone would be.  It makes the 3900 with just one fee for the required split width come out a little bit cheaper than having the changes done to the 3300.  I need some clarification from Jackson on what kind of foam is really in the tongues, but if it's the same sort of memory foam like the Premiere's I know it will be fine.

since the Competitors were eliminated; the Elites and the Premieres are reportedly simply too stiff and too "clunky".

While I don't disagree that there is a bit of a "gap" in the line now, for a skater requiring the stiffness of the higher level boots, they are good boots.  There are quite a lot of high level skaters in Jackson these days... even skaters who were formerly big endorsers for other brands.  Mirai Nagasu (SP Teri) and Jeremy Abbot (I think Reidell?) both switched this season... I am sure there are others as well.

[Isk8NYC]

The complaints seem to be coming thick and fast since the Competitors were eliminated <snip>

I bought Competitors over the summer and they are more stiff than the Freestyles.  It took me several weeks to break them in and to be honest, I don't like them that much.  They come up too high above my ankle, so I leave the top hook undone.  I feel like they're very "deep" for my foot, which could be a sizing issue - I haven't worn stock skates in years.  My Klingbeils were always customs.  The heel pocket is very strange and the foam has to be warmed up before my heel can be seated all the way back.  It takes me FOREVER to lace up, otherwise I have to retie after 10 minutes because my heel is slipping all over the place.

I guess I should have gone with the Elites, but given my lack of regular skating, I figured the break-in period would be really long.

I'm stumped as to what my next boots will be - I wore Riedells years and years ago and went through a pair every six months.  Today's Riedells are much more sturdy, so I might give them another shot, but Harlicks and SP-Teris are tempting.  Hopefully, I have time before I need new skates.

[irenar5]

Jacksons do not fit our skater's feet - it was a significant problem and ended up in tendinitis that still haunts us now.

How does one determine that skate boots don't fit?  What do you look for?  I know heel lift or improper width are some of the issues.  But how do you know it is the boots that contributed to an injury as opposed to overtraining, improper technique, etc?

[Sk8tmum]

How does one determine that skate boots don't fit?  What do you look for?  I know heel lift or improper width are some of the issues.  But how do you know it is the boots that contributed to an injury as opposed to overtraining, improper technique, etc?

Okay.  We found out the tendinitis was caused by the misfitting skates; the heel was too wide, so the heel was sliding up and hitting the back of the heel cup. Our physiotherapist identified the issue, and a change in boots resolved it (plus a lot of expensive physio) - but there is still some lingering issue there.  Now, part of the problem was a design flaw with the Jacksons - when they were fitted, the width was pretty much okay, but, over time, the heel cup opened up more, and there we were. This was back when we were at the lower end of boots ... they were Freestyles - and we weren't where we are now in terms of budget. Part of why we ended up in customs was because of the lingering botherment of the tendinitis.

Our physio is a rather good one, highly respected, very professional and very reputable, who works with a lot of figure skaters.

In terms of knowing if they fit ... we're blessed with a store that has fitters who know what they are doing and who aren't fixated on any particular brand. They also, if a boot doesn't work out, take them back and refit you. 

[Skate@Delaware]

This is the benefit of having a good boot person to go to-you can have your boots readjusted as the season/year progresses and the boot breaks in.  I need to have two areas punched out to accommodate a bony area and a bunion; and have the heel cup squeezed in a bit. I've lost a bit of weight and it shows up in my feet (plus, the padding gets compressed as time goes on). I was in Competitors and loved them, tried the Elites and was like-meh, they were ok. I'm in Premieres and they are awesome-just right for my level.

Boot fitting, unfortunately, isn't an exact science. It does take trial and error, which is expensive. A good fitter (i.e. one with years of experience with different brands) can help you but the best way is to skate in a boot and see how it feels. Once you find a brand that fits-stick with it.

[Query]

How does one determine that skate boots don't fit?

My expert says people want many different types of boot fits.

Not everyone agrees, but I still think comfort is the main thing - because most bad things are uncomfortable. And I really believe that for most people, nothing about using the boot should ever hurt, in any of the foot/body positions you use while skating.

One of the biggest things is the ball of your feet, since the boot has to be too rigid to bend like a shoe. Most people are able to skate better if the ball is bent in a certain way. If the foot bed bends your foot too much, too little, or in the wrong spot, it can cause lots of foot health and comfort problems, and may make skating harder. That also means the distance from the heel to the ball is much more important than the total length of the boot, as long as your toes aren't jammed.

[sarahspins]

I feel like they're very "deep" for my foot, which could be a sizing issue

It may be, but I was actually talking to another skater recently and the deeper heel pocket in the Jacksons is one of the things I like.. and that actually has nothing to do with where the boots come to over my ankle, but I always had rubbing where my achilles attaches to the back of my heel and it was constantly irritated in SP Teri's, even my customs (which had extra padding throughout the ankle areas since I'd recently had surgery to correct an ankle problem caused by my prior pair of stock boots, which I think helped a little, but it still points out that the heel cup isn't a very good shape for my feet).  I never had heel slipping in my SP Teri's (I believe I was always fit too narrow though - even win my customs), but it was just pressure on the back of my heel (particularly with deep ankle bends).

I don't get that pressure at all in my Jacksons, and because I have a split width I don't get any heel slipping either.  It might be a different story if I'd gone with a stock width to match my ball width, but it's kind of obvious looking at my feet that they are much wider at the ball than the heel.  For someone else though, with a differently shaped heel, the Jacksons may very well be as much of a problem for them as the SP Teri's were for me.  I toughed it out because compared to what was available locally (Reidell and Harlick) it was the better of the options available to me.  At the time no one locally wore Jacksons at all and there were a few skaters who traveled a couple of hours away to be fitted in Risports (which I had done for my first pair because that's where my dad lived and he paid for them, but I was told my feet were "too wide" for risports by our local fitter later on) but for the most part everyone wore either SP Teri or Harlick, and it seemed like only LTS skaters wore Reidell (which has changed, now most skaters locally wear Reidell until they reach higher FS levels).

I agree that fit is a lot of trial and error - it's not just getting fit right, but being able to identify problem areas BEFORE they become bigger problems.  As an adult I know it makes more sense to cut my losses and buy another pair of boots than to potentially deal with the consequences if I am having problems with my boots.  Boots are much cheaper than my insurance deductible

I am also pickier about boot fit with my kids than I think my parents were with me... my daughter's feet are miniature versions of mine and she will probably need a split width when she gets into freestyle levels... for now if her heels are slipping it doesn't seem to be a problem for her, or at least she isn't complaining about it, but as she progresses, it's definitely something I will be watching for.

[fsk8r]

Just to add a couple of other brands into the mix to consider - Risport RF2 and RF3 are tough boots and will stand up to some heavy impact jumping. The RF3s are probably comparable to the Jackson Elite.
The other brand to consider is Graf. The Richmond and Edmonton Special are both very good boots.
However they might be slightly harder to get hold of (although you might be able to get them ordered in specially as most of the distributors can get hold of the different brands).
However both brands are only any good if your feet fit the boots.

[Rachelsk8s]

I know that this has already been said, but the skate brand really depends upon your feet.  I wear Jacksons, and I love them.  In fact I don't really see myself switching brands anytime soon.  I have also skated in other brands as well, but Jacksons definitely fit my feet the best.  I have the Elites and they are made well, I am pretty rough on my skates and they are at this point, no where near to being broken down.  But that's my opinion:) I have never skated in Klingbeils although I know people who do and love them.  I guess it really depends upon what boot fits your feet best

[Sk8Dreams]

Don't forget Edea boots.  Because the exterior shape can be altered with heat they are, for all practical purposes, custom fitted.  Problems with them are primarily finding someone who knows how to mount blades and adjust the boots, and the fact that the soles, both out and in, are quite thin, and so have little padding and almost no insulation.  I put my Klingbeil insoles into my Edeas and that helped a lot.  I think I'm going to buy foam and pad the undersides of my SuperFeet orthotic insoles.  Still, the Klingbeils were the most comfortable boots I've ever worn, and I mourn their passing.

[rosereedy]

I hate change but I have no choice. I am thinking SP Teri customs might be the best choice for me right now. I have strange shaped feet and most stock won't work. Too many lumps and bumps that get aggravated. We shall see. So nervous about it.

[PrettySk8Dress]

Personally I'm super happy with my Jacksons.. I skate in the Elite Plus (3300) and those boots definitely do not seem as "cheap" as some of the lower end models do.. they are well padded and were relatively easy to break in (compared to what I recall of breaking in my SP Teri's). 

I've skated in SP Teri's in the past (stock and custom) as well as Risport (those were my first "real" skates), Klingbeil (used) and Harlick (also used).  I like the Jacksons much better than anything else I've skated in.

In the past I also have skated in Reidells and SP Teri Super Teri's, but I also like my Jackson Elite Plus skates much better than anything else that I've skated in. It took a while for them to break-in, but now they are the best fitting boots ever, period !

[Bunny Hop]

I guess it really depends upon what boot fits your feet best

Agreed, and as a corollary not to get too hung up on what other people say about how different brands fit. Traditional wisdom would indicate that my wide feet should not suit Reidells, yet I find them perfectly comfortable, and a huge improvement over my previous brand (Gam). So someone saying a particular brand runs narrow or wide or whatever else shouldn't necessary influence your choice.

My problem is going to be that when I next need new boots (still a long way off) I don't know what type of Reidells I'm meant to get, as there doesn't seem to be an equivalent to the old Gold Medallion in Reidell's new range.

[rosereedy]

I was just seeing what people liked and why, for the most part.  I used to skate in SP Teri Super Teri Deluxe before moving on to Klings.  Since then, I've heard SP Teri have changed a lot and more padding inside than they used to.  They used to be very hard inside and no padding therefore making them very uncomfy.  But the down side is that I had to wear a lot of blister pads because the knots and bumps I have on my feet would get sore.  Once moving over to customs, not once did I have to wear the pads because Klingbeil made the skates according to the ugly bumps.  Plus that one toe longer kind of throws a wrench in stocks.  They might fit everywhere but be too long or too short.  I even have the trouble with regular shoes.  Almost like I am between 7 1/2 and 8.  But one is too small and one is too big.  I am spending that much money, I want a correct and comfortable fit.

[Skate@Delaware]

Don't forget Edea boots.  Because the exterior shape can be altered with heat they are, for all practical purposes, custom fitted.  Problems with them are primarily finding someone who knows how to mount blades and adjust the boots, and the fact that the soles, both out and in, are quite thin, and so have little padding and almost no insulation.  I put my Klingbeil insoles into my Edeas and that helped a lot.  I think I'm going to buy foam and pad the undersides of my SuperFeet orthotic insoles.  Still, the Klingbeils were the most comfortable boots I've ever worn, and I mourn their passing.

MF at U of Delaware Pro shop sells Edea boots. I was looking into these but decided to stick with Jacksons.  Edea are becoming popular with the U of De crowd though.

[Sk8tmum]

Actually, an interesting thought: what "other boots" are most similar to Klings?  Klings have a different heel height than other skates ... and they have of course the Kling last.  Which other manufacturer makes boots most similar to the Kling design?

[retired]

Jackson customs will do anything you want.

[Sk8tmum]

riedell customs will as well; we have already verified that.  I was more thinking of stock boots ...

[Sk8Dreams]

Actually, an interesting thought: what "other boots" are most similar to Klings?  Klings have a different heel height than other skates ... and they have of course the Kling last.  Which other manufacturer makes boots most similar to the Kling design?

Klingbeil did any heel height you wanted in your customs.

[Sk8tmum]

True, but, they had a basic Klingbeil heel height which was lower than other skates.   We just went with that as one of our coach's reasons for preferring them was the lower heel. Also, not all of the Kling wearers wore/wear custom .... there are those who wore/wear stock.

[fsk8r]

Don't know about the Klingbeil heel height, but Grafs are lower than Jackson.
Ask nicely and I'll get the ruler out at home and measure them both.