Ice show: boys and adults

[jjane45]

Like it or not, boys and adults are minorities in ice shows. I was however accustomed to their presence, albeit small.

This weekend I attended a show at a smaller rink. To my surprise, they had zero adults and zero figure skating boys in the whole show. Well there was a hockey boy number, with one single hockey boy in it who cannot do crossovers, trying desperately to chase a figure skater skating. Maybe she was there to make the number look more entertaining, but I feel terrible for the hockey boy.

I really hope more hockey boys could be recruited to make a meaningful hockey boy number. What was out there will only turn away the prospective participants. It looked like a joke, seriously. I also don't believe the rink has zero adults or boys in the figure skating program. Maybe the number is so small they are discouraged from participating? (I should have asked!)

So, how is the situation at your rink / club's ice show with figure skating boys, adults, hockey, or speed skaters?

[jumpingbeansmom]

We are having a LTS and club open house, and we are having figure skaters and speed skating demonstrations--  and yes, there is a boy in the figure skating crowd, but we too have very very few.

[FigureSpins]

We have at least six boys and probably6-8 men who figure skate along with over a dozen adult women skaters.  Our rink puts on the Nutcracker every December.  The boys usually get to perform the same solo role for both performances, whereas the girls' parts have two different casts.  The men usually choose to skate in the adult group number, although there is one semi-solo part that someone gets pressed into taking.   The only hockey skaters are in low-level LTS groups during the show.  As soon as they can get a stick in their hands, they aren't interested in figure skating shows or competitions.  The adult ladies occasionally have one person do a solo, but most of the skaters beg off or perform in the adult group number.

[Sierra]

In our last ice show we had a hockey number with the little wee hockey kids in it (Learn to Play). We also had a figure skater boy who skated a number with 5 girls- they all did the same thing, spins, axels, and such. And we had an adult synchro number, albeit only 4 make up the team, but nonetheless.

I've only ever seen 2 figure skating boys here.

[Skittl1321]

The last fancy ice show I went to had a fair number of boys represented.
First, the guest skater was male, he did two solo numbers, but also randomly joined in on the "Lady Gaga" number- because who can resist that.
Then, we had two pairs teams (low level, and junior), the junior man also skated a solo, and in a few of the higher level group numbers.
Then, in the group numbers there were two other elite level men, one of whom is technically an adult, though he's been with the club since he was a kid.
And in the LTS group it seemed to be about 1/3 children.

As for adults, there was an adult ice dance number.  This was mostly LTS level adult skaters, but also two college students who skated as children (since it was a "social dance" sort of thing, they nearly lapped one couple...) and an adult Gold male.  Then a coach did a Sonia Henie style number following the ice dance (which was themed to her time period), so that's technically an adult. 
The Adult Gold male also had a feature number, but not a solo.


The last low budget club show I saw (I was in) had about 1/4 of the LTS students who were boys. 
Had 3 mid-level boys who did solos, group numbers, and duets (not pairs). 
Had no adult men, but 2 adults - one a 'grandmother', one a younger adult (me, almost 30).



We don't have hockey kids participating in these shows.

[Nate]

I avoid the shows here.  Registered with the club t test buy not renewing until I need yo test again. It expires next month.  That way they can't pressure me into doing it.

Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

[Skittl1321]

I only join USFS on years that I need to (test, this year to compete).  It's too expensive otherwise.

The out of club fee for the low-rent shows is only $10, so I still skate.  The other club is much more expensive, which is why I didn't skate with them this year (although the "ice dance" number wasn't expensive. I just didn't want to make the drive for rehearsals)

[jjane45]

We have at least six boys and probably6-8 men who figure skate along with over a dozen adult women skaters.  Our rink puts on the Nutcracker every December.  The boys usually get to perform the same solo role for both performances, whereas the girls' parts have two different casts.  The men usually choose to skate in the adult group number, although there is one semi-solo part that someone gets pressed into taking.   The only hockey skaters are in low-level LTS groups during the show.  As soon as they can get a stick in their hands, they aren't interested in figure skating shows or competitions.  The adult ladies occasionally have one person do a solo, but most of the skaters beg off or perform in the adult group number.

Speaking of competitive audition process, I know for sure that adults are held to much lower technical threshold at our shows, not that many of us are working on axels.

Not sure about boys vs girls though. Our nutcracker nephew role is competitive, but mouse king is often a girl. (the nutcracker prince was another story, one year a coach had to fill in...) The recent spring show had 3 adult soloists but just one boy solo. Maybe our high level boys tend to skate just the group numbers.

[sk8dsmom]

My issue with shows is generally the person in charge of costumes want to make the boy(s) wear the same fabric as the girls which is a 'no no' in my books.  Using it as accent trim is fine.   (Our club has taken to making the costumes vs rentals because of the cost involved and missing rentals afterwards). 

I feel that boys should stand out and not blend in with the girls in shows. 

My DS nearly bailed out on the show 2 years ago and I put my foot down this season.

Show size this past season including guest skaters was > 400 skaters from preschool up to National level competitive guest skaters.  Many learn to skate boys but not many in figures and less in the test / competitive stream (only 3 right now), although there are a few in figures that should move up in another year or two if they stick around long enough.

[jjane45]

The How early is too early thread made me see more differences among rinks / clubs.

I was shocked that adult skaters would worry they are not welcome to skate ice show solos, that a child of similar skill level may be favored in the selection process. Even if these adult skaters are already coaching LTS!

So how do formal soloist selection rules encourage or discourage adult skaters at your rink / club? Mine is lenient: the minimum technical requirement is lower for adults than youth, not unlike an affirmative action.

Any local rink / club show specifically "outlaws" adult soloists? I think the only way for it to happen is to apply the exact same rules to all ages, and at elite training centers this would raise the technical bar very high. But strongly preferring children to (underrepresented) adults while everything else being equal is plain discrimination IMO.

And the boys. I suppose they are more likely affected by unspoken customs and lack of choices than policies. My rinks lumps all freestyle boys together for the show group number, and I felt terrible for the lone FS1 boy desperate to catch up with FS5+ skaters, the faster skaters noticeably held back yet still not slow enough.

[Clarice]

I direct the shows at my rink, and these are the policies we've adopted.

The learn-to-skate skaters are put into group numbers, divided by level/age.
All club skaters are entitled to be in a group number and a "feature" number.  Features are defined as solos, duets, or trios.  You cannot have both a solo and a duet/trio.
In order to have a solo, you must have passed at least the Pre-Preliminary or Pre-Bronze free skate test.
Music length matches the requirements for National Showcase.

This generally works pretty well.  Adults seldom sign up for solos, but if they do they get them same as the kids.  Boys are assigned to group numbers the same as the girls - we don't usually have an all-boy group, although that could happen if it fit the show theme particularly well.  We usually do have an all-adult group.  Just because you're entitled to a solo doesn't mean you have to have it - sometimes the older girls elect to do duets or trios instead. 

[Skate@Delaware]

We have two boys (under age 10) and usually two men that skate in our shows-more if we get "guest skaters" from another club/rink.  The boys are pairs-in-training which is nice. The adults are ice dancers.

For our last show, we had a number that was comprised of adult skaters-no kids at all! It was beautiful!  You can be in a group number but be singled out for a "spotlight" where your choreography is different than the others.  For a solo event, you have to have tested (I'm not sure the requirements) and audition.  That's to make sure the number will be "show-worthy" for the audience. This is the same for kids & adults.

[jjane45]

It's holiday season again! (almost)

Our rink just announced the nutcracker solos, I'm surprised how few boys auditioned (compared to the number attending practices) and that the "new generation" got selected for nutcracker prince - they were little boys not long ago! TBA for nephew and Fritz, ouch. Apparently older boys who technically qualify to audition grew out of the young boy rules but are not interested in the prince role? The mouse king is played by girls, maybe we'll consider nieces instead of nephews this year?

No change for the number of adult soloists, but I expect a bigger adult group number. The adult LTS class has been going very well and I've been really nagging people to join the show   they are giving good parts to adult soloists which I appreciate!

[JSM]

Perhaps more adults stay away from shows due to time constraints?  With limited practice and lesson time, getting new music, which requires a lot of time for choreography and practice, takes away from learning new elements and preparing competitive programs.

My coach wanted me to perform in shows last year around the holiday season (I, like many skaters, let nerves get the best of me) to get experience in front of an audience, but all of the local shows were themed and I couldn't use my current program.  We thought it would be a better use of my time just to practice what I had!

[TreSk8sAZ]

I didn't see this thread last year, but I skate at 2 rinks - one does a summer show, one a holiday show. The rink with the summer show always has a low-level boys group, then the other boys are in their group and/or solos based on what level of competition they reached (Jr. National, Regional, National, Sectional). That doesn't even include the pairs boys. There is also always an adult group number.

The holiday show rink has a fair number of boys. It's more of a LTS show with higher level skaters doing groups as well. I know there is always an adult number, and some have done solos.

My problem with the shows (and I believe many other adults as well) is that they require time and money. First, you have to attend practices, usually weekly. Second, there is a fee to be in the show, a fee for costumes if you have a solo, and possibly a fee for costumes for the groups. Plus any additional pieces you have to buy (like everyone must wear the same tights, etc). When I can't even afford weekly lessons, that money could go to competition entry fees, my coach or more ice time. I think it would be fun, but there's really just no way.

[Kitten23]

At my rink, we have a few (maybe 10) boys who skate freestyle.  While I haven't been to an ice show at my rink in years (got into a fight with a parent after her daughter kept kicking me in the back.  She told me to "get over it".) I did notice that there were several boys.  Adults are apparently not permitted to participate in the holiday shows here.  I asked last year and was actually laughed at.   

[jjane45]

Adults are apparently not permitted to participate in the holiday shows here.  I asked last year and was actually laughed at.   

What did they say? Is there a clear cut technical requirement for participating in the show?
Are we talking about solos or group numbers?

[VAsk8r]

We have all of three boys under 18 in our club, who are at widely varying levels, but we're a small club. We also had two men, but they don't skate much anymore. Since we're a small club, I think it works out that about 15 percent of our skaters are boys or men.

As for adults, I'm now pretty much the only adult in our club who skates at our home rink more than once every two weeks. The others have either cut way back on skating or go to another rink because our freestyles don't work for their schedules.

We'd always done an adult group number in the holiday show, but I don't see that happening this year. I'd like to do the show, but I don't want to do a solo, and I'm not sure if there will be any place for me in a group number.

[nicklaszlo]

everyone must wear the same tights

Does that actually happen?

[Clarice]

Does that actually happen?

Yes.  We don't bother for club shows, but when we've done performances with our local symphony we made everybody buy new tights so they'd match.  It's pretty standard for synchro teams to do that, too.  Different manufacturer's shades of tan can look quite different from each other, and old tights that have been washed a bunch of times look quite different from new ones, even from the same manufacturer.

[Kitten23]

What did they say? Is there a clear cut technical requirement for participating in the show?
Are we talking about solos or group numbers?

I asked about both a group number and solos.  I should mention that I wasn't asking about me doing a solo, but a former competitor who was going to Adult Nationals as Master Senior Ladies.  After asking if adults could participate, was there a technical requirement, what about a group number, etc, I was told that there were no adults in the show because they simply are "never that good".  I pointed out the Master Senior Ladies competitor and was told, "no". 

Haven't gone to  one of the shows since.

[TreSk8sAZ]

Does that actually happen?

Yes, absolutely, for exactly the reasons Clarice said. You want everyone to look uniform, so tights of a specific brand and style are required. Same with certain hairstyles and such. They are just part of the costume.

[jjane45]

Yes.  We don't bother for club shows, but when we've done performances with our local symphony we made everybody buy new tights so they'd match.  It's pretty standard for synchro teams to do that, too. 

Different standards for different occasions I guess. Community shows are more about fun and participation, our lower level kids can even wear brown rental skates and use boot covers made from socks. I still wear the same OTB rights from my first show, and although they have been carefully maintained, there are signs of wear. Requiring specific new tights would discourage quite a few from participating, especially if they do not test or compete.

Perhaps more adults stay away from shows due to time constraints?  With limited practice and lesson time, getting new music, which requires a lot of time for choreography and practice, takes away from learning new elements and preparing competitive programs.

for me, the total costs for a solo (plus choreo lessons) and the group number (mandatory for soloists) are lower than group lesson over the same period. Since there are no group lessons during the rehearsal weeks, it sort of makes sense to direct the resources toward the show and have fun with rink friends whom I don't usually see in practices or classes.

I was told that there were no adults in the show because they simply are "never that good".  I pointed out the Master Senior Ladies competitor and was told, "no". Haven't gone to  one of the shows since.

Kitten23, I'm speechless about the way they handled enthusiastic adult skaters, strictly based on age and prejudice. Do they have tots in the show? What about beta and gamma / basic skills skaters?

[turnip]

I'm heavily involved this year in my rinks show, and we have four or five adults doing it, and a handful of boys. One of whom has already dropped out due to teasing from hockey boys (I think he was originally doing hockey and figure). For the first time, we have only group numbers. Everyone is in the same amount of numbers and no solos. We didn't have auditions, we just had a registration day where the skaters came along and got put into their groups based on ability and test level.

[jjane45]

At a quick glance I am counting a total of 5 underage boys in our Nutcracker. To me the problem seems to be 1) finding younger boys FS4+ to fill the character roles - Fritz is hopefully comparable in size as young Clara, or at least not bigger than the parents; and 2) finding a high level guy to fill the prince role, who is old enough to look aesthetically pleasant with dream Clara (usually an accomplished teen) and has not got tired of doing it year after year. I do look forward to this year's new pairings!